could you please sell me on Jaco?

[Kragnorak]

I'm still trying to be sold on J. Hendrix, I see 11 year Olds on youtube play better guitar...

I've seen this comment before. Disagree. I've seen tons of 11 year olds that can play awesome sweep-picked arpeggios with great tone, but very few have even a remotely similar ability to communicate great original ideas. There are two exceptions that come to mind: Jason Becker, who was both awesome and soulful at a very young age, and the bassist known as Michael Pipoquinha (Little Popcorn) who had amazing mature jazz phrasing and timing when still a kid.

Hendrix is another that died too young. I suspect that his later career would have been like Jeff Beck x10; and the jazz/rock and progressive worlds would have been better integrated with mainstream rock due to his fame and ability to entertain a crowd. But I concede the possibility that he could have gotten lazy and 'just' settled for being a great blues-rock guitarist like Stevie Ray Vaughan was.

Jason Becker of course was struck with ALS before he could fully integrate his chops and imagination.

 

[turcmic]

10 pages and noboby mentioned he only needed 4??? what's going on TB??

what's good with threads initiated by trolls like this is getting lots of youtube links to live performances of Jaco. He was and still is a major influence.

 

[IamGroot]

That's not necessarily true. Hearing and enjoying are two very different things.

That's not necessarily true. Hearing and enjoying are two very different things.

The word used in the original post was "get" meaning "understand, comprehend, appreciate.

"If you dont get Jaco, thats a personal problem."

 

[wilberthenry]

Last week it was Lemmy, this week Jaco. Seeing/hearing how others were playing before they came onto the scene is something hard to get across decades after the fact. They were both groundbreakers. You can like Jaco's playing or dismiss it, but if you have any since of the history of bass, you understand how important Jaco is.

 

[Rumbledore]

The discussion of his talent and accomplishments I'll leave to all of you, and this will continue for as long as people think of Jazz bassists.

To me, he is a sad cautionary tale so often and tragically common in the music business. To me, how this guy could die homeless and alone and battling serious mental illness and other occupational hazards of 'the business' is of far greater significance to me, and a warning to us all: We all know or have known players who were riding the 'Long Black Train' fighting addiction and mental health issues, and yet so many of us have just chalked it up that 'hey, that dude's just out there', or the evergreen 'sex, drugs, and rock and roll', or even worse, enabled them is some way to keep the gig going.

You can't reach everybody. Sometimes it takes a while to get 'sick and tired of being sick and tired'. But IF you see a way to help or offer a hand up, TAKE IT. It's good for you, you may very well save a life.

As far as I can tell, playing music does not requite Blood Sacrifice, but I swear, sometimes I just think it must when I think of so many we've lost for no good reason except neglect and wrong attitudes. If you look at the list of 'dead musicians', you'd wonder why you'd want to be a musician . . . . or smoke in a dynamite factory, jump out of planes without a parachute, or swim with white sharks.

We've got to do better.

Thank you. This reply is right on mark in regards to the struggles I have in understanding the hype within the crouching Jaco fandom. Some say that ‘it is difficult to truly know someone without having gotten to know their friends’.

Overnight and through this morning, as I contemplate the many above responses, it’s becoming clearer that there is this sort of lurking separation between consumers (who don't know they're being told to “hey look at this” by mainstream media industry), and those who care about their fellow people as individual-beings living along side us in the same broken world.

I'm especially moved by your calling-of-the-nations to take a deeper lesson - one of more than frail surfaces of which are proved no greater than watching a monkey bang cymbals together.

I'm glad you mentioned that you are somewhat unpleased with the fact that his (so called) decline wasn't met with greater personal support or attention. Being regarded as famous is isolating and normally contributes to a subject’s psychological evolution in negative light. If Jaco wasn't an ego-manic (not saying he was or wasn't), the chances that he doubted himself internally are the same as any-average-body.

Knowing one’s self becomes a greater challenge per the amount of feedback given by his success. Fans (you guys who are as such) can see that he has a unique talent, and then go on to say he IS that talent emotionally…which isn't true. Then they level-up even more and want to be him, do what he does, get what he has etc.. In doing so, one would be preventing the advancement of humanity in a snowballing bully bus.

If so many people here have such ideas that Jaco was “da man”, I'm like; bruh, you don't even know him. You're a consumer with a brand loyalty. Yea, people collect bits and bobs of yesteryear, but it's self serving.

My hope would be that the Jaco story doesn't even come to fruition again, but I know it will to some poor soul.

Being supportive, and as a *partner is noble. Bass players know that right?

 

[Sixgunn]

The word used in the original post was "get" meaning "understand, comprehend, appreciate.

"If you dont get Jaco, thats a personal problem."

I still don't see it as a problem. I don't get Jackson Pollack's "abstract" work, yet people (who say they "get" them) pay fortunes for them. I don't think me not getting them is a problem. Do you "get" this example? If not do you think you have a problem? I'm sure you and me both don't get more than we do get. No problem there, as far as I can reckon.

 

[MtManiac]

It's fine if you are "not a fan" of Jaco's relationship to the groove, or his tone, or his phrasing, or whatever. I'm not judging you, and I hope no one else is either - it is your loss, not mine. His genius is not up for debate, and *musicians* debating it with purely subjective comments like that you "just never got into him" is pretty out of place. I don't listen to much Mozart or Bach, but I can't deny their genius, and when analyzing their scores, I have learned a lot about harmony, voicing, and construction. Charlie Parker sounds like blurry honking noise to me, but a lot of my university-level music study involved analyzing Charlie Parker's solos, and when slowed down to something reasonable like 180 bpm, his genius is staggering. I know lots of people who think Steely Dan sound boring AF, but those people by and large are not musicians, and have no idea what goes into Steely Dan's arrangements. They are not wrong - I don't judge them or condescend to them for not getting it, I accept it, but they're totally not getting it and can't get it.

I have non-musician friends for whom I have played Jaco recordings with really strong grooves, what I thought would have been found irresistible grooves by anyone. They just politely nodded and said something along the lines of "cool." That's fine. I just have to remind myself that these people have never played a strong groove with a rhythm section and a horn section in front of an audience who is feeling it. They don't know what it's like to be a part of that. I don't expect non-musicians to get it, and it's fine if they don't. Some non-musicians really like Miles Davis's tone, rightly so, and they listen to Miles but they are only appreciating a fraction of what most musicians are experiencing when listening to it. Same with Jaco.

But to hear *bass players* listen to Jaco and go "meh" or not hear his *groove*, I am kind of floored as it is self-evident - it should be - to anyone who has ever played bass with other people. I'd really love to hear what you consider to be groove-heavy.

 

[HotelX]

Jaco was one of those guys, like Hendrix among others, who changed the way their instrument was played. They were copied by tons of people so in the modern world their playing doesn't sound so special anymore.

You have heard many a Jaco clone on record. Hendrix is even more copied.

But back in the day they are like meteors blazing across the musical firmament. Game-changing virtuosos who could play their instruments in ways that were previously unimagined and yet very musical. They could write good songs AND shred like crazy.

 

[Kragnorak]

The question arose... who's the best guitarist? And immediately, it became a quest to summon up the most obscure, but legitimate candidate... instead of the answer that will be forever tattooed to that question Hendrix.
.

Dave 'Fuze' Fiuczynski! No, Rocky George! No, Fuze!

And yes, I'm sure both had at least some Hendrix influence. Your post reminds me... It's very rare that I see an interview with a really good guitarist that said "I never really cared for that Hendrix bloke", especially within the first 30 years after his death. Instead there were all these guys like Yngwie and Vai and Satriani that all pointed to Hendrix as their first influence. It's weird that musician forums are a different story sometimes.

Meanwhile, these days I'll hear a younger guy playing neo-classical harmonic-minor arpeggios and say "You must like Yngwie". The reply is often, "Nah, I don't like him. Too egotistical." Meanwhile, they are literally cribbing an approach that he introduced to guitar playing! Why does the personality matter? Recognize your roots, whippersnappers!

Back to Jaco, here's my tale of influence: I think one of the most beautiful bass players on the planet is Richard Bona. Bona grew up in Africa, playing a guitar he built himself for church. A foreign man came to town and introduced him to American jazz. One of the albums he borrowed was Jaco's first solo album; it captured Richard's attention and he played it off the rails. This music was from halfway around the world, but it taught this young lad that bass could not only be more than boring, but that you could create amazing sounds on it.

Nowadays, Richard Bona tours the world and gets paid well to play music that is interesting to him. He can afford more than most of us to turn down a $10,000 gig if it doesn't interest him or if the musicians are not prepared enough to create something great. I think it is safe to conclude that a) he gleaned more than most people from Jaco's solo album and that b) there was an objective and very real effect that Jaco had on the career and life of at least one person.

 

[BassGH]

I do love the role he found to play with Joni Mitchell--it's nontraditional but it was totally on point with what she was up to. Though since he basically took horn parts, maybe he should have let a tuba come in to play bass?? Only seems fair.

 

[Altitude]

I'm still trying to be sold on J. Hendrix, I see 11 year Olds on youtube play better guitar...

But that's exactly what I was getting at.

There ARE 11 year olds with better chops than Hendrix. Lots of them. The only reason they picked up a guitar to begin with, and the only reason they have any idea what to do with it, is that Hendrix showed them.

Or, at least, he showed the guy who showed the guy who showed them.

 

[Altitude]

I do love the role he found to play with Joni Mitchell--it's nontraditional but it was totally on point with what she was up to. Though since he basically took horn parts, maybe he should have let a tuba come in to play bass?? Only seems fair.

I love the collaborative work they did. Love, love.

But let's all be clear - Jaco walked all over everyone else's feet on that live album. Joni signed up for it and surely knew what she was getting, and the result is epic. Any other bass player on any other gig might get fired for playing half the notes Jaco did.

 

[agfrag]

"Talking about music is like dancing about architecture." -S. Martin.

 

[RBrownBass]

what the heck are people idolize him anyway? what's missing?

People's listening tastes are either broad enough to include music that might not appeal to every drunken bootyshaker, or they are not broad enough to include it.

You probably can't be sold on Jaco if you've been an adult musician for any amount of time and still don't get it.

 

[madmarvin]

I like Jaco. I don't like how it always seems like I have to be told how much to like Jaco, and that it always seems I don't like him enough. I feel like Jaco fans get upset just reading this.

He was great, game changer. But for me, so was John Paul Jones, Jack Bruce, Lemmy, Steve Harris, and god how many others?? He can groove. So could Bootsy and Jamerson. He was musical. So was Bruce and Jones. He had a way of playing jazz that was unique, so was Mingus. I don't know, I think he's great but somehow I get the feeling from players that love him that I don't think he was great enough, and that because of that I'm missing something and don't truly appreciate or understand the instrument, and that's annoying to be honest.

 

[selowitch]

Jaco was a pioneer of electric bass technique but sometimes I think that unfairly overshadows his contributions as a musician.

 

[MD Stingray]

I bought my first record 45 years ago. My first bass 35 years ago. I must have listened to a million songs, but never ever managed to listen through a whole song Jaco has played on.

I just dislike his playing. I can’t stand it.

But hey, I don’t like Picasso, Bach or single cut basses either.

 

[john_g]

When its 40 years later and people only saw everything that came after, it can be hard to appreciate. I only heard about Jaco when I was learning to play in the mid 80s but never heard him play and didnt really care. Later in my life hes become one of my favorite players. I was just listening to the song Hejira the other day (live version) and it kills me.

 

[bass12]

"Talking about music is like dancing about architecture." -S. Martin.

Well that's a silly notion...

 

[pbass2]

You don't HAVE to like Jaco. He's obviously one of the most influential bassists of all time, and while I respect that and admire his technique and artistry, I'm not much of a fan (and I don't care for the "Jaco tone"...