It moves the overall mass of the tuners closer to the body, so it helps avoid neck dive.
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Do Stingrays have the infamous dead spot??
- Thread starter pingvuiini
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- stingray dead spot
It was a Metro, so I don't think it ever went near Roger
And no I didn't bother contacting them. I figured if I chose to downtune the instrument then it was on me, since it was fine in standard tuning.
Stingray dead spot?
Yes the entire "G" string! Well not dead actually but seems quieter and not because of absolute volume but because there is less bottom. Easy to see with a VU meter and listening.
I've had 3 Stingrays and all have had minor dead spots at C# / D position on G string.
Same with Fender and G&L.
Yes the entire "G" string! Well not dead actually but seems quieter and not because of absolute volume but because there is less bottom. Easy to see with a VU meter and listening.
I've had 3 Stingrays and all have had minor dead spots at C# / D position on G string.
Same with Fender and G&L.
Agree. The infamous dead spots, especially the C on the G string, is a "feature", not a bug
. All 4-string Fenders and FSO's have this dead spot and 5 strings too to some degree. It's not a quality issue, it's just inherent to a stick of wood of that general length and shape.The main thing (tho not the only thing) that determines how bad it is and its general location is the weight on the headstock. I have found over the years that lighter tuners tend to make the dead spot more prominent. Basses with the old school tuners made out of Plutonium tend not to have it as bad.
For example, my Tony Franklin's dead spot is virtually undetectable, but it has 100lbs of steel on its headstock. My Jaco Artist has hardly any dead spot either, with its tonnage on the headstock too.
OTOH, my L2000 E series reissue has the "worst" dead spot at the C on the G of any bass I've ever owned. The whole thing buzzes my left hand when I hit that note. And the G on the D, and the open G too, are also dead. But its headstock is very light, with the G&L aluminum tuners.
All this is just a roundabout way of saying don't worry about your deadspots on your Fenders and FSO's. Think of them as "character" instead, which remind you of the quality and spirit of the Fender bass you have in your hands. That dead spot has been in popular music for over 60 years and when you pick up your Fender bass, you're participating in that history too!
If it does bother you, though, you can sometimes treat it by adding weight to the headstock. I've seen lead weights, coins, etc. stuck to the back with double-sided 3M tape, weights clamped on with little clamps and so on and sometimes that will help deaden it.
But above all don't throw your strings or your bass away. It's "supposed to be like that" and there's nothing wrong with it. Enjoy it!
L
I totally agree!
I doubt if neck dive was in Leo's mind when he went 3 + 1. Otherwise, he would have gone to the good old 2 + 2.
You are correct, but the magnitude of the effect from that detail is pretty minimal. If they used lighter tuners, it would help a heck of a lot more than moving one a few inches. One tuner that's half the weight has the same effect on balance as keeping the mass the same, but moving it halfway to the center of the body. 4 tuners at half the weight - that's significant.
Agree. The infamous dead spots, especially the C on the G string, is a "feature", not a bug
The main thing (tho not the only thing) that determines how bad it is and its general location is the weight on the headstock. I have found over the years that lighter tuners tend to make the dead spot more prominent. Basses with the old school tuners made out of Plutonium tend not to have it as bad.
L
Plutonium tuners? How "explosive"! ha ha ha Love your illustration! The ultimate in sustain!
The Tony Franklin has the distinct advantage of being a fretless - as every other note also has less sutain, a dead spot is less noticeable in the grand scheme of things.
I've had much more luck mitigating dead spots by reducing headstock weight than by increasing it. If done in conjuction with lighter, stiffer necks (see my previous post) it's a reliable strategy for reducing the effect of the neck's resonance in that area.
You should feel it when you pick it up. It's got not only the old El Cheapo Fender tuners but also the Hipshot drop-D tuner on the E as well. I've had basses with neck dive but I've never had one with as much neck dive as the Tony Franklin. That headstock weighs more than the body....
I just play it seated, sitting on the strap to hold it in place. If I had to gig with it, though, I'd basically have to replace the tuners with lighter ones - it's nearly impossible to play standing up on the strap.
For me anyway, because of my left hand technique. Tony Franklin has a technique like Billy Sheehan, Jack Bruce and others where neck dive doesn't bug him but he's still a virtuoso so naturally his bass has all the tonnage on the headstock....
L
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Agree. The infamous dead spots, especially the C on the G string, is a "feature", not a bug
The main thing (tho not the only thing) that determines how bad it is and its general location is the weight on the headstock. I have found over the years that lighter tuners tend to make the dead spot more prominent. Basses with the old school tuners made out of Plutonium tend not to have it as bad.
For example, my Tony Franklin's dead spot is virtually undetectable, but it has 100lbs of steel on its headstock. My Jaco Artist has hardly any dead spot either, with its tonnage on the headstock too.
OTOH, my L2000 E series reissue has the "worst" dead spot at the C on the G of any bass I've ever owned. The whole thing buzzes my left hand when I hit that note. And the G on the D, and the open G too, are also dead. But its headstock is very light, with the G&L aluminum tuners.
All this is just a roundabout way of saying don't worry about your deadspots on your Fenders and FSO's. Think of them as "character" instead, which remind you of the quality and spirit of the Fender bass you have in your hands. That dead spot has been in popular music for over 60 years and when you pick up your Fender bass, you're participating in that history too!
If it does bother you, though, you can sometimes treat it by adding weight to the headstock. I've seen lead weights, coins, etc. stuck to the back with double-sided 3M tape, weights clamped on with little clamps and so on and sometimes that will help deaden it.
But above all don't throw your strings or your bass away. It's "supposed to be like that" and there's nothing wrong with it. Enjoy it!
L
Funny how this subject popped up just as I decided to play my 1995 MIM Jazz 5 tonight at a gig, instead of my 1990 SR5.
I used the Jazz at a couple of recent practices including this past Wednesday when we went over Gold Dust Woman with a couple of new members. At the end of the tune the bass does a high run starting at the 10th fret on the G, and wow that Jazz is just so much meatier up there. The B is not so good on the Jazz, but the E and A are good.
One problem with the Ray is they radius the pole pieces (to the neck radius) meaning the A pole piece is highest and the G and B string pole pieces are the lowest. So you tilt the pickup toward the G, but it reduces the volume of the B. I got a sub Ray 5 about 3 years ago and they didn't radius pole pieces on it. I may try a new pickup in the Ray. Meanwhile I got the MXR 10 band EQ a couple of years ago to boost the 125 hz and it helps, but the Jazz with a compressor can really sustain those high notes. I worked with the Jazz last night with my MXR M-80, if you engage the distortion channel but dial the drive and mix back to around 9 o'clock, it beefs up the sound nicely giving it a bit of edge, too.
I used the Jazz at a couple of recent practices including this past Wednesday when we went over Gold Dust Woman with a couple of new members. At the end of the tune the bass does a high run starting at the 10th fret on the G, and wow that Jazz is just so much meatier up there. The B is not so good on the Jazz, but the E and A are good.
One problem with the Ray is they radius the pole pieces (to the neck radius) meaning the A pole piece is highest and the G and B string pole pieces are the lowest. So you tilt the pickup toward the G, but it reduces the volume of the B. I got a sub Ray 5 about 3 years ago and they didn't radius pole pieces on it. I may try a new pickup in the Ray. Meanwhile I got the MXR 10 band EQ a couple of years ago to boost the 125 hz and it helps, but the Jazz with a compressor can really sustain those high notes. I worked with the Jazz last night with my MXR M-80, if you engage the distortion channel but dial the drive and mix back to around 9 o'clock, it beefs up the sound nicely giving it a bit of edge, too.
No, it's just as bad on fretlesses also. I had a fretless L2000 for about 20 years as my main instrument (may it R.I.P) and it had the same horrific dead spot on the C on the G string that my current fretted one does.
If I did replace the tuners on my Tony Franklin, I wouldn't be surprised if the dead spot got worse....
L
Agree. The infamous dead spots, especially the C on the G string, is a "feature", not a bug
The main thing (tho not the only thing) that determines how bad it is and its general location is the weight on the headstock. I have found over the years that lighter tuners tend to make the dead spot more prominent. Basses with the old school tuners made out of Plutonium tend not to have it as bad.
For example, my Tony Franklin's dead spot is virtually undetectable, but it has 100lbs of steel on its headstock. My Jaco Artist has hardly any dead spot either, with its tonnage on the headstock too.
OTOH, my L2000 E series reissue has the "worst" dead spot at the C on the G of any bass I've ever owned. The whole thing buzzes my left hand when I hit that note. And the G on the D, and the open G too, are also dead. But its headstock is very light, with the G&L aluminum tuners.
All this is just a roundabout way of saying don't worry about your deadspots on your Fenders and FSO's. Think of them as "character" instead, which remind you of the quality and spirit of the Fender bass you have in your hands. That dead spot has been in popular music for over 60 years and when you pick up your Fender bass, you're participating in that history too!
If it does bother you, though, you can sometimes treat it by adding weight to the headstock. I've seen lead weights, coins, etc. stuck to the back with double-sided 3M tape, weights clamped on with little clamps and so on and sometimes that will help deaden it.
But above all don't throw your strings or your bass away. It's "supposed to be like that" and there's nothing wrong with it. Enjoy it!
L
Interesting. Having had or played Fender Basses combining over 50 years of experience, I have never had a dead spot on any Fender bass played with no amplification. I have dead spots from sound cancelation due to conflicting frequencies. Not saying there are not FBs out there with dead spots, but I must be one heck of a lucky guy I guess.
I’ve had that experience on every stingray I’ve ever played as well
On fretless ,having deadspot is a real nightmare.When I buy a bass, that is my first test.
You might be right, you might not be.
My fretless has an ebonol fingerboard (very good sustain and mwah for a fretless,which makes any reduced sustain more notecable), It has Hipshot ultralite tuners. The dead spot/reduced sustain area is very minimal. The reason people think that adding mass is the right thing to do is that you can buy a Fatfinger....and sometimes it helps
. You can't, however buy a simple, cheap device that subtracts mass from your headstock. If you could, people would be less sold on the idea that adding mass is always the way to go.
Here is an idea you might not have heard:
If you want to try adding mass to the headstock (perhaps after installing lightweight tuners, so you have some extra freedom to add some), it should be isolated from the wood by *a damping material*, like the right kind of rubber I guess.
The Fathead had no damping material.
The Fatfinger had felt? on only one side?.
Worth experimenting with a damping, rubber-like material. Maybe a "kit" with different weights and damping thicknesses for different basses.
Ok, get it done and make a lot of money. Let us know.
The material should be, like, viscous, but must have enough rubber-property to be self-recentering. Or springs.
Function should be just like an auto shock absorber.
If you want to try adding mass to the headstock (perhaps after installing lightweight tuners, so you have some extra freedom to add some), it should be isolated from the wood by *a damping material*, like the right kind of rubber I guess.
The Fathead had no damping material.
The Fatfinger had felt? on only one side?.
Worth experimenting with a damping, rubber-like material. Maybe a "kit" with different weights and damping thicknesses for different basses.
Ok, get it done and make a lot of money. Let us know.
The material should be, like, viscous, but must have enough rubber-property to be self-recentering. Or springs.
Function should be just like an auto shock absorber.
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Playing my EBMM Sterling last night, I noticed a real dead spot on E string 3rd fret. I know for a FACT that this note is normally just as prominent as the others EXCEPT on this particular stage... it sucked the life force right out of that note.
My Ray has no dead spot that I have noticed. My Sabre has no dead spot that I can detect.
Realize these are not the same bass but the neck/body/headstock are so closely and the woods are the same. Only other bass I have with no dead spot is an old Kramer. My fretlesses have it but that seems easier to cover than fretted. For me it seems the 7th on G.
Realize these are not the same bass but the neck/body/headstock are so closely and the woods are the same. Only other bass I have with no dead spot is an old Kramer. My fretlesses have it but that seems easier to cover than fretted. For me it seems the 7th on G.
I've owned over a dozen Stingrays and 4 Sterlings. They all had dead spots.
