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Country and Western
- Thread starter ElectroVibe
- Start date
Hi, hi ... been lurking TB for years. My profile is new here tho.
Yikes, this thread has got to be a troll. So lemme step in it.
There are FAR too many non-celtic/anglo ingredients that make country music unique.
I give you Bob Wills.
Spanish, Bohemian, French, African & Native American all mashed together in a whole bunch of Texas goodness.
Yikes, this thread has got to be a troll. So lemme step in it.
Absolutely not.
There are FAR too many non-celtic/anglo ingredients that make country music unique.
I give you Bob Wills.
Spanish, Bohemian, French, African & Native American all mashed together in a whole bunch of Texas goodness.
Electric bass with Celtic style can't be done? I think country musician just get it. Yes, it can be done.
Sons of the Pioneers. Good songs like "Cool Water".
Gene Autry
Roy Rogers
Marty Robbins
"Ghost Riders in the Sky "
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Supposedly Johnny Cash is kind of a pioneer in combining Appalachian and western styles.
It happened when he married into the Carter family.
It happened when he married into the Carter family.
(this thread is excellent troll bait, behold as I further make a jackass out of myself for even responding)
Johnny Cash was from Arkansas & not very western at all (compared to iconic "western" stars like Roy Rogers).
He was among the rockabilly pioneers like Elvis Presley & Jerry Lee Lewis in the the 50s. And while the recording industry and radio execs lumped him in the country music heap, Johnny Cash was really in a class of his own.
I really want to address this fallacy that "Country" music is inherently Celtic.
It soundly isn't & to assume so is to dismiss every other ethnic and cultural group that has arrived in North America since the late 16th century, and the significant contributions that artists of these various demographic and cultural regions added to the arc of county music's evolution from Eck Robertson's (of Texas) & Fiddlin' John Carson's (of Georgia) pioneer recordings in 1922 & 1923 - to the thinly veiled culture war anthems of the last 20-30 years from the likes of Charlie Daniels and Toby Keith.
This here's B side of Fiddlin John Carson's 1923 recording of 'Little Cabin in the Lane' -eg the "Big Bang" of country music. It's the furthest thing from "celtic" music as it could be. Professional ethnomusicology nerds recognise it as African in origin.
Sure, you'll find examples of Irish fiddlers playing tunes that make animal sounds in their repertoire (eg .... various interpretations of "The Fox and Hounds") , but this kind of tune is not historically Gaelic.
Once this kind of gimmick fiddling became popular via the magic of wax records, it was popular anywhere and everywhere in the world a record player could be found.
I am earnestly curious as to how you're connecting "celtic" music to what you're hearing in "Jolene".
There's a neo-African beat, quasi-Spanish guitar riff and Hawaiian steel guitar in there.
I've been playing old time/bluegrass and country music my entire life & I guess I've been mostly shielded from this kind of broad misconception.
There's obviously something in your original query that I'm not getting, please help me (us) understand
Coming from a family that has called the southeast of Virginia home since the late 1600s - it was go English (English Protestant, acutely) or go home.
100% .... this thread is totally all over the place.
Problem with the wiki article is that it dismisses the African, Creole, French, and Spanish influences in country music.
I'd tend to agree with that.
Too bad this thread can't be an analysis of the origins and historical influences of a genre without the declarations of disparagement or allegiance relating to current social trends.
Not intending to offend anyone, but what "Celtic" or "Country" is right now is fluid and far from how it was presented even in the recent past, much less historically, and is right now heavily bent to meet the tastes of current paying consumers of it. (Just like the rest of music and art is). It's not really very relevant to the OP's proposed discussion, IMO.
Not to dismiss your point, but the Ulster Scotts who populated Appalachia and brought their traditions and instruments with them had a lot of time to settle in relative isolation before any African, Creole, French, and Spanish influences arrived to be incorporated into the music.
And the Scotch-Irish who settled in the mountains and gradually developed the ballads and songs they brought to America into proto-country music, were by and large not slaveholders so minimal African-American influence. On the other hand, after about 1900 they were not nearly as isolated as the stereotypes would have you believe. There was Sears and Roebuck and other mail order outfits supplying pianos, pump organs, small instruments, and a vast sea of sheet music.
I'd say that country music circa 1940 could be described as a Scotch-Irish base with accretions of influence from African-American, Creole, French, and Spanish sources.
After that point, it's Katy bar the door.
I very much agree with you. But... between 1670-ish (fleeing the Church of England) and 1900 (equally influential Sears Catalog
) is a long time for Appalachian music to develop it's American "root ball" in "relative isolation".
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You know this how?
Let's see the data to support this categorical assertion.
