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Crossdressing and bandmates.

Why are norms so important? They will always exist, but why do we have to abide by them if they do not involve bringing harm to others? Discomfort doesn't count.

Musicians here are always talking about doing new things, breaking new ground, making new sounds. What if everyone insisted we stuck to 'normal' music?

New or different is not better, but it has a right to coexist with what has become normal (which just a little while ago was new or different itself)
I'm not taking a side here. Just understand this. Social norms exist. They always have, they always will. Some will stick by them no matter what. Others will fight them.
We all adhere to those norms we agree with and disregard those we don't agree with.
 
I'm not taking a side here. Just understand this. Social norms exist. They always have, they always will. Some will stick by them no matter what. Others will fight them.
We all adhere to those norms we agree with and disregard those we don't agree with.

There is no 'side' to take.

I asked some very simple questions. We take some things so for granted it is worth looking at them in a more fundamental way and asking ourselves if they are really necessary or desirable.

I understand that we as humans have extremely strong natural tendencies, with sound evolutionary explanations, for classifying things and especially people into groups. We distrust or fear people that look different, talk different, think different, and act different.

People kill each other over how to pray to the same God or the football team they support.

Children bully each other, teens split up into distinct groups easily identified by clothing, music they listen to, or interests, and adults ostracize people at work and hate or refuse to socialize with people from different neighborhoods, social class, skin colour or ethnic group and nationality.

We know enough in these times to actually see past this and to make an effort to see people for what they are and not assume who we think they are because of what group they belong to. We no longer are ignorant of history and anything past the next village or the tribe over the next hill.

We do not have the excuse of our ancestors, nor the need, to stick to clans and tribes or extended families for survival itself.

This is why we still have war- not because we naturally hate each other, but because our inclinations and tendencies to create identity groups that have an evolutionary explanation are exploited by those who wish to gain wealth and power, to do their bidding.

We march our children off to fie in battle in the name of freedom, religion, protecting our way of life, and often things so trivial it would be hard to believe if it wasn't so common. We can go from an office job to bayoneting someone in a foreign land in a month because we have perfected the devices of propaganda, turning friendly nations into evil ones in a matter of weeks or days.

I can go on forever but I guess you see where I'm going. Is this really the best humans can be? Should we not think twice before handing our ludicrous prejudices down to our children? Do we really have reason to hate our neighbour because they wear different clothes?

Do the clothes we wear really change the person wearing them, like some kind of magic where simply putting on a skirt instead of pants or vice versa can create scandal, get you beaten up, and, yes, ostracized?

Maybe we should look again at the concept of ostracism, not to exclude people from the 'circle of trust', but to banish politicians who do the most to destroy democracies that seek to ensure we get an equal voice no matter what we wear or who we pray to or what team we support.
 
There is no 'side' to take.

I asked some very simple questions. We take some things so for granted it is worth looking at them in a more fundamental way and asking ourselves if they are really necessary or desirable.

I understand that we as humans have extremely strong natural tendencies, with sound evolutionary explanations, for classifying things and especially people into groups. We distrust or fear people that look different, talk different, think different, and act different.

People kill each other over how to pray to the same God or the football team they support.

Children bully each other, teens split up into distinct groups easily identified by clothing, music they listen to, or interests, and adults ostracize people at work and hate or refuse to socialize with people from different neighborhoods, social class, skin colour or ethnic group and nationality.

We know enough in these times to actually see past this and to make an effort to see people for what they are and not assume who we think they are because of what group they belong to. We no longer are ignorant of history and anything past the next village or the tribe over the next hill.

We do not have the excuse of our ancestors, nor the need, to stick to clans and tribes or extended families for survival itself.

This is why we still have war- not because we naturally hate each other, but because our inclinations and tendencies to create identity groups that have an evolutionary explanation are exploited by those who wish to gain wealth and power, to do their bidding.

We march our children off to fie in battle in the name of freedom, religion, protecting our way of life, and often things so trivial it would be hard to believe if it wasn't so common. We can go from an office job to bayoneting someone in a foreign land in a month because we have perfected the devices of propaganda, turning friendly nations into evil ones in a matter of weeks or days.

I can go on forever but I guess you see where I'm going. Is this really the best humans can be? Should we not think twice before handing our ludicrous prejudices down to our children? Do we really have reason to hate our neighbour because they wear different clothes?

Do the clothes we wear really change the person wearing them, like some kind of magic where simply putting on a skirt instead of pants or vice versa can create scandal, get you beaten up, and, yes, ostracized?

Maybe we should look again at the concept of ostracism, not to exclude people from the 'circle of trust', but to banish politicians who do the most to destroy democracies that seek to ensure we get an equal voice no matter what we wear or who we pray to or what team we support.
Every thing you are saying here is reasonable the goals are laudable. But I still think you are missing my main point. Regardless of our improved knowledge, we still behave the same way. I'm not defending it. I'm not saying it is right. It just is. Your second paragraph sums it up. I also agree we should strive to overcome it, but in reality, we are still just humans.
 
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Well... some of us are aliens hiding amongst you humans.



You might be coming out our way? I'm definitely inviting myself to this get together if it happens!

Ahh, "coming out" might be stretching it a little; as far as I know JimmyM is straight to the point.

One of my very close friends were a crossdresser (unfortunately he died), he wasn't a bassist though, more of a singer and multi instrumentalist.

Anyway, I don't mind.

People can dress as they feel like, personally I prefer Thousand Island Dressing though.

A toast (crouton?) to you!

I switched from TID to French Dressing, not that anybody here'd give a toss about it. It's salad day when a person is ostrich-egged about their choice of dressing. Then again, that's just the tip of the Iceberg-Lettuce...

They put TID on pizzas here, PIZZAS!

Ah well, to each their own. I definitely do not want Thousand Island Dressing on my pizza, but if that's somebody else's taste, more power to 'em.

Cheeze-Whiz on Chips Ahoy – that was a tasty snack I concocted myself in my youth. Haven't had that since then. Tastes change.


Not a clue, don't much care. Crossdressing is utterly harmless.

Unless you get beaten up for it.
 
Well... some of us are aliens hiding amongst you humans.

I know nothing! Nothing!

Cheeze-Whiz on Chips Ahoy – that was a tasty snack I concocted myself in my youth. Haven't had that since then. Tastes change.

One must use Cheeze-Whiz to make a proper Philadelphia cheesesteak.


Unless you get beaten up for it.

Or killed. Google: transgendered homicide statistics
Take care not to google "google" or you may be shown pictures of your grandchildren :roflmao:
 

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