Double Bass DB/cello solo from Verdi's Rigoletto

[neilG]

If that's the attitude cellists give you, you need to find new people to play with IMHO. .......

I'm not the one who engages the musicians.

 

[Jason Sypher]

A little surprised by the snarky resistance to the search for the right “color”. Is this a section thing (something I know nothing about)? Certainly everyone here knows what he means. And don’t we all dissect everything we play to get the right color and weight and emotion out of each note, constantly adjusting for the very best accuracy to expression ratio?

And do bassists here still feel inferior to cellists? I for one prefer the bass in many instances to cello. Sure, cello is beautiful but I find the bass every bit as capable of communicating with its own unique gravitas.

 

[Neil Pye]

A little surprised by the snarky resistance to the search for the right “color”. Is this a section thing (something I know nothing about)? Certainly everyone here knows what he means. And don’t we all dissect everything we play to get the right color and weight and emotion out of each note, constantly adjusting for the very best accuracy to expression ratio?

We most certainly should, but it appears we don't. Apparently that is "fancy stuff" that we should save for auditions...

 

[Jason Sypher]

We most certainly should, but it appears we don't. Apparently that is "fancy stuff" that we should save for auditions...

Well this is what I want to understand. Is there a prejudice in orchestra bass players against trying to be, I don’t know, too artistic, too involved in personal expression? Are soloists looked down upon? Does wanting to be more nuanced and singularly minded make you a bass player suffering cello-envy? I was just taken back by the shot taken at another bass player for wanting to get the right feeling on a note. I find this kind of fascinating! Is section playing communistic?

 

[neilG]

I don't think there's any prejudice against bass players trying to be soloistic. I think you've missed the point, well, at least MY point: this isn't a solo. There's a time to be a team player, too. Let's not forget what this lick sounds like in real life and whether any of the other stuff matters.

 

[Jason Sypher]

I don't think there's any prejudice against bass players trying to be soloistic. I think you've missed the point, well, at least MY point: this isn't a solo. There's a time to be a team player, too. Let's not forget what this lick sounds like in real life and whether any of the other stuff matters.

Gotcha

 

[Neil Pye]

I don't think there's any prejudice against bass players trying to be soloistic. I think you've missed the point, well, at least MY point: this isn't a solo. There's a time to be a team player, too. Let's not forget what this lick sounds like in real life and whether any of the other stuff matters.

I wasn't suggesting we should be "soloistic", whatever that means, when playing this, just that playing in tune and in time is not enough. We should surely always aim to be as musical as possible, whether playing in a section or not. Tell a cellist that the "fancy stuff" should be kept for auditions and see what response you get! As bass players we do ourselves no favours by promoting these attitudes. Why not put all of your skill and musicianship into everything you play, regardless of what you think the audience will hear? The extra certainly won't make it worse, surely?

 

[Jason Sypher]

I wasn't suggesting we should be "soloistic", whatever that means, when playing this, just that playing in tune and in time is not enough. We should surely always aim to be as musical as possible, whether playing in a section or not. Tell a cellist that the "fancy stuff" should be kept for auditions and see what response you get! As bass players we do ourselves no favours by promoting these attitudes. Why not put all of your skill and musicianship into everything you play, regardless of what you think the audience will hear? The extra certainly won't make it worse, surely?

I agree. Calvin sort of kicked it off by saying we only need to play in tune and in time and the rest doesn’t matter. I guess that’s what caught my attention. But he must have been being sarcastic.

 

[neilG]

I wasn't suggesting we should be "soloistic", whatever that means, when playing this, just that playing in tune and in time is not enough. We should surely always aim to be as musical as possible, whether playing in a section or not. Tell a cellist that the "fancy stuff" should be kept for auditions and see what response you get! As bass players we do ourselves no favours by promoting these attitudes. Why not put all of your skill and musicianship into everything you play, regardless of what you think the audience will hear? The extra certainly won't make it worse, surely?

I hear you, but it could make it worse. A bass section full of soloists is not a good thing, IMO. There's a limit to how much of you we want to hear in that context. When I say save the fancy stuff for auditions, this is what I mean. Nobody wants you to play that way in the section, but we need to ascertain your level of musicianship at the audition. This is also why professional orchestras have probation periods, to see if you have the skill to be a section player.

 

[Neil Pye]

I hear you, but it could make it worse. A bass section full of soloists is not a good thing, IMO. There's a limit to how much of you we want to hear in that context. When I say save the fancy stuff for auditions, this is what I mean. Nobody wants you to play that way in the section, but we need to ascertain your level of musicianship at the audition. This is also why professional orchestras have probation periods, to see if you have the skill to be a section player.

Absolutely true, but we weren't talking about a tutti passage. It is possible - even desirable - to play in different ways to suit the needs of the moment. That, to me, is part of being as musical as possible. I'm not sure there's actually very much disagreement here? We all agree that in tune and in time isn't enough, surely?