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do we still need
- Thread starter Hiroi Kikuri
- Start date
Punch and dynamic range is easier to achieve if you have headroom, so I say give me more wattage 
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,035
- 5
- 220,950
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Why not a (much) better quality used cabinet?
there are Zero used cabs in my area just like hot single moms
Guitar center used is your friend. Cheap prices on big old cabs and cheap shipping. If it sucks you have 45 days to return.
Can’t help you with the moms.
Can’t help you with the moms.
Back in the day, we ran with lower watts because of the limitations of the tech at the time. Now you can get a 1200W amp that weighs 5-6 lbs and pump that into lightweight cabs that have speakers that can legitimately handle 600W RMS. FOH hasn't remained stuck in time either. Bar bands are typically running 1000W subs and 1000W mains run by iPad mixers that condense a rack or two of gear into 3-4U. Times have changed. We gig with 800W or 1200W amps because it's possible and pretty easy.
Noone has ever needed huge rigs for bar gigs.
I’m not the only person here who gigged in bars with 25-50 watt tube amps...after all, the legendary Ampeg B15 was only 30 watts.
I’m not the only person here who gigged in bars with 25-50 watt tube amps...after all, the legendary Ampeg B15 was only 30 watts.
Well...... I cant really add much to this conversation but its nice to see someone a year older than me saying they are "pretty young" especially when to anyone under the age of 25 today..... 32 and 33 is apparently "ancient".
You need to find what works best for you. If it's just bar gigs there are dozens of combo amps that will work...especially if FOH is an option. Also even more micro head + speaker combinations. There's a lot of similar posts on here like yours. It's like me telling you how to cook your steak. Good luck!
In spite of the pains of age, I wouldn't be young again if I could.
Especially the dumb young person I was... how I'm alive is amazing.
My amp these days is a light weight 500 watt head into 2 x 12 cabinet and it has never been close to being pushed hard. It probably never will. I played for around 30 years professionally with no more than a Music Man 130 watts valve head or a solid state combo also Music Man and the same applied. They were never challenged ever and they both did a huge amount of work over the years.
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To the OP: if you're running a line to FOH you're gonna be fine with as big or small of a rig as you feel like you need for your own monitoring. The audience is now the sound guy's responsibility, and as long as you're not making their life hell with a million watts of fury you're gonna be just fine with anything from IEMs to an SVT. The goal is adequate personal monitoring on stage, so your kit will depend on what that means. For some that's a 1x12 combo, for others that's a big ol' stack, and that's fine.
If you have FOH reinforcement, then all you need is a rig that you are happy with the sound of so it can be mic'd, and that it is loud enough for you to hear effectively on stage. In that case, how many speakers you need and how powerful an amp you need to run it depends entirely on how loud your group wants to play on stage. A 210 with an amp putting 400-watts into it should do the trick. in fact it does for me. I use a DNA-800 amp that puts 400-watts rms into my 8Ω DNS-210 cab (handles 700-watts). I use that set-up for all my indoor venues from small to large and that's without FOH reinforcement.
Outdoors I'll run it into my 8Ω DNS-410 (handles 1,400-watts rms), and at music festivals, I'll bring out my WT500/800 and bridge it at 800-watts into my 8Ω DNS-410. If I run the master up to 10:30 on the 800-watt Eden amp at Music Festivals, I get told to turn down, so I usually set it at 10:15 instead. Good news is I don't need to lug around an 810 cab. I could stack them both together and use my DNA-800 amp to run that 610 set-up if I wanted to, but it's easier to bring out that heavier Eden amp (~36-lbs in its rack) than it is to lug around a second cab.
Both of those DNS cabs by DNA are loud and require very little power to get to gig levels. They are loud cabs that handle a lot of power without losing their clear, clean and articulate sound. I rarely use an FOH system outside of music festivals, so I have three rigs depending on the size of the venue.
I use an Eden TN-226 (225-watts rms into 4Ω) into an Eden 4Ω EX-112 cab for small venues like brew pubs. I use my DNA-800 amp into a DNS-210 that I mount on an amp stand for the rest of my indoor venues, and I use either my DNA-800 or my Eden WT500/800 into outdoor venues depending on size of outdoor venue. My Eden WT500/800 can put out 800-watt rms into my DNS-410 at music festivals, although I've never needed all of that. I usually am mic'd at music festivals to go through their FOH and as I mentioned earlier they tell me to turn it down long before I put 800-watts through it. I am rarely mic'd elsewhere.
Relying upon sound engineer to hear yourself and the rest of the band via foldback speakers is fraught with danger. Especially where I live.
In 20+ years of gigging, I'm yet to hear anything eminating from the foldback that I'd call useful, regardless of how many times I've indicated to the sound guy that I can't hear anything at all.
The last guy came up to the stage seconds after I let him know of my predicament for the umpteenth time, placed his ear upon the foldback and said "yeah it's working".
All I could think of, besides kicking him in the teeth was Another educated knob twiddler... Nobody wants to play gigs laying down with their ears pressed firmly upon the foldback speaker.
A 100 watt 210 combo will not last 10 seconds in these conditions.
Suffice to say, IEMs are out of the question too, with plebs like this running the show.
Solution, get a bass rig that can compete and keep up or surpass loud rubber neck guitarists and low IQ knob twisting sound engineers.
What works for me is 215 cab 800 watts 4 ohms and at least 600 watt 4ohm class A or AB amp.
Feel free to use whatever low wattage, single speaker cab/amp set up you like but there will come a day when you will find yourself in a similar situation as described above and your day will quickly be flushed down the toilet.
In 20+ years of gigging, I'm yet to hear anything eminating from the foldback that I'd call useful, regardless of how many times I've indicated to the sound guy that I can't hear anything at all.
The last guy came up to the stage seconds after I let him know of my predicament for the umpteenth time, placed his ear upon the foldback and said "yeah it's working".
All I could think of, besides kicking him in the teeth was Another educated knob twiddler... Nobody wants to play gigs laying down with their ears pressed firmly upon the foldback speaker.
A 100 watt 210 combo will not last 10 seconds in these conditions.
Suffice to say, IEMs are out of the question too, with plebs like this running the show.
Solution, get a bass rig that can compete and keep up or surpass loud rubber neck guitarists and low IQ knob twisting sound engineers.
What works for me is 215 cab 800 watts 4 ohms and at least 600 watt 4ohm class A or AB amp.
Feel free to use whatever low wattage, single speaker cab/amp set up you like but there will come a day when you will find yourself in a similar situation as described above and your day will quickly be flushed down the toilet.
