Country and Western

[GretschWretch]

I mentioned southern rock earlier, but I think it also evolved into country rock like the (later) Byrds and eventually the Eagles.

I think Travis Tritt is the turning point here. Put some drive in your country.

 

[GretschWretch]

...and one of Glasgow's four professional football teams.
View attachment 4619309

Let's see: five down linemen, a tight end, two running backs, two wide receivers, and a quarterback. Yep; football for sure.

 

[GretschWretch]

And, for contrast, here’s “old time country” fiddling.



The fiddler, Tatiana Hargreaves, is a master. The banjo player, Bruce Molsky, is The modern flame keeper of the old time style. He is the fiddle teacher, along with Darol Anger, of Brittany Haas, whom many consider to be the finest old-time fiddle player alive today.

Why all the fiddle references? Because the music OP asked about is fundamentally dance music, and dance music music in this context is linked inextricably to the fiddle.

edit: also— the banjo is an African American instrument through and through, based upon its West-African mother instruments.

Hear hear! And oftentimes at a dance the band was the fiddler. No one else. The "traditional" old-timey band roster was fiddle, banjo, guitar (covering the bass parts).

 

[fhm555]

Bluegrass is the hillbilly version of speed Metal

Actually, speed metal is the slacker version of bluegrass, but don’t tell Bill Monroe’s ghost or he’ll try to copyright “speed metal”.

 

[Wisebass]

hi fellow celts (or non celts )

Do you believe country music is the true Celtic music of the modern world?

No!

Country (especially "speed fiddle country" ) certainly has some european folk influences,

but the only true Celtic music of the modern world... (see mongo2's post below)

Celtic music has "limited appeal" and C&W is, uh, "more appealing".

Do I have it right?

Hell no!

Celtic always was appealing (long before C&W!) it's folk music. => it has to be appealing!

Scotland and Ireland are Celtic countries so country music does have a connection to those cultures but Celtic music is still "the true Celtic music of the modern world."

Don't forget Wales aaaaaand Brittany (France!) see below!

Who are your favorite artists?

C&W? Not a fan! No cookies for me!

"Modern French Celtique"?

Plantec:





sorry only a Covid crowd on the second live video!

Fleuves:




greetings

Wise(b)ass

 

[BBQisgood]

don’t tell Bill Monroe’s ghost or he’ll try to copyright “speed metal”.

 

[GretschWretch]

It's the same tenor banjo, we just put different strings on it.

Do we? My understanding of tenor banjo is that it is tuned in fifths, no matter who or what nationality is playing it, or when. Take the drone string off a five-string, and you've got a plectrum banjo.

 

[GretschWretch]

Don't forget Wales aaaaaand Brittany (France!) see below!

We may be coloring a bit outside the lines here. The Celts of Wales, Britanny, and Cornwall are Cymri; the Scots and Irish are Gaels. I would not be at all surprised if the Cymric artistic and musical traditions are quite different from the Gaelic. I've never heard of a Welsh jig or reel.

 

[MrLenny1]

Bostonians pronounce a lot of things incorrectly.

Wister for Worcester. Ha

 

[Wisebass]

GretschWretch

1+

The melodic parts are very similar but the dancing is different!

check out the crowd on this one



Wise

 

[BBQisgood]

Do we? My understanding of tenor banjo is that it is tuned in fifths, no matter who or what nationality is playing it, or when. Take the drone string off a five-string, and you've got a plectrum banjo.

Plectrum banjo: typically CGDA, and is a term for a tenor banjo played with a plectrum in context of a jazz band or dance band. Loud. Used for comping, mostly. Can have a longer scale than other tenors used for melody. Can also be tuned “Chicago style” like the upper four strings of a guitar.

If you ever talk with Herb Trotman, he basically agrees with your assertion about essentially taking the drone string off. I’ll add that in that context I don’t think many people use open tuning.

Tenor banjo: Umbrella term for four string banjo.

In context of Irish music, tuned in fifths. Can be CGDA or GDAE an octave down from the violin. Usually in 17 or 19 fret versions. Scale length varies. Generally tuned in the GDAE tuning to double the fiddle.

In all contexts, the instrument is comfortable for mandolin and fiddle/violin players when tuned in fifths. Guitar players were more comfortable with Chicago tuning.

Like the difference in setup and sometimes components of violin vs fiddle, the strings are important.

 

[defdog99]

Watch the Ken Burns Documentary on Country Music. It's pretty amazing.

Country derived from blues/banjo/fiddle and bluegrass.

Does Irish music have banjos and fiddles? Sure. So they are related. Just too damn fast where people and lords dance to rivers and such. Did the Irish invent line dances? Maybe. lol.

 

[Paul New]

Do we? My understanding of tenor banjo is that it is tuned in fifths, no matter who or what nationality is playing it, or when. Take the drone string off a five-string, and you've got a plectrum banjo.

Not exactly. Well, sort of. “American” tuning is in 5ths, CGDA low to high. Irish trad takes the same instrument and usually tunes it down a 5th from that, GDAE, same as octave mandolin tuning. A lot prefer to drop the E to D. Some people will tell you that the Irish prefer a 17 fret model, but look at actual Irish Trad players and you will see more of the 19 fret models.

The Plectrum Banjo is a different animal. I’ve never seen one used outside of NOLA trad music and rare there.

 

[jnewmark]

Not exactly. Well, sort of. “American” tuning is in 5ths, CGDA low to high. Irish trad takes the same instrument and usually tunes it down a 5th from that, GDAE, same as octave mandolin tuning. A lot prefer to drop the E to D. Some people will tell you that the Irish prefer a 17 fret model, but look at actual Irish Trad players and you will see more of the 19 fret models.

The Plectrum Banjo is a different animal. I’ve never seen one used outside of NOLA trad music and rare there.

There's a Trad band in NOLA called Tuba Skinny, where the banjo player plays a six string.

Tuba Skinny - Jubilee Stomp - Royal Street I 2018 - YouTube

 

[Wisebass]

essentially taking the drone string off.

Or taking the drone string out. This is also known as the "banjo drone strike"

Enough nonsense for now!

Wise

 

[BBQisgood]

Two videos showing difference between American and Irish traditions and the difference in styles between plectrum and Irish tenor playing:



James Chirillo switches between plectrum banjo and guitar several times. Wynton shows how African and European traditions melded. Awesome.





Gerry O’Connor melts faces with Irish-style tenor playing.

edit: YouTube makes you click on the second video. Totally worth it.

 

[Paul New]

There's a Trad band in NOLA called Tuba Skinny, where the banjo player plays a six string.

Tuba Skinny - Jubilee Stomp - Royal Street I 2018 - YouTube

Yes, i know. They also have a real tenor player sometimes. It’s a rotating lineup. Banjo players call that six string a cheater.

all this country talk made me want to hear some.

 

[CapnSev]

Bluegrass is the hillbilly version of speed Metal

… and I freaking love it to death.

 

[Paul New]

Great channel for old time. The direct american descendant of european folk dance music.

 

[GreyBeard]

NO

 

[GeorgesEric]

Lots of 3/4 in Celtic, lots of 4/4 in country & western.