I often don't play very high up the food chain and the monitors are often 200W cheapies and just can't push a bass. I want my amp with me.
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do we still need
- Thread starter Hiroi Kikuri
- Start date
In your first post in this thread, I see spaces between words and sentences, but none (no blank lines) between paragraphs. I think that that is the lack of spaces referred to by others.
I read your first post -- and found it worth reading -- but, at first glance, it does look a little like one big paragraph.
Counterpoint: what’s wrong with having a lot of power and speakers available?
Also, 33 isn’t a kid, I had two actual kids and a job by the time I was 32. Hate to be the one to tell you you’re a grownup now, this is it, all there is.
Just so you’re aware-I’m seeing no spaces in your post either & I did read it prior to the other poster pointing that out.
I did observe proper punctuation, no profanity & good grammar. It did resemble a stream of consciousness/run on sentence but made total sense of thought.[/QUOTE]
It was definitely a TLDR situation for me. I got through a bit of it but I agree with the stream of consciousness/run on sentences sentiment. Brevity is the soul of wit.
While addressed to the OP I took it that he was addressing every thread where exactly those are preached. Just a bit ago it was stated that "most of us here are using IE."
It could sound snarky. That would be more open to how you want to hear it.
Meanwhile this is a great topic so lets stay on that not how we parked our car.
Funny you saying that. Because the OP in a subsequent post agreed with my assessment of his original post.
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Yes, the weight will be an issue, but the fact that you won't be able to power it via a standard 120 volt outlet will be an even more inconvenient issue. Try telling every club that you're playing that you have to plug into the 50 amp 240 volt oven outlet in the kitchen (they won't be able to cook food for anyone while you play) and....see how that goes.
I do regularly play through PA rigs that have far more power than your proposed 5000 watt tube amp, so I understand the desire for more power, but those are installed in the venue; the powering was figured out long ago and incorporated when they built the place. And the subs that use all that power, yeah, they won't all fit in your van.
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Just be aware that the Genz Benz G Flex cabinet line was designed for guitar.
Your fine with having whatever you want on stage. The more important thing is knowing how to use whatever you have, in a band context, on stage (and rehearsal room).
The proper wattage is = to more than everybody else combined. Then go up from there and suit to taste
I'll just chime in and say that I find it very telling that so many responses don't seem to get the fact that he was KIDDING about the 5000 watt tube amp thing. That was very clearly a joke. Does TB really suffer from such a complete lack of a sense of humor? Wait. No need to answer that.
As far as what rig works for your situation - I'm trying hard to open my mind to the fact that situations vary, and there is no right answer. I've been stuck on the 'well, a 2x10 neo speaker with a 500 watt Class D is enough for my situation, so it should fit everyone's needs' - and the fact is, that's just not true. Also pepj pointed out the fact that I sound like crap with this setup (as I'm DI'ed into FOH). Not sure I saw him at my gig, but whatever.
Another thing to take into consideration that became VERY clear to me this past weekend is the 'better to have and not need' as a mindset. At least, to a point. The venue we played Saturday is not a super old building, but it has some massive electrical issue, and we could not find a way to get it dialed out. The PA had a persistent 60hz hum - very noticeable. The worst part was that when I plugged in my DI, it backfed that hum through my rig and was a CRAZY loud through my cab. Nothing solved it. Certainly not playable, and made me worried for my driver's lives. So, I had to carry the room (small/medium sized bar) with my 2x10/500 watt class D, no FOH support for bass. It did it, it sounded good, and actually sound engineer had me turning down, but in a bigger room - yeah, I would have liked a larger, higher performance cab. So - perhaps some additional insurance is a good thing. Even more reason to jump on the Mesa 2x12 I have my eyes on
As far as what rig works for your situation - I'm trying hard to open my mind to the fact that situations vary, and there is no right answer. I've been stuck on the 'well, a 2x10 neo speaker with a 500 watt Class D is enough for my situation, so it should fit everyone's needs' - and the fact is, that's just not true. Also pepj pointed out the fact that I sound like crap with this setup (as I'm DI'ed into FOH). Not sure I saw him at my gig, but whatever.
Another thing to take into consideration that became VERY clear to me this past weekend is the 'better to have and not need' as a mindset. At least, to a point. The venue we played Saturday is not a super old building, but it has some massive electrical issue, and we could not find a way to get it dialed out. The PA had a persistent 60hz hum - very noticeable. The worst part was that when I plugged in my DI, it backfed that hum through my rig and was a CRAZY loud through my cab. Nothing solved it. Certainly not playable, and made me worried for my driver's lives. So, I had to carry the room (small/medium sized bar) with my 2x10/500 watt class D, no FOH support for bass. It did it, it sounded good, and actually sound engineer had me turning down, but in a bigger room - yeah, I would have liked a larger, higher performance cab. So - perhaps some additional insurance is a good thing. Even more reason to jump on the Mesa 2x12 I have my eyes on
To address OP: No, you do not need mega wattage to gig with a 4-piece rock band. In a small-to-average-sized room, enough volume to monitor yourself is probably enough for the audience to hear you, too. In a larger room you will likely still be able to monitor yourself onstage while the PA delivers your bass to the audience.
I often see these comments that start something like.... "That's pretty punk rocK" in reference to someone using a substandard or completely janky piece of gear, particularly amps. I have been playing "punk rock" in one form or another since 1980 when I was 17. At least until the time period of about 2010 or so, no one really intentionally wanted to play on unreliable crappy sounding gear. Even bands trying to sound unreliable and crappy.
80's and sometime into the 90's people used Peavey gear because it was cheap and a good value for the money. It was ubiquitous but more of us wanted something nicer. Guitarists wanted Marshalls, Twin Reverbs or anything that would sound great with a distortion pedal and was loud. Porcell from Youth of Today used my Marshall to record because his tracks with the Peavey weren't great. Bassists in the 80's and into 90's the same many still played through Peavey gear even if they could afford more because it was loud and reliable. I had a Sunn head cab for a while. Others had Ampeg and in the 90's everyone wanted a fridge. Hartke started to creep in because of financial considerations but bassists had a lot of options. NO ONE intentionally used janky stuff. Everyone wanted to have decent sounding gear.
2000's was mostly Marshall half stacks and Les Paul studios or something like that. Everyone sounded the same, it was pretty boring. Bands wanting to distinguish themselves used more interesting gear sometimes but even punk rockers have sonic goals. Bassists mostly wanted good loud gear. Billy Sheehan for a while used the same Pearce gear that Robby Takac used for the early Goo Goo Dolls records. Both used it, because they liked it. Pearce was from Buffalo.
There's been a recently nostalgia trip to use the gear we used in the 80's because people like the sound of those records. A lot of people started using Old Peavey solid state guiatr amps because Greg Ginn used them. I'm fairly certain that Greg used them because, distortion box, loud and wouldn't break down getting hustled in and out of a van even day for years on end.
No one in punk rock wanted crappy gear. That isn't a thing. Stop saying it. Especially those of you that haven't ever played in any sort of halfway legit punk or hardcore band. Hell Daryl Jenifer from the Bad Brains had a 70's jazz bass with a Status replacement neck. That sounds pretty fancy to me. And no, a guitar cab being used as a bass cab is not punk rock. It's just dumb. I mean unless you have some biamp setup like Red Fang or DBA79 or something.
80's and sometime into the 90's people used Peavey gear because it was cheap and a good value for the money. It was ubiquitous but more of us wanted something nicer. Guitarists wanted Marshalls, Twin Reverbs or anything that would sound great with a distortion pedal and was loud. Porcell from Youth of Today used my Marshall to record because his tracks with the Peavey weren't great. Bassists in the 80's and into 90's the same many still played through Peavey gear even if they could afford more because it was loud and reliable. I had a Sunn head cab for a while. Others had Ampeg and in the 90's everyone wanted a fridge. Hartke started to creep in because of financial considerations but bassists had a lot of options. NO ONE intentionally used janky stuff. Everyone wanted to have decent sounding gear.
2000's was mostly Marshall half stacks and Les Paul studios or something like that. Everyone sounded the same, it was pretty boring. Bands wanting to distinguish themselves used more interesting gear sometimes but even punk rockers have sonic goals. Bassists mostly wanted good loud gear. Billy Sheehan for a while used the same Pearce gear that Robby Takac used for the early Goo Goo Dolls records. Both used it, because they liked it. Pearce was from Buffalo.
There's been a recently nostalgia trip to use the gear we used in the 80's because people like the sound of those records. A lot of people started using Old Peavey solid state guiatr amps because Greg Ginn used them. I'm fairly certain that Greg used them because, distortion box, loud and wouldn't break down getting hustled in and out of a van even day for years on end.
No one in punk rock wanted crappy gear. That isn't a thing. Stop saying it. Especially those of you that haven't ever played in any sort of halfway legit punk or hardcore band. Hell Daryl Jenifer from the Bad Brains had a 70's jazz bass with a Status replacement neck. That sounds pretty fancy to me. And no, a guitar cab being used as a bass cab is not punk rock. It's just dumb. I mean unless you have some biamp setup like Red Fang or DBA79 or something.
My own experience in gigging heavy original music? Lots of bands can and do get away with low wattage combos. They rely on FOH to fill the venue with sound.
The difference in sound quality between those bands and the bands who bring nice gear are night and day. Yes, you can mic up a spider. It still sounds like a spider. A pro sound man feeding expensive professional grade pre-amps into an expensive pro grade sound system would be another ball of wax, but that is NOT what you are dealing with at the vast majority of local dive venues.
So yeah, IME you certainly CAN get away with it if you are OK with your band sounding significantly less impressive than the other bands in the line up from tone/sound alone.
EDIT: Specifically addressing bringing a "real" rig vs some janky pawn shop combo. I'm assuming your "5000 watt tube head" was an exaggeration.
The difference in sound quality between those bands and the bands who bring nice gear are night and day. Yes, you can mic up a spider. It still sounds like a spider. A pro sound man feeding expensive professional grade pre-amps into an expensive pro grade sound system would be another ball of wax, but that is NOT what you are dealing with at the vast majority of local dive venues.
So yeah, IME you certainly CAN get away with it if you are OK with your band sounding significantly less impressive than the other bands in the line up from tone/sound alone.
EDIT: Specifically addressing bringing a "real" rig vs some janky pawn shop combo. I'm assuming your "5000 watt tube head" was an exaggeration.
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Yep, my feelings exactly. I'm open to the idea of small or ampless setups but I don't play places where you can be assured of good PA support. In fact 12 or so years ago I switched to gigging a 210 when everyone was still bringing their 410's and 810's around. At the time people thought it was novel and cute. Now everyone is using small rigs and I'm using an 810. The trouble with smaller bass setups is that you're at the mercy of someone else's competence and patience to get a good sound. If the guy just couldn't care less or isn't particularly good he's not going to support you properly and you're going to sound puny. I like to be prepared and self sufficient. I bring the fridge to most shows now because I know it'll always work. I'll always hear myself and it'll get a huge sound even if there's no PA support at all for the bass. I don't always bring it in the place. If we get there and the setup looks good I might leave it in the car but at least I'm prepared. And even still, I'm inclined to use it anyway because I like how it looks and feels to have it on stage.
I think a 410 is still the best happy medium. My 810 is overkill certainly, but nothing succeeds like excess. It helps that it's a Markbass CL108 and actually lighter than my old 410 from way back. With the casters and handle I can easily roll it any distance down a sidewalk. It's a far cry from an Ampeg 810 that's for sure. If I had to lug one of those around it'd be a different story.
As for amps, when you can fit 800w in a backpack why not? Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. 800w solid state has always felt better to me than 500w or less. More dynamic and unrestricted.
Play whatever you are comfortable with is all it should boil down to.
I do work as a 'working musician' that plays nearly any kind of venue as well as outdoor, corporate and private events. Not every gig has big adequate FOH...all I can say is; be ready, and I'd recommend having both a 'low' power as well as 'big' power amps...if anything, for the sake of being able to use one as a backup should one break down.
Also having a modular cab setup lets me be ready for easy indoor gigs with masive FOH, to playing an outdoor gig where there's a cracker jack box PA.
I do work as a 'working musician' that plays nearly any kind of venue as well as outdoor, corporate and private events. Not every gig has big adequate FOH...all I can say is; be ready, and I'd recommend having both a 'low' power as well as 'big' power amps...if anything, for the sake of being able to use one as a backup should one break down.
Also having a modular cab setup lets me be ready for easy indoor gigs with masive FOH, to playing an outdoor gig where there's a cracker jack box PA.
