Do all high end basses need preamps?

[savit260]

what happened to talking to the sound guy?

eg. "i like to have a mid scoop for some songs when I slap but most of the time I like my mids boosted so i cut through the mix, you mind if i do that on my onboard pre?"

Who's stopping you from doing that?

 

[WarriorJoe7]

Basses can benefit from active depending on what the player wants. But is it absolutely necessary. No, because the EQ is in other places. If you are using long or cheap cords you might want one too. Or if you want control of your sound at the bass itself.

 

[namraj]

Who's stopping you from doing that?

no one, thats y i sed it! everyone was saying let the sound guy deal with tone, and leave him to it kinda thing, so i was pointing out

 

[namraj]

No I don't. I'm sure if you do then you'd want that. I'm speaking only for myself and my needs. I think that was perfectly clear from the wording.

fair nuff, i got that I was just amazed that you didn't, (I'm a big harmonic fan, and I have 2 use them 2 get my grade 8)

 

[savit260]

no one, thats y i sed it! everyone was saying let the sound guy deal with tone, and leave him to it kinda thing, so i was pointing out

The sound guy might be fine with that,.... or you might just get rolling eyes and a huff.

 

[namraj]

you might just get rolling eyes and a huff.

in which case he'll still work with you, at least you spoke 2 him and asked him, he can't really say no, but he's forewarned so will adjust acordingly.

 

[dave251]

But let's face it, sometimes people want a bass that is so unique that there is nothing out there to compare it to.

Well, I guess that's one reason I make the design that I do. No doubt about it being unique. However, from my perspective as a designer, I do like it simple, and add to that I'm going to put as much of my design, my personal input into the mix. Much as the traditional ACOUSTIC luthier would....I just take it a step further, and add a highly simplified pickup scheme and body design. In point of fact, I couldn't get the tone that I'm after with an active piezo system. For my design to function, for the piezo and mag to influence each other in the manner that produces a sound that is more than a sum of the two devices....a passive circuit is necessary.

With my MagPi design, I'm making a foray into the actual phase response and intermixing of the attack transient response of both systems. Not only does this allow a UNIQUE tone, but a tone that is very reminiscent of the acoustic bass...

So the design IS sort of a one trick pony, but a pony that can cover a lot of territory.

 

[NickyBass]

I"ve been considering a custom build for a while now. When the stars line up with a builder that will do what I want, I may just buy one. It's going to have to be exactly what I want though, and that would be a totaly passive bass with a spit coil P/U.

This is what I've been abusing lately:

Might be just what you described.

 

[NickyBass]

Well, I guess that's one reason I make the design that I do. No doubt about it being unique. However, from my perspective as a designer, I do like it simple, and add to that I'm going to put as much of my design, my personal input into the mix. Much as the traditional ACOUSTIC luthier would....I just take it a step further, and add a highly simplified pickup scheme and body design. In point of fact, I couldn't get the tone that I'm after with an active piezo system. For my design to function, for the piezo and mag to influence each other in the manner that produces a sound that is more than a sum of the two devices....a passive circuit is necessary.

With my MagPi design, I'm making a foray into the actual phase response and intermixing of the attack transient response of both systems. Not only does this allow a UNIQUE tone, but a tone that is very reminiscent of the acoustic bass...

So the design IS sort of a one trick pony, but a pony that can cover a lot of territory.

I've always dug the look of your basses. I haven't had a chance to play one yet, but hopefully one day I will.

 

[savit260]

in which case he'll still work with you, at least you spoke 2 him and asked him, he can't really say no, but he's forewarned so will adjust acordingly.

HA! Yeah, adjust accordingly by dropping you out of the mix.

 

[JimmyM]

Spade, how come whenever someone mentions that they don't like custom basses with active electronics and more than 4 strings, or makes a joke about it, you get all defensive and you act like it's a personal attack? You've apparently got some sort of complex about it. Listen, I don't give two rat's butts what you play...I'll more than likely never hear you, and even if I do, what do you care about what I like? Why is it so important to you to get those of us who like Fendery tones to want to play your style of basses? And why do you get so snotty about it and put words in people's mouths over it?

Relax. Nobody cares what you play, so play what you want and quit trying to force your tonal goals on all of us. I don't want to play a bass like yours and I never will. And neither will Savit. So go do your thing, and we'll go do ours.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Apparently yeah. I don't want an active pre in my bass, so clearly I'm a "Rube" who has no idea what it's like to play a "good" bass, let alone play in a working band on a stage someplace. I clearly have NO CLUE what works best for me. Maybe I should stay home and practice untill I'm good enough to play something more than "Smoke On the Water" with my thumbs, and need and active pre-amp.
(sarcasm)

Did people even come close to saying any of that in this thread? That seems pretty defensive, sarcasm or not.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Of course not. The operative phrase is "on the fly" in his remark. I find it sufficient to the purpose at hand to alter my technique a bit for perhaps half a tune and do it very naturally. When the song is over is the time when I may futz around with knobs or explain things to the soundguy on a break if necessary.

But guess what, after all the changes are made the soundguy can still screw it up all over again.

Edit: However, I usually find it difficult to hear the FOH bass tone from the stage so it's very likely I may not know what the sound out there is like at all times.

What you find sufficient really has no bearing on what someone else may want to do on the fly at their bass. For the majority of people who want to make changes, how many do you think do it with their hands, how many would find hand changes get them what they want?


Waiting until after a song is over doesn't exactly help the song.

 

[WarriorJoe7]

who said there was going to be a soundguy every time you pick up your bass?

 

[mongo2]

What you find sufficient really has no bearing on what someone else may want to do on the fly at their bass. For the majority of people who want to make changes, how many do you think do it with their hands, how many would find hand changes get them what they want?


Waiting until after a song is over doesn't exactly help the song.

None of that matters at all, if it works for me I'm fine with it.

 

[savit260]

Did people even come close to saying any of that in this thread? That seems pretty defensive, sarcasm or not.

I think that was a fairly appropriate, yet sarcastic reply to the condiscending comment I was responding to.


I've got nothing to be defensive about. You may be reading a bit too much into that post. I'm happy as hell with the basses I choose to work with, even if they don't meet Spade2u's standards/requirements.

I still might dig a passive custom though.

 

[spade2you]

Spade, how come whenever someone mentions that they don't like custom basses with active electronics and more than 4 strings, or makes a joke about it, you get all defensive and you act like it's a personal attack? You've apparently got some sort of complex about it. Listen, I don't give two rat's butts what you play...I'll more than likely never hear you, and even if I do, what do you care about what I like? Why is it so important to you to get those of us who like Fendery tones to want to play your style of basses? And why do you get so snotty about it and put words in people's mouths over it?

Relax. Nobody cares what you play, so play what you want and quit trying to force your tonal goals on all of us. I don't want to play a bass like yours and I never will. And neither will Savit. So go do your thing, and we'll go do ours.

Bucko, the problem with this thread is that there are too many uninformed opinions that are spouting useless info. Quite frankly most of the useless opinions are coming from people who don't use high end basses, which is what this is about. As another guy who dislikes high end basses, why are you even here, too? I get that you and Savit don't play slap, stuff above the 10th fret, take solos, etc. Those of us who do know that a good pre and knowing how to use it is very valuable. Unfortunately, it's not all in the fingers. If it were, there would be a multitude of instructional DVDs and we would all own them.

 

[savit260]

What you find sufficient really has no bearing on what someone else may want to do on the fly at their bass. For the majority of people who want to make changes, how many do you think do it with their hands, how many would find hand changes get them what they want?

(Raises hand while sitting at computer desk) I do.

Exactly the point we're making here. What works for us is different than what may work for the next guy.


Again, if it works for him, or for me what's that matter to you?


If you want all kinds of tone control from your bass, by all means, play an active bass. I don't see anyone here saying you shouldn't. Theres just a few of us trying to explain why we don't want to, yet might still want a nice custom build.

Seems pretty simple to me.

 

[savit260]

Bucko, the problem with this thread is that there are too many uninformed opinions that are spouting useless info. Quite frankly most of the useless opinions are coming from people who don't use high end basses, which is what this is about. As another guy who dislikes high end basses, why are you even here, too? I get that you and Savit don't play slap, stuff above the 10th fret, take solos, etc. Those of us who do know that a good pre and knowing how to use it is very valuable. Unfortunately, it's not all in the fingers. If it were, there would be a multitude of instructional DVDs and we would all own them.

I don't dislike high end basses. Hell, I just enquired about a Skjold LP-B. Beautiful bass IMO. There are some Ristolla's that I really like too, just to name a few.


So, are you saying that because I don't slap, I not qualified to own a high end bass?
(note, I never said anything derogitory about slapping. It's cool and all, just not a method I use personaly)

So my hand made Bacchus, and a Pre CBS Fender aren't "High End" enough for you?

I've played plenty about the 10th fret guy. Why do you just make these assumptions?


I don't take solo's with the bands I'm playing with now, but guess what.. those aren't the only two bands I've ever played in. Played stuff from a lot of different genres over the years, yet you make all these assumptions about my playing.

Why do you continue to be so condiscending to people who simply have different requirements than you?

I'm glad you get the sound you want from your pre's. Honestly, that's fantastic. I've seen pics of your Conklin. Looks like a great bass.
P.S. One of my favorite bass players, John Jordan plays a Conklin.

Why do you begrudge those of us who don't wan't that for our sound? I'm uninformed because I don't use the same equipment you choose to?


If we both ordered custom pants, would they have to be the same size as yours for you to be happy too?

 

[spade2you]

I don't dislike high end basses. Hell, I just enquired about a Skjold LP-B. Beautiful bass IMO. There are some Ristolla's that I really like too, just to name a few.


So, are you saying that because I don't slap, I not qualified to own a high end bass?
(note, I never said anything derogitory about slapping. It's cool and all, just not a method I use personaly)

So my hand made Bacchus, and a Pre CBS Fender aren't "High End" enough for you?

I've played plenty about the 10th fret guy. Why do you just make these assumptions?


I don't take solo's with the bands I'm playing with now, but guess what.. those aren't the only two bands I've ever played in. Played stuff from a lot of different genres over the years, yet you make all these assumptions about my playing.

Why do you continue to be so condiscending to people who simply have different requirements than you?

I'm glad you get the sound you want from your pre's. Honestly, that's fantastic. I've seen pics of your Conklin. Looks like a great bass.
P.S. One of my favorite bass players, John Jordan plays a Conklin.

Why do you begrudge those of us who don't wan't that for our sound? I'm uninformed because I don't use the same equipment you choose to?


If we both ordered custom pants, would they have to be the same size as yours for you to be happy too?

Assumptions yes, but 2 out of 3 ain't bad. I'm not saying you're unqualified to use an active bass, but it's a bold and pointless statement to enforce that users don't need it unless you know what they're doing or not doing. On the same token, the really nice active systems often have a passive mode that sounds nice, and/or the pre has enough head room that they can simulate vintage and modern tones. Also, active does not necessarily mean that a bass has active pickups. A passive pickup with a good active pre often sounds somewhat similar to passive systems until the EQ is engaged. You can get passive sounds from a good active bass, but you can't always get active tones from a passive bass. And by high end, I mean custom. I'm not lumping Fender and Fodera et al in the same category.

I'll admit that some get boutique for looks or comfort, but like a Ferarri, most dudes don't buy it to drive in the slow lane.