Do all high end basses need preamps?

[mongo2]

Bucko, the problem with this thread is that there are too many uninformed opinions that are spouting useless info. Quite frankly most of the useless opinions are coming from people who don't use high end basses, which is what this is about.

Early Sukop and US Lakland here. Yes, they have on-board preamps. No, I don't feel the need tweak them on the fly.

Yes, I also have passive instruments and some of them aren't really on the "high" end of the scale. But I can still get them to sound great.

Edit: I also played a Pedulla and an Alembic for a while.

 

[savit260]

Assumptions yes, but 2 out of 3 ain't bad. I'm not saying you're unqualified to use an active bass, but it's a bold and pointless statement to enforce that users don't need it unless you know what they're doing or not doing. On the same token, the really nice active systems often have a passive mode that sounds nice, and/or the pre has enough head room that they can simulate vintage and modern tones. Also, active does not necessarily mean that a bass has active pickups. A passive pickup with a good active pre often sounds somewhat similar to passive systems until the EQ is engaged. You can get passive sounds from a good active bass, but you can't always get active tones from a passive bass. And by high end, I mean custom. I'm not lumping Fender and Fodera et al in the same category.

I'll admit that some get boutique for looks or comfort, but like a Ferarri, most dudes don't buy it to drive in the slow lane.

Do you really think I've never played a high end active bass?

This ain't my first Rodeo here guy.

Actually Zip for 3 as I see it. My Fenders price tag is certainly up in the Clouds these days. 64 P bassses don't come cheap. (i'm defining "high end" by price. I could easliy pay for a Fodera if I was to sell my Fender. Maybe two)

Again, Bacchus is not exactly chopped liver here either. Super high end, no, but extreemly well made hand crafted bass.

My old instro Avante Hard Trio, I'd take a solo here and there. So... looks like you missed on all three counts.

Here's the thing, and I'll try to make this as clear as I can.

I want simplicity in my "working" basses. Yes, I gig them regularly, and I'm pretty sure JimmyM's stuff sees plenty of stage time as well. Not like either of us are talking out our exaust pipes when it comes to what we need in a "live" setting. Niether of us are exactly uninformed when it comes to live work.

That means I don't want to have to noodle with knobs to get my sound. I prefer for me, in my working basses(not for you) to just put volume and tone to wide open, with a good sounding bass, and go from there. If I get slammed into while I'm playing, and the knobs move....right back to wide open and everything is cool. It's happened before. I've even had people reach up and hit the controls. I don't want to have to search through a bunch of knobs to get it back. Both back to wide open and we're in business.

So even if I can get a great passive sound with an active bass, I don't have the simplicity I desire in a "working" instrument. Now that doesn't mean that I might not want somthing with custom specs, or a real nice build quality.

Dead battery's is something else I'll never have to deal with in a passive bass. Yup, some actives have a passive bypass, but still, more complicated than what I want. I don't want to have to deal with it in any way shape or form...ever.

See, I don't want to have to "simulate" vintage tone. I prefer to get it the old fashond way. A nice p/u, in a bass that I like into a nice all tube head works just dandy for me. Again, nice and simple.


Much less to go wrong too. Two pots a couple of wires and a jack is about as basic and bulletproof as it gets. I like that concept for my working basses.


If I can get the sound I want out of a very simple electronics package, what do I need all that other stuff for? Agian, I'm speaking only for ME, and my needs.


Like playing Gypsy Jazz guitar with a humungous pedal board. If I'm not using it, why do I want it there in the first place? You never know when a Django-esque guitar run is going to need some wah pedal, or an Octavia right? (sarcasm)
It's just a bunch of stuff to get in my way In my own humble opinion.


Is it so wrong to want a nice simple bulletproof electronics package, in a finely made bass?

IMO everything listed above are perfectly legit reasons to want to go passive in a finely made bass for my own personal use. YMMV.

 

[spade2you]

Do you really think I've never played a high end active bass?

This ain't my first Rodeo here guy.

Actually Zip for 3 as I see it. My Fenders price tag is certainly up in the Clouds these days. 64 P bassses don't come cheap. (i'm defining "high end" by price. I could easliy pay for a Fodera if I was to sell my Fender. Maybe two)

Again, Bacchus is not exactly chopped liver here either. Super high end, no, but extreemly well made hand crafted bass.

My old instro Avante Hard Trio, I'd take a solo here and there. So... looks like you missed on all three counts.

Here's the thing, and I'll try to make this as clear as I can.

I want simplicity in my "working" basses. Yes, I gig them regularly, and I'm pretty sure JimmyM's stuff sees plenty of stage time as well. Not like either of us are talking out our exaust pipes when it comes to what we need in a "live" setting. Niether of us are exactly uninformed when it comes to live work.

That means I don't want to have to noodle with knobs to get my sound. I prefer for me, in my working basses(not for you) to just put volume and tone to wide open, with a good sounding bass, and go from there. If I get slammed into while I'm playing, and the knobs move....right back to wide open and everything is cool. It's happened before. I've even had people reach up and hit the controls. I don't want to have to search through a bunch of knobs to get it back. Both back to wide open and we're in business.

So even if I can get a great passive sound with an active bass, I don't have the simplicity I desire in a "working" instrument. Now that doesn't mean that I might not want somthing with custom specs, or a real nice build quality.

Dead battery's is something else I'll never have to deal with in a passive bass. Yup, some actives have a passive bypass, but still, more complicated than what I want. I don't want to have to deal with it in any way shape or form...ever.

See, I don't want to have to "simulate" vintage tone. I prefer to get it the old fashond way. A nice p/u, in a bass that I like into a nice all tube head works just dandy for me. Again, nice and simple.


Much less to go wrong too. Two pots a couple of wires and a jack is about as basic and bulletproof as it gets. I like that concept for my working basses.


If I can get the sound I want out of a very simple electronics package, what do I need all that other stuff for? Agian, I'm speaking only for ME, and my needs.


Like playing Gypsy Jazz guitar with a humungous pedal board. If I'm not using it, why do I want it there in the first place? You never know when a Django-esque guitar run is going to need some wah pedal, or an Octavia right? (sarcasm)
It's just a bunch of stuff to get in my way In my own humble opinion.


Is it so wrong to want a nice simple bulletproof electronics package, in a finely made bass?

So I was wrong THEN, but it looks like not too far off currently, not that I care. Now if you really want to prove me wrong, find a bunch of dudes who slap, play in the upper register, and take solos. Chances are, 9 out of 10 are going to be active dudes.

As for passive basses being bullet proof, I once had issues with a jack going bad. We're all subject to that stuff. The notion that active basses are constantly failing is fun but I've never had a problem with this. One of my Peaveys had the original batteries in it for years and I finally changed it, because it was going on for 3 years and I had a bunch of 9V batteries.

 

[savit260]

So I was wrong THEN, but it looks like not too far off currently, not that I care. Now if you really want to prove me wrong, find a bunch of dudes who slap, play in the upper register, and take solos. Chances are, 9 out of 10 are going to be active dudes.

As for passive basses being bullet proof, I once had issues with a jack going bad. We're all subject to that stuff. The notion that active basses are constantly failing is fun but I've never had a problem with this. One of my Peaveys had the original batteries in it for years and I finally changed it, because it was going on for 3 years and I had a bunch of 9V batteries.

Are you implying that because I play music that you don't approve of, that I shouldn't be able to have a high quality bass built for myself? I hope that's not the case, but it sure sounds like it. And that I don't play at the 24th fret or slap with my band either, it's NO NICE BASS FOR YOU MIKE!

I'm not trying to prove you wrong Spade, I'm simply pointing out that actives aren't for everyone, and I've tried at length to explain why. I'm sure that slappers would LOVE the active pre, but like I said before, not everyone who wants a finely built bass slaps. Why are you discounting those who don't? Do only slappers want nice basses? I doubt that's the case.


Sure, a jack can go bad in any bass, but you'll never hear of a dead battery in a passive bass, or a pot comming off a board on a passive bass. If it doesn't have those parts, they aren't going to ever fail.

 

[spade2you]

Are you implying that because I play music that you don't approve of, that I shouldn't be able to have a high quality bass built for myself? I hope that's not the case, but it sure sounds like it. And that I don't play at the 24th fret or slap with my band either, it's NO NICE BASS FOR YOU MIKE!

I'm not trying to prove you wrong Spade, I'm simply pointing out that actives aren't for everyone, and I've tried at length to explain why. I'm sure that slappers would LOVE the active pre, but like I said before, not everyone who wants a finely built bass slaps. Why are you discounting those who don't? Do only slappers want nice basses? I doubt that's the case.


Sure, a jack can go bad in any bass, but you'll never hear of a dead battery in a passive bass, or a pot comming off a board on a passive bass. If it doesn't have those parts, they aren't going to ever fail.

Pots coming off, that's a new one. That will keep me up at night now. It's also rare that a battery will simply die out of the blue.

I'm not saying anyone deserves or doesn't deserve a nice bass, but those who slap, solo, and or play in the upper register basically will use active electronics.

 

[BurningSkies]

I don't slap, solo, or play in the upper register. I'm looking forward to the delivery of my 'high end' custom, complete with preamp.

The reality is a bass only needs what the owner wants it to have. All the rest is just talk.

I've decided that I'd like to be able to boost my lows from my bass rather than my amp so I can present 'my sound' at the line level stage of my chain. Thus, preserving an integral part of my tone at the board.

I love my passive Fenders, but they don't offer me some of the important features of my high end number one bass. Not coincidentally, I hate tweaking knobs while playing if I can avoid it. My current 2K+ bass has no preamp and it only has one vol, one tone and a switch.

 

[savit260]

Pots coming off, that's a new one. That will keep me up at night now. It's also rare that a battery will simply die out of the blue.

I'm not saying anyone deserves or doesn't deserve a nice bass, but those who slap, solo, and or play in the upper register basically will use active electronics.

Again, are slappers the only bass players out there?

The pots aren't connected to a circut board? Umm... I think they are. I have had a circut board failure in an amp. No reason to believe it couldn't happen in a bass.

I think I gave a whole lot of other reasons other than dead batteries. Most revolved around simplicity.

Clearly, for slappers, there are a ton of high end active basses to chose from.

No ones telling you guys who need or want pre's not to buy basses without them. No one's forcing you to play passive basses. No one is critisizing you for wanting or playing active electronics.

Unbelievable that you don't get that.

Is it so ubeleivable to think that some people might not want an on board pre amp?

 

[spade2you]

Again, are slappers the only bass players out there?

Yes, that is exactly what I said. 100% My hand is on a bible.

I am now going to carry a fire extinquisher in my gig bag in case my circuit board catches fire and singes my curly q's.

 

[capnsandwich]

I've decided that I'd like to be able to boost my lows from my bass rather than my amp so I can present 'my sound' at the line level stage of my chain. Thus, preserving an integral part of my tone at the board.

I find that a good thing about an onboard preamp. I don't like tweaking my amp all the time since I've spent so much time finding out exactly how I want it to sound. Sometimes I go to a show and since every building and crowd is different, you'll need your bass to put out different tones for different places. Sometimes a scooped mid sound sounds great in small, less crowded venues but in a large hall full of people you simply won't get heard over the crowd and PA so I like to boost the mids without going over to my amp after every song. The active preamp is a great asset to THOSE WHO FEEL THEY NEED IT!!!

 

[savit260]

Yes, that is exactly what I said. 100% My hand is on a bible.

I am now going to carry a fire extinquisher in my gig bag in case my circuit board catches fire and singes my curly q's.

Well you're acting like slappers and people who play a lot in the upper registeres, are the only ones who's needs matter.

Apparently my needs don't matter at all, or so it would seem.


May I recomend an asbestos control cavity cover.

We all seem to know the advantages of pre's. There are also advantages to passive. I prefer passive. I also like nice basses... I know...it's a crime isn't it?

 

[mongo2]

I want simplicity in my "working" basses...Much less to go wrong too. Two pots a couple of wires and a jack is about as basic and bulletproof as it gets. I like that concept for my working basses.

Hear ya...I've DIY'd several passives with no controls at all, just one pickup straight to the jack. I've also bypassed the controls in several factory instruments.

 

[Dave Siff]

The one high-end custom bass I ever had built for me was passive. I simply wanted to hear the pure sound of an instrument built by a world-class luthier. I thought of it like having a violin built: pick out great pieces of wood, put them together expertly and let's hear it. The results were pretty darn good.
Nothing against active basses, I own one and have played many that I liked, but a great-sounding passive bass just works better for me.

 

[bassdaddy5]

Wow, some really off topic replies.

In regards to your first question, everyone needs a preamp be it inboard, outboard or built into a head. It is my experience that inboard preamps sound different then those outboard or built into a head. As each outboard sounds different as well. Having an onboard pre doesn't eliminate the need for anoutboard pre though.

It doesn't simply add to the cost if it is built into the design any time you change the off the shelf design be it an addition or deletion it may add to the cost, this is going to depend on the builder/manufacturer. You can't say with certainty that going passive will save you money, you'd have to inquire with the builder.

You could certainly own one "good" outboard pre and use it for all your passive basses. I know many bass players in NYC started using active basses so they could always have their sound even when a backline was provided, back then amp and/or preamp technology wasn't where it is today.

These days many basses are designed to work with an active circuit and others are not, some can go either way. If you have a preference one way or the other it's probably best to look at a design that matches your preference.

This was the answer I was looking for. When I started this thread, the last I wanted to do was to start the debate of active vs. passive. We all like different basses for different reasons so lets just leave it alone. I was just thinking a good outboard preamp would be good enough. For some it probably would. I have come the conclusion that on board preamps are a good thing. If you don't need, just don't use it. But there will probably come a day you'll be glad you have it. Thanks to all who gave there opinions on the "subject"

 

[JimmyM]

Bucko, the problem with this thread is that there are too many uninformed opinions that are spouting useless info. Quite frankly most of the useless opinions are coming from people who don't use high end basses, which is what this is about. As another guy who dislikes high end basses, why are you even here, too? I get that you and Savit don't play slap, stuff above the 10th fret, take solos, etc. Those of us who do know that a good pre and knowing how to use it is very valuable. Unfortunately, it's not all in the fingers. If it were, there would be a multitude of instructional DVDs and we would all own them.

Actually, I can't speak for Savit, but you would be totally wrong about me. I DO play slap (occasionally), and I play a lot above the 10th fret, and I do take solos. Don't presume to know my style by the bass I play.

And since when is this a thread only for people who like high end basses? You think playing one makes you special or gives you some special knowledge that everyone else doesn't have? I don't think so. However, just so I can be qualified to speak in this thread under your terms, let me again remind you that I have two high end basses with preamps. That doesn't make me special, though, and unlike you, I don't pretend it does.

No, what makes me special is that I play very well no matter what bass I play. It IS all in the fingers, and there ARE a multitude of instructional DVD's out there. The only difference is that instead of owning them, most people just go to Youtube and watch them.

Also, I am not Bucko.

 

[savit260]

No, he's Buck O.
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[spade2you]

And since when is this a thread only for people who like high end basses?

Since it was called DO ALL HIGH END BASSES NEED PREAMPS.

 

[xk49w]

... plus I hear rumors of needing to load the pups...

I wonder if anyone has loaded a pickup with a transimpedance amplifier...?

 

[JimmyM]

Way to ignore everything else.

Listen Spade, I will participate in any thread I want, and you don't have a thing to say about it.

 

[Human Bass]

It has been said before, but...

ANTHONY JACKSON.
ANTHONY JACKSON.
ANTHONY JACKSON.
ANTHONY JACKSON.

 

[savit260]

Since it was called DO ALL HIGH END BASSES NEED PREAMPS.

I've seen you post in SX threads or maybe it was "cheapo" thread....or both.

I didn't see anyone trying to throw you out...

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