could you please sell me on Jaco?

[JimK]

+1 Sometimes ppl just don't know. I've read more than a few threads here where ppl were shocked that someone doesn't know who the Beatles, Hendrix,... were.

Some comedian (IIRC) said he ditched a girl because she thought Wings was McCartney's 1st band.

 

[MtManiac]

It depends on the kind of music you enjoy yourself with ... if you like death metal then I may say that Jaco is not the bass player for you most likely ...

I like death metal, and I like Jaco.

 

[MtManiac]

This seems like a pretty back-handed response. In the same breath you deliver the "to each his own" sentiment and what appears to be a dig at the knowledge/skill/musicianship of anyone who doesn't like one of your heroes.

Jaco was a very technically gifted and cutting edge player, especially in the context of that time period. On the other hand, I don't see why "his genius is not up for debate". My primary bass teacher growing up was a huge Jaco fan, and he wore his influences on his sleeve given the proper musical context. He turned me on to a variety of Jaco tunes, too. Fortunately, he never made it a deal-breaker for me as a musician, in the sense that he was not adamant that I had to study, cop, or even enjoy Jaco's work. I appreciate that even more in retrospect than I did at the time.

I think one of the unfortunate and tangential pieces of baggage that comes with Jaco is that many bass players give you the nod if you simply say that you like or love him, and some of those same players will disregard someone as an unenlightened hack if they don't revel in the music/"genius" of Jaco. I also think that Jaco (much like Jamerson) is one of those heavily exaggerated "influences" cited by lots of players. I believe that tons of bass players enjoy, listen to, and even study some of Jaco's work. I also hear players citing Jaco as a big influence, when their playing and approach does not seem influenced by him in the least. I know that's a different thread and can-of-worms, but it always comes to mind when I see certain names discussed.

Ok. I thought it was pretty plain, but what I was saying is that there are elements of musicianship and artistry that exist beyond preferences. I’m not someone who enjoys listening to Charlie Parker, but I can definitely appreciate and learn from his genius, and I have. For any bass player to say that they can’t appreciate Jaco’s sense of groove - to me - speaks to a huge lack of appreciation for those elements of musicianship and artistry that makes me wonder what music that person thinks grooves. IMHO, YMMV, yaddayaddayadda.

 

[monkeyfinger]

Ok. I thought it was pretty plain, but what I was saying is that there are elements of musicianship and artistry that exist beyond preferences. I’m not someone who enjoys listening to Charlie Parker, but I can definitely appreciate and learn from his genius, and I have. For any bass player to say that they can’t appreciate Jaco’s sense of groove - to me - speaks to a huge lack of appreciation for those elements of musicianship and artistry that makes me wonder what music that person thinks grooves. IMHO, YMMV, yaddayaddayadda.

That's sort of like me when it comes to Ornette Coleman. It's certainly difficult listening for the uninitiated, but spending some time with it helped me appreciate what avante garde jazz is doing. Is it on my playlist now? Nope. But I still appreciate the time I spent with it.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

Jaco was the Henry Ford of bass: He innovatived techniques, ideas and processes that everyone else copied.

 

[monkeyfinger]

[MODERATOR NOTE]:
This thread is moving towards getting closed. You don't like Jaco? Fine. State your reasons and move on. Saying he, or any bass player for that matter, stinks, sucks, or smells is just trolling. Cut that out or I will close the thread and pass out tickets.

 

[matthewbrown]

I can hear two measures and know it's Jaco. Same with Miles, Trane, Parker, Cannonball, Metheny, Scofield, Armstrong, Haden, Hendrix, Vaughan, and many others. JACO HAD A UNIQUE VOICE. That's why I regret trying to sound like him, except that it was ...educational.

 

[mobdirt]

he has probably influenced every bass player whether you acknowledge the fact or not
he has probably influenced a bass player who has influenced you, if not directly

 

[Grahams Groove]

Ok. I thought it was pretty plain, but what I was saying is that there are elements of musicianship and artistry that exist beyond preferences. I’m not someone who enjoys listening to Charlie Parker, but I can definitely appreciate and learn from his genius, and I have. For any bass player to say that they can’t appreciate Jaco’s sense of groove - to me - speaks to a huge lack of appreciation for those elements of musicianship and artistry that makes me wonder what music that person thinks grooves. IMHO, YMMV, yaddayaddayadda.

Very fair, and good clarification. I think there's probably a large area where we are both in agreement here. I think the level of his virtuosity and "genius" is certainly debatable. But anyone saying he was average or mediocre (or less) is speaking of their musical preferences, not his technical proficiency. I'm not someone who would want to play in the specific style that Jaco did, as much of his music impresses but doesn't "move" me. That said, I would gladly trade my limited talents and knowledge for his familiarity and mastery of the bass. Maybe that's where the divide is here. It's not really a question of whether or not he had phenomenal talent, rather it's people debating about the musical context in which he used that talent...

 

[AaronVonRock]

Big takeaway from this thread: Some people really like Jaco and some people don't.

 

[gitfiddl]

Some comedian (IIRC) said he ditched a girl because she thought Wings was McCartney's 1st band.

I've heard that story too. I also remember on the liner notes of "The Beatles - Live at the Hollywood Bowl" 1977 release, George Martin wrote that his daughter asked him if the Beatles were ever as big as the Bay City Rollers...

As for Jaco, in the early Eighties, he was like a god to me. I was the only jazz-oriented and theory-conscious bassist in the group of high school garage band musicians I hung out with. Every time they'd bring up Geddy Lee or Steve Harris, I'd break out a Jaco or Stanley Clarke record. Hell, I was probably the only bass player in Jacksonville that owned a copy of Jamaaladeen Tacuma's "Show Stopper" or had ever heard of Flarick.

Jaco's style might be an acquired taste for some, but someone has already mentioned Tony Franklin's fretless playing. With all due respect to Mr. Franklin, I don't think he'd have thought of "that sound" without Jaco. I have to say that universally, Jaco was a bigger influence on bass players that most would realize.

And I as I type this, my 26 year old son is playing bass behind me. He's arguably the best dang musician I've ever played with. Jaco ranks really high on his list, too. His high school band played "The Chicken" in high school jazz band. The horn arrangement was more along the lines of Pee Wee Ellis' original, but Hunter nailed the Jaco bass line, much to the chagrin of his director.

 

[monkeyfinger]

I've always loved Jaco's machine gun picking:

 

[Rumbledore]

Ohh puleezzz where did I say:

... you said the music clips did not explain anything?

As a matter of fact, there are MANY instances in this thread that are putting fake words in my mouth, so to speak, which is stupid. This is only my second comment in the entire 14 pages period. let me direct you to my next statement. please stand by.

 

[retslock]

Not sure I get this comment!
feeling it + moved by it = impressed!

I may be impressed by virtuosity but not moved by it. I may hear a simple but soulful part which is not intrinsically impressive but I can be moved by it.
Impressed= intellectual response
Moved= emotional response

 

[retslock]

What aspects of Jaco make him a difficult sell to you? I would assume it's related to the type of music and not the talent? There are artists whom I respect deeply as musicians, even if I would not typically listen to their music. In Jaco's case, I really like his music.

IMHO, I cannot imagine a musician, especially a bass player, who does not recognize the level of talent and skill Jaco had. I could mention his knowledge of theory and harmony, his speed and accuracy, his ability to play any genre in the correct "style", ...., .... What impresses me most, is that: 1) as a fretless player, he did all this with incredible precision (intonation), and 2) he was a pioneer - doing things that no one else was with an electric bass.

I think that the OP’s question is not about Jaco’s ability but I could be wrong about that. He was a virtuoso and an innovating pioneer, of that there is no doubt. I think the division here in these pages is whether or not you like what he did and whether or not you acknowledge his contribution to music generally and bass playing specifically. This discussion could go on indefinitely.

 

[Rumbledore]

UPDATE

I completely respect, and value each one of your comments and will likely remember some of the good stuff. I know it can take some effort to hash through spiderwebs. Seeing rants beyond my participation, that ignore what I'm asking, is somewhat disappointing. Taking shots at me personally?.. whatever. that's weird and low.

Please allow me to repost here, and edit into my original post (OP) for clarification, a reply I wrote back on page 11 that I feel was buried by boisterous chatter. We can take this in a positive direction!

I feel like you guys are saying what you want to say, which is awesome, but the topic isn't being addressed. Not more than ONE forum member, have I connected with in here, has the sensitivity to seriously engage on an intellectual level. In regards to Jaco within the confines of a mere thread, I don't care about what you like. I don't care about what you don't like.

What's more, I can't quite identify if I'm learning more about Jaco, or about each one of you individuals.

MY REPOST AND ADD TO OP IS AS FOLLOWS:

“Thank you. This reply is right on mark in regards to the struggles I have in understanding the hype within the crouching Jaco fandom. Some say that ‘it is difficult to truly know someone without having gotten to know their friends’.

Overnight and through this morning, as I contemplate the many above responses, it’s becoming clearer that there is this sort of lurking separation between consumers (who don't know they're being told to “hey look at this” by mainstream media industry), and those who care about their fellow people as individual-beings living along side us in the same broken world.

I'm especially moved by your calling-of-the-nations to take a deeper lesson - one of more than frail surfaces of which are proved no greater than watching a monkey bang cymbals together.

I'm glad you mentioned that you are somewhat unpleased with the fact that his (so called) decline wasn't met with greater personal support or attention. Being regarded as famous is isolating and normally contributes to a subject’s psychological evolution in negative light. If Jaco wasn't an ego-manic (not saying he was or wasn't), the chances that he doubted himself internally are the same as any-average-body.

Knowing one’s self becomes a greater challenge per the amount of feedback given by his success. Fans (you guys who are as such) can see that he has a unique talent, and then go on to say he IS that talent emotionally…which isn't true. Then they level-up even more and want to be him, do what he does, get what he has etc.. In doing so, one would be preventing the advancement of humanity in a snowballing bully bus.

If so many people here have such ideas that Jaco was “da man”, I'm like; bruh, you don't even know him. You're a consumer with a brand loyalty. Yea, people collect bits and bobs of yesteryear, but it's self serving.

My hope would be that the Jaco story doesn't even come to fruition again, but I know it will to some poor soul.

Being supportive, and as a partner is noble (bass players know that right?).” /quote

 

[DWBass]

For me......I had a look see and some stuff I dug and other stuff did nothing for me. I do appreciate what he brought to bass playing but he really didn't have an impact during my formative years. Having said that, my band Brasswind plays The Chicken regularly. I play it pretty straight with zero embellishment.

 

[Basshappi]

But that's exactly what I was getting at.

There ARE 11 year olds with better chops than Hendrix. Lots of them. The only reason they picked up a guitar to begin with, and the only reason they have any idea what to do with it, was that Hendrix showed them.

Or, at least, he showed the guy who showed the guy who showed them.

Exactly this.
Technical virtuosity has become almost ubiquitous on practically every instrument.
But that does not mitigate the fact that these wonderful 11 year olds, along with all the rest of us, are standing on the shoulders of giants.
To not realize or appreciate these giants for their contributions to the whole is simply ignorance and thus correctable.
However, to disregard/disrespect those contributions, or worse, to deny, denigrate or disparage their accomplishments and influence is hubris.

 

[monkeyfinger]

Are you saying that we are all just victims of media hype? Well thank you very much for alerting me of this condition. I am now awake and aware of the fact that I my opinion is the result of mass hysteria. Dee Dee Ramone, we love you!! Oh, wait, is that a mass hysteria response too? Gosh, who do I like? Please let me know, would you? Thank you for leading me out of the darkness.

Hey, there are a lot of good people on this thread. Some of whom I have the honor of knowing personally. Some like Jaco, some do not. I respect their opinions in either case. Let's show them some decency by not implying they are media parrots.

UPDATE

I completely respect, and value each one of your comments and will likely remember some of the good stuff. I know it can take some effort to hash through spiderwebs. Seeing rants beyond my participation, that ignore what I'm asking, is somewhat disappointing. Taking shots at me personally?.. whatever. that's weird and low.

Please allow me to repost here, and edit into my original post (OP) for clarification, a reply I wrote back on page 11 that I feel was buried by boisterous chatter. We can take this in a positive direction!

I feel like you guys are saying what you want to say, which is awesome, but the topic isn't being addressed. Not more than ONE forum member, have I connected with in here, has the sensitivity to seriously engage on an intellectual level. In regards to Jaco within the confines of a mere thread, I don't care about what you like. I don't care about what you don't like.

What's more, I can't quite identify if I'm learning more about Jaco, or about each one of you individuals.

MY REPOST AND ADD TO OP IS AS FOLLOWS:

“Thank you. This reply is right on mark in regards to the struggles I have in understanding the hype within the crouching Jaco fandom. Some say that ‘it is difficult to truly know someone without having gotten to know their friends’.

Overnight and through this morning, as I contemplate the many above responses, it’s becoming clearer that there is this sort of lurking separation between consumers (who don't know they're being told to “hey look at this” by mainstream media industry), and those who care about their fellow people as individual-beings living along side us in the same broken world.

I'm especially moved by your calling-of-the-nations to take a deeper lesson - one of more than frail surfaces of which are proved no greater than watching a monkey bang cymbals together.

I'm glad you mentioned that you are somewhat unpleased with the fact that his (so called) decline wasn't met with greater personal support or attention. Being regarded as famous is isolating and normally contributes to a subject’s psychological evolution in negative light. If Jaco wasn't an ego-manic (not saying he was or wasn't), the chances that he doubted himself internally are the same as any-average-body.

Knowing one’s self becomes a greater challenge per the amount of feedback given by his success. Fans (you guys who are as such) can see that he has a unique talent, and then go on to say he IS that talent emotionally…which isn't true. Then they level-up even more and want to be him, do what he does, get what he has etc.. In doing so, one would be preventing the advancement of humanity in a snowballing bully bus.

If so many people here have such ideas that Jaco was “da man”, I'm like; bruh, you don't even know him. You're a consumer with a brand loyalty. Yea, people collect bits and bobs of yesteryear, but it's self serving.

My hope would be that the Jaco story doesn't even come to fruition again, but I know it will to some poor soul.

Being supportive, and as a partner is noble (bass players know that right?).” /quote

 

[retslock]

Yeah, OP is probably trolling, but look on the bright side. A bunch of Jaco fans got to have a discussion about what they really loved about him, and there was tunes posted. That's not bad on a Monday morning if you're a fan.

I personally am not. I try to get into his sound on occasion. Going to give the Heavy Weather album a full listen right now actually.

I'd be a fool not to respect his chops or appreciate his contributions though.

Just keep in mind when you listen to Heavy Weather that there are a few other giants on that album too. Joe Zawinul, Wayne Shorter and Alex Acuña all make huge contributions. It’s not a Jaco album but his part in the end product is huge. Shorter and Zawinul’s playing and compositions and Zawinul’s sounds are central to the overall sound of the album.