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Didn't get paid for a gig :(

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#61
DWBass said:
Back to the matter at hand!

He was told he WOULD BE PAID! He has NOT BEEN PAID! In addition, seems he GETTING THE RUNAROUND! So what should he do?? If he wasn't going to be paid from the upstart, they should have made it known beforehand! I personally believe he was manipulated! He can either go after his money or chalk it up as a loss and take it as a lesson learned!
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If it was me there is no way I would let anyone steel from me.
 
#62
jthurston said:
Of course, let's not forget that (if I remember correctly) OP didn't say it was his church that stiffed him, it was the organizer of the event. So the whole church discussion may be a moot point. It may have been a simple misunderstanding between two people, for all I know. I'll bet that pastor would've signed a contract before I agreed to play, though.
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That's what I tried to point out...it isn't the pastor or the church's fault. It was one guy being greedy, as far as we know. I'll say it once more...the OP got a bad deal. I am saddened by his story.

The biggest thing I want to make clear is that churches are not bars. They are not "gigs". A music team's goal is to praise God. If that is not the goal, then the team is off mark. The church is guided by the bible. If you can't accept that, than don't go and don't participate. No harm to anyone. But you can't bring your ethics, beliefs, and practices and impose them onto the church where it is clear (hopefully) that their standard is in fact the bible.
 
#63
Warrior_Bass said:
If you come to my house and track mud on my floors, I'm going to call you out on it. The same is being done here. One comes into the church and does things apart from the way the church is established. If you aren't willing to concede that such a thing as context exists in all walks of life, than you have much bigger issues. You can't talk about church gigs without understanding why they do what they do, which should be solely based on the bible. If not, then something is wrong.
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This isn't your house and this isn't your church, this is a public international forum. That church may be established that way, however, its common sense, if you say your going to pay someone for their service, they complete the service, you pay them, simple as that.
 
#64
HometownLetdown said:
This isn't your house and this isn't your church, this is a public international forum. That church may be established that way, however, its common sense, if you say your going to pay someone for their service, they complete the service, you pay them, simple as that.
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I wasn't talking about this forum, I was talking about the realm of worship ministry. That being said, I agree with your post.
 
#66
Kwesi said:
Warrior_Bass, you are one funny dude. Also, thanks to you and you alone, it is very likely that this thread will get locked. Right on, brah.
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Unfortunately when people defend the bible it gets hairy. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but trying to expand an understanding of what this ministry entails (been in it nearly a decade). If it gets locked, no harm done. It was only a venting post anyway.
 
#71
Religion itself was barely discussed, let alone attacked, until you brought it up. Religion is secondary to this entire issue but it seems like you want it to be at the forefront. You can play the victim all you want but no one is falling for it. I'm assuming the reason why most folks came into the thread was to offer a possible solution and words of advice for future gigs and gigging habits. You, at least in your first few posts did neither and don't seem to have contributed much to the thread besides derailing it. So do you plan on throwing gasoline on the fire are you gonna help our man out?

Bottom line:

OP was promised payment. He was not given payment and the band leader has seemingly tried his utmost to avoid doing so.
 
#73
Re the suggestion about putting up a blog, naming names, etc... man, I don't know that I'd go there.

Unless there is a written contract the OP can reference (and post on the blog), it's becomes his word against the church's in a public forum. Was the church in the wrong? Clearly. No argument or defense there. But as far as I know there are still libel and slander laws on the books and to launch a big campaign against this church on the Internet... with nothing to substantiate the grievance beyond the OP's verbal representation... just feels like it might be opening up more trouble than it's worth.
 
#76
Warrior_Bass said:
The biggest thing I want to make clear is that churches are not bars. They are not "gigs". A music team's goal is to praise God. If that is not the goal, then the team is off mark. The church is guided by the bible. If you can't accept that, than don't go and don't participate. No harm to anyone. But you can't bring your ethics, beliefs, and practices and impose them onto the church where it is clear (hopefully) that their standard is in fact the bible.
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To me that's how it should be but it isn't always so. Happy to discuss further but would need to be by PM as we are not to discuss religion here.

And to the glory of God doesn't mean unpaid. I expect the pastor draws a wage.
 
#77
Kwesi said:
Religion itself was barely discussed, let alone attacked, until you brought it up. Religion is secondary to this entire issue but it seems like you want it to be at the forefront. You can play the victim all you want but no one is falling for it. I'm assuming the reason why most folks came into the thread was to offer a possible solution and words of advice for future gigs and gigging habits. You, at least in your first few posts did neither and don't seem to have contributed much to the thread besides derailing it. So do you plan on throwing gasoline on the fire are you gonna help our man out?

Bottom line:

OP was promised payment. He was not given payment and the band leader has seemingly tried his utmost to avoid doing so.
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Kwesi, to be fair read your first post. It was pretty much having a go at churches, ie organized religion.

You seemed to write as if it was from personal experience but you are young. My initial reaction was to wonder whether you had the experience, and if not, what real basis there was for such a broad attack.

I find the notion of contracts with churches but not bars intriguing, and in 30 years of paid music I have never been ripped off by a church.
 
#78
fingerbun said:
Kwesi, to be fair read your first post. It was pretty much having a go at churches, ie organized religion.

You seemed to write as if it was from personal experience but you are young. My initial reaction was to wonder whether you had the experience, and if not, what real basis there was for such a broad attack.

I find the notion of contracts with churches but not bars intriguing, and in 30 years of paid music I have never been ripped off by a church.
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You've definitely gigged waaaaay longer than I have but our experiences have been different. My post was not a dig at religion as a whole only relaying my what I've found out first-hand. Maybe my area is weird but the small churches around here are questionable with cash. That's just how it is and why I'm reluctant to find another one even if they seem to make up most of the gigs around here. I did said, in my first post, that it was my experience and not a general rule.

Also, I think it's important to distinguish that even if I was bashing churches, it wouldn't mean I have anything against religion. To me, at least, churches and religion are completely separate entities. In fact a lot of my religious friends don't go to church because they disagree with what many teach. I think that shows how separate the two can be.
 
#79
If the leader of the event didn't know whether it was going to be paid, he should have told the OP up front. If the guy was going to play as a volunteer, he should have been told up front. Regardless of your religious background, to tell one person one thing and then do another is dishonest, no matter what you wrap it up in. I'm sure that pay was part of the decision. If he just wanted to worship, he could do it at his own church or according to his calling, not at the calling of someone who said they were hiring him.

It's one thing to show up at church to worship. It's another thing to attend regular rehearsals, wake up at the crack of dawn to drive to church, and being there for there for most of the day.
 
#80
Warrior_Bass said:
That's what I tried to point out...it isn't the pastor or the church's fault. It was one guy being greedy, as far as we know. I'll say it once more...the OP got a bad deal. I am saddened by his story.

The biggest thing I want to make clear is that churches are not bars. They are not "gigs". A music team's goal is to praise God. If that is not the goal, then the team is off mark. The church is guided by the bible. If you can't accept that, than don't go and don't participate. No harm to anyone. But you can't bring your ethics, beliefs, and practices and impose them onto the church where it is clear (hopefully) that their standard is in fact the bible.
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The OP stated it was a GIG. all you religious doublespeak is invalid to the argument. :scowl:
 
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