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CRAZY perspective I got from a long-time DJ last night

#161
two fingers said:
Agreed. I understand that the "all about me and what I want" crowd has to get their ego fix by playing on a stage. (Clearly, the MUSIC isn't the important part. It's doing it in front of people while CLAIMING it's the music.)

But, for crap sake, if you can't do any better than your grass cutting clothes, and you can't be bothered with any production, at LEAST take FIVE MINUTES and learn the dang songs correctly.

Yes, audiences know when you can't be bothered with the bridge chords so you continue to play chorus chords through the bridge. They might not know WHAT exactly is wrong. But they know SOMETHING is wrong.

You guys wanna play for fun because your job or marriage or mom sucks and you need a release? FINE! Do it.

Just stop doing it HORRIBLY.

That's the frustrating part. THAT'S why I harp on hack garage bands. Many of them can't be bothered with ANYTHING quality about the show. It's JUST about their need to get a tiny ego shot by being in front of people.

Dress up? Nope.

Lights? Forget you pal. I ain't setn up lights.

ANY kind of look or effort to set yourselves apart from folks wandering the isles of Wal-Mart???? Screw you. My socks and sandles are rock-n-roll enough for me.

But then to not even be bothered to PLAY WELL????? To put your neighbor up front to sing just because he has a PULSE but couldn't carry a tune in a dump truck? To simplify the format and chord voicings of basic rock songs that you've been playing since the 60s????

COME ON! YOU'RE NOT EVEN TRYING! You don't have a "right" to be on stage just because you woke up today. I don't care what the hippies told you. You aren't special just because you can breathe.

At the very least, play the ever loving crap out of whatever you play. If you're going to drag down the economic end, don't take the music end with it.

Bunch of entitled..... :banghead:
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OK, I think I get it now.

Though I still don't agree about the money thing, and I ain't settin' up no lights at Joe's Dive Bar and Ptomaine Trap, at least I get your definition of "hack". I guess it's just been so long since I've seen a band that was THAT BAD at a commercial establishment (I don't get out much anymore?) that I had a different picture than what you've just painted.

Some years ago I was having fun playing with some friends in the basement and at the occasional friends' parties. It was great fun, until a couple of them started thinking that we were good enough to go out and play for pay. When I told them what my minimum expectations were for us to do that, that was the end of the band.

Yes to all of the above!
 
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#162
Steven Ayres said:
Anyone who goes beyond aspirational dabbling and girl-baiting to actually work to understand the craft and approach it in a professional manner is a musician in my book. "Professional manner" includes having respect for yourself and what you're doing as a business, and awareness of the delicacy of the gig economy for all of us who must work in it. I'm totally with Two Fingers on this, and I've seen how it works across over 45 years onstage.
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Respect! That is a generous outlook.
 
#163
I think part of the problem is perception. A $300 bar band that gets $300 is happy. A $2000 festival band that gets $2000 is happy. A $300 bar band that thinks they should get $2000 is going to be torqued and they're going to lash out at everything and everybody that's "holding them back".

Bands have to have an understanding of the market they are in. Not all markets can support what you want to get paid. Are you prepared to do what it takes to get the money you want? More focused rehearsals to build a tighter band? More travel to get to the higher paying gigs and markets? More investment in your band? Are you really ready to give up those "few" beers before the gig to have a better payday?

I promise, I mean no offence to anyone on here - but if the gigs you're going after can be had by the "hack" bands, you're never going to get paid more and it isn't the hack bands fault.
 
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#170
Diamond_Dave said:
I read that and thought of Garth Brooks, who sold double albums (which count as two units sold) and greatest hits sets to try to catch the Beatles. Garth who? Exactly. Fat guy in a loud shirt.
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Elvis Presley. Fat guy in a loud whole outfit from head to toe.... and a huge belt buckle covering his big fat gut the whole time. He did OK, I guess. ;)

Elton John. Tiny guy in loud everything.
 
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#172
Diamond_Dave said:
I read that and thought of Garth Brooks, who sold double albums (which count as two units sold) and greatest hits sets to try to catch the Beatles. Garth who? Exactly. Fat guy in a loud shirt.
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I saw a video of Garth Brooks' band doing The Who - smashing up their equipment. One of the silliest things I've ever seen! When I played in a country band we had to do one of his songs. I feel blessed not to be able to remember it....
 
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#173
Diamond_Dave said:
If you put Elvis and Elton John in the same company as Garth Brooks, then we just can't be friends. :roflmao:
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Nah. You were making a point about his physical features and wardrobe choices. That seems to have nothing to do with success as the two artists I mentioned point out. :cool:

Sales are sales. You either sold the most, or you didn't.
 
#175
two fingers said:
2) But I'll say it again. If you are playing GIGS with a full band for a few hundred bucks, you are actually HURTING the market for the rest of us.

Do us all a favor and just jam in the garage if you can't demand more than a DJ with nothing but two speakers on a stick and some fancy lights gets.

If we all told club owners we would rather stay home than play for $300, the price WOULD go up. Sure, we would lose some to DJs. But not as many as you think.
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Maybe you should go on tour and stop trying to make big bucks in clubs and bars. If people are willing to do something for not a lot of money, it's a hobby and not a job or a career. And let's face it, that's what playing in local bars is - a hobby. If you can reliably bring a few hundred people out to a venue, you'll get big bucks too. That's going to require doing original music that's actually good, touring and building a following. It's work. You may even be able to do it with a really good tribute act. There is a local band that does Pink Floyd and they have a killer light show that cost hundreds of thousands. It's an event and people will pay regular ticket prices to see them. You can't just chug out 70's, 80's and 90's covers like everyone else and expect to make a ton of money. Move to NYC, Nashville, or LA and join a big name band, then you'll make money. But stop trying to say that hack bands are killing it for musicians. Bar bands are a hobby, not a career. If you don't have the talent or the drive to go big, you're not going to make a living in the music business.
 
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#176
For me it would have been uber cool to have seen Elvis, Garth or Elton when they were just starting out.

I remember (more than) a few years ago, somewhere around 2002 or so, my wife and I were at Red Rocks to see John Mayer. Maroon 5 was the opener and they played the entire Songs About Jane album. My wife and I looked at each other about half way through and we both said at the same time - these guys are gonna be huge.

Personally I love to be at the emerging artist level to see what develops.

I look forward to seeing the bar bands performing their own material before the make it big!

John
 
#177
BTW, that John Mayer concert is still by far the best concerts that we’ve been to. JM was ~24ish, thanked everyone in the audience for spending hard earned cash and coming to see him & his band. At that point he was humbled to be playing at that level.

About half way through, the band leaves the stage and JM brings a stool out from back stage. He sat and said “I hope you don’t mind, but I just wanted to play some stuff that I’ve been working on...” and proceeds to jam for 30-45 minutes. Solo. His stuff that came out on later albums, Zeppelin, Stones, Clapton, etc. Sounded awesome.

Haven’t seen him again live - and not sure if I would - but that show still ranks as one of the best ever.

John
 
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#179
When i was younger I earned my living as a Roadie..... then as a DJ and Lazer/Lighting tech. I'm also a musician and for the last 25 years have earned my living as a pub/club manager.


two fingers said:
If we all told club owners we would rather stay home than play for $300, the price WOULD go up. Sure, we would lose some to DJs. But not as many as you think.
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Not really.
Most venues these days, at least in Australia and New Zealand, put on live music because either the owner or manager likes live music themselves, not because they think it will make them any money. In most cases they would make more bottom line profit by not having a band on. I've covered this before here if you want a bit of the venue perspective.
 
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