Pretty sure that's a guitar cab, so maybe not the best choice for bass. Maybe @agedhorse will clarify.
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- Thread starter Hiroi Kikuri
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Pretty sure that's a guitar cab, so maybe not the best choice for bass. Maybe @agedhorse will clarify.
D
Its always better to have too much power than not enough, because you can just turn down. Theres the easiest answer.
Your individual experience doesn’t apply to everyone and possibly not even to a majority of bands gigging regularly, specifically this part;
In the area I play, I see at least twice as many bands playing without everything mic’d as those with everything mic’d. I also only see about one out of five venues with a house PA. Most places that hire bands in the are I play require the bands bring their own sound systems. I played about 130 gigs in 2022 and will likely come close to that this year. We set up a small PA (without subs) supporting vocals & kick drum / overhead at about 40% of gigs, we set up a full PA (with subs) and mic everything at about 40% of gigs and we use the house PA with everything mic’d at about 20% of gigs.
Depending on the size of the venue and the DNA of the drummer, amp needs vary….
In the area I play, I see at least twice as many bands playing without everything mic’d as those with everything mic’d. I also only see about one out of five venues with a house PA. Most places that hire bands in the are I play require the bands bring their own sound systems. I played about 130 gigs in 2022 and will likely come close to that this year. We set up a small PA (without subs) supporting vocals & kick drum / overhead at about 40% of gigs, we set up a full PA (with subs) and mic everything at about 40% of gigs and we use the house PA with everything mic’d at about 20% of gigs.
Depending on the size of the venue and the DNA of the drummer, amp needs vary….
- Feb 12, 2006
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That's a guitar cabinet with guitar speakers. Not suitable for bass except at low power.
What sort of rig do you need? First answer these questions (for yourself):
There are various forms of this 3-factor equation:
If you pay attention to the specs, you should eventually get an idea for how much headroom you need. My magic number is 124dB. I can usually make a rig capable of 118dB work, but it tends to be frustrating. My last touring rig was rated for 127dB and I never pushed it to clipping.
How to calculate a rig's volume potential. You need two things: 1. The usable power, which is the lower rating between the amp's RMS power rating and the speaker's RMS power rating. 2. The 1W/1m sensitivity rating of the cab.
Simplified Formula:
Most companies list these specs for their amps and cabs. Let's assume you have an 8 ohm cab rated for 400W and the cab has a 97dB 1W/1m sensitivity rating. You also have an amp rated for 350W at 8 ohms.
This rig would be borderline for my use. I have no idea how well it would meet your needs. Maybe it will be plenty and maybe it won't.
Now let's assume we can add a matching cab and the amp will produce 700W at 4 ohms.
Usually when you add a matching cab the connection to the amp is in parallel. The resulting total impedance is 1/2 (4 ohms), the total power handling is doubled (800W), and the combined sensitivity is +3dB (100dB 1W/1m)
Notice this is 6dB louder than one cab. The first +3dB is due to the increased sensitivity and the second +3dB is due to doubling the power.
I will restate this to make it more obvious...each doubling of power gives you +3dB. Caveat: ...assuming the speaker can handle the extra power.
Here is the sequence of doublings and the Log formula for decibel change from 1W:
You can also use the Log formula to determine the decibel change between two power levels. Let's say you have a 150W amp and 450W amp.
Log(3/1) = ~4.8.
Log(45/15) = ~4.8.
Log(9/3) = ~4.8.
Log(27/9) = ~4.8.
Log(384/128) = ~4.8.
etc.
All of these simplify to Log(3) = ~4.8.
1. How much are you willing to spend?
2. What sort of tone do you want?
3. How much weight and bulk are you willing to deal with?
4. How loud is the band?
5. How well do you want to hear yourself.
2. What sort of tone do you want?
3. How much weight and bulk are you willing to deal with?
4. How loud is the band?
5. How well do you want to hear yourself.
There are various forms of this 3-factor equation:
1. plays low, 2. plays loud, 3. cheap.
The idea is you can have 2.
If you pay attention to the specs, you should eventually get an idea for how much headroom you need. My magic number is 124dB. I can usually make a rig capable of 118dB work, but it tends to be frustrating. My last touring rig was rated for 127dB and I never pushed it to clipping.
How to calculate a rig's volume potential. You need two things: 1. The usable power, which is the lower rating between the amp's RMS power rating and the speaker's RMS power rating. 2. The 1W/1m sensitivity rating of the cab.
Simplified Formula:
Calculated SPL = [Log(Usable Power) + (Sensitivity at 1W/1m)
Most companies list these specs for their amps and cabs. Let's assume you have an 8 ohm cab rated for 400W and the cab has a 97dB 1W/1m sensitivity rating. You also have an amp rated for 350W at 8 ohms.
Usable Power = 350W
Calculated SPL = [Log(350) x 10] + 97 = ~122.4dB
This rig would be borderline for my use. I have no idea how well it would meet your needs. Maybe it will be plenty and maybe it won't.
Now let's assume we can add a matching cab and the amp will produce 700W at 4 ohms.
Usually when you add a matching cab the connection to the amp is in parallel. The resulting total impedance is 1/2 (4 ohms), the total power handling is doubled (800W), and the combined sensitivity is +3dB (100dB 1W/1m)
Calculated SPL with both cabs = [Log(700) x 10] + 100 = ~128.5dB
Notice this is 6dB louder than one cab. The first +3dB is due to the increased sensitivity and the second +3dB is due to doubling the power.
1. When you add a matching cab and the usable power doubles, you get +6dB
2. When you add a matching cab and the usable power stays the same, you get +3dB
3. Many solid state amps increase the power, but do not achieve a full doubling, so you get +4dB or +5dB.
2. When you add a matching cab and the usable power stays the same, you get +3dB
3. Many solid state amps increase the power, but do not achieve a full doubling, so you get +4dB or +5dB.
I will restate this to make it more obvious...each doubling of power gives you +3dB. Caveat: ...assuming the speaker can handle the extra power.
Here is the sequence of doublings and the Log formula for decibel change from 1W:
1W = Sensitivity Rating
2W = Sensitivity Rating +3dB = Log(2/1) x 10
4W = Sensitivity Rating +6dB = Log(4/1) x 10
8W = Sensitivity Rating +9dB = Log(8/1) x 10
16W = Sensitivity Rating +12db = Log(16/1) x 10
2W = Sensitivity Rating +3dB = Log(2/1) x 10
4W = Sensitivity Rating +6dB = Log(4/1) x 10
8W = Sensitivity Rating +9dB = Log(8/1) x 10
16W = Sensitivity Rating +12db = Log(16/1) x 10
You can also use the Log formula to determine the decibel change between two power levels. Let's say you have a 150W amp and 450W amp.
Decibel Change = Log(450/150) x 10 = 4.8dB
Anytime you have a 3 to 1 power relationship you will get a 4.8dB change.
Log(3/1) = ~4.8.
Log(45/15) = ~4.8.
Log(9/3) = ~4.8.
Log(27/9) = ~4.8.
Log(384/128) = ~4.8.
etc.
Last edited:
D
I've never needed a high powered rig. I play in a post punk band and most gigs are the amp hot off the stage. PA is only for vocals. These days I run a Mesa D-350 into a GK Neo 115 cab. So that's 175 watts. Sounds great.
OP, I think you will find that the vast majority of players on TB haul their own gear. So having something small and light is practical or essential. The paradigm has shifted away from big heavy cabs, heads, and racks. Plus a lot of players wear in ear monitors. Stage volume coming out of the bass players cabinet is often not important anymore.
You'd better sharpen your pencil when Wasnex starts posting
No. This topic comes up once a week and everyone has their opinions. For me I use a 50watt ampeg pf50t and a 112 bbc cab. I keep up with marshall stacks with or without a FOH system. Sure I have a 400+ mesa boogie full stack and a 200w solid state combo amp that also keeps up but... my back and ears enjoy my little ampeg. My eyes prefer the boogie stack.
My own experience, I have always needed a rig w/ some power because most of the venues I play don't run the bass thru FOH. Out of the last ten years I can only think of 3 or 4 occasions where I would have been OK without one.
Do I need an all tube 5000 watt monstrosity? Only if someone else is moving it for me.
Do I need an all tube 5000 watt monstrosity? Only if someone else is moving it for me.
It’s hard to go wrong with lightweight and powerful. Just decide how many speakers you want and how much you want to spend. There are no points for making a job harder.
for real, i played lots and lots of clubs and for real, Ima tell ya you can't turn up a 2 little amp loud enough to ride, and a lot of places, the PA and monitors just ain't all that
. . . so after all these years, any live bass amp under a 500 watts and two cabinets is just a waste of time for me. These days, that doesn't require several hundred pound rigs as it did for a lot of my time in the trenches. A Subway head and a pair of single 12's or 15's would be plenty, and running in a comfortable range of its available power, and you could duplicate a similar rig in any number of other brands, or any number of ways.
IF I were to show up and there is professional sound reinforcement available, sure, stack them up, plug in the direct box and we're good. Unfortunately, there are still lots of venues and clubs a lot of us play where this ISN'T the case . . . so then, I'm covered. As far as a 5000w amp, you don't buy an amp to play at the limit, you buy bigger amps to run them in their sweet spot where nothing's getting pushed, and the amp and the cabs are in control and nothing's breaking up or straining. Save distortion for a pedal.
Like electric cars, some day ampless may or will be the norm. But for now, universally walking into any possible venue and being able to go direct and ampless automatically just isn't the case.
. . . so after all these years, any live bass amp under a 500 watts and two cabinets is just a waste of time for me. These days, that doesn't require several hundred pound rigs as it did for a lot of my time in the trenches. A Subway head and a pair of single 12's or 15's would be plenty, and running in a comfortable range of its available power, and you could duplicate a similar rig in any number of other brands, or any number of ways.
IF I were to show up and there is professional sound reinforcement available, sure, stack them up, plug in the direct box and we're good. Unfortunately, there are still lots of venues and clubs a lot of us play where this ISN'T the case . . . so then, I'm covered. As far as a 5000w amp, you don't buy an amp to play at the limit, you buy bigger amps to run them in their sweet spot where nothing's getting pushed, and the amp and the cabs are in control and nothing's breaking up or straining. Save distortion for a pedal.
Like electric cars, some day ampless may or will be the norm. But for now, universally walking into any possible venue and being able to go direct and ampless automatically just isn't the case.
should i get a 115 or a 215 seismic to pair with my SVT-350 into my TRB4II and small pedal board its gonna be a (a somewhat) gigable starting point for right now till i can get something better
It's all about the sound...
A 50 watt combo into almost any cab can do a distorted punk sound at a decent volume.
A fluffy, almost acoustic sound, will require yet another head and cab, and a HiFi sound with extended 5 string lows will need yet another. Everything in between will have a sweet spot.
So... if it works for you, do it. If not, get something else.
A 50 watt combo into almost any cab can do a distorted punk sound at a decent volume.
A fluffy, almost acoustic sound, will require yet another head and cab, and a HiFi sound with extended 5 string lows will need yet another. Everything in between will have a sweet spot.
So... if it works for you, do it. If not, get something else.
The best solution probably lies somewhere between your post and the inevitable snarky posts that will follow.
First problem is that what you deem necessary and what someone else deems necessary will vary wildly.
Personally, my perceived needs drastically increased after reading TB for a while, then plateaued after trials and errors over several years, and have gradually tapered off to something I consider a reasonable balance these days. What I "needed" 5, 10, and 15 years ago was really different than what I'd consider a "need" today.
I'd say the only real "needs" if you're playing electric bass are the following.
1. Functional electric bass guitar
2. Functional fingers and supporting anatomy (including brain)
3. Functional amplification (including electricity)
Everything else is a long list of preferences, and everyone's will differ.
I never had one, but always used one at the board on bass as a FOH mixer. Once I had one built into an amp, I realized how much sense it made with many new amps.
If you study it, many old school on-stage speaker cabinets didn't have a lot of low end extension, often rolling off in the 70-80hz area, naturally high passing. Many new products go down to the 40-45hz range, which sounds good in practice, but actually doesn't work as well as expected in a lot of situations. It's the bedroom tone vs. live use.
If you're still using an SVT or old Fender or Acoustic cabinet, you probably still don't need one, because you already have one.
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