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Do you believe in ghosts?

#221
This has been pretty interesting to read, really. Obviously there are those who believe, those who accept the possibility, those who feel it's unlikely, and those who don't believe at all. Myself, I cannot say with certainty that I do believe in ghosts, but I accept that it is entirely possible based on how I feel about other things I think about (religion, afterlife, the human soul, etc.).

So here is my story of my brief journey into the occult. It was about 25 years ago and even today it sends chills up my spine. It was with an Ouija board. Go ahead, laugh. I used to. I was in high school and had some friends that were into that sort of thing. I thought it was stupid and funny, just a game people played to screw with each other. So me and my friends Wade and Andy decided to play around with the idea. Wade insisted that the most powerful ones were ones you made yourself, so we did. And we used it. We used a small drinking glass as a "pointer". Wade kinda walked us through it. And, as I expected, the thing started to move. After all, someone's always pushing it around, aren't they? We asked questions. It answered. Inside I'm thinking "this is pretty funny, most of this stuff makes no sense and the answers are ridiculous". Just a good time party game. But I figured I'd try it for myself, so I made one on my own. I asked my sister to try it out with me, KNOWING it was not going to work because....hey.....those things are bullcrap.

But it worked. The pointer started moving around when we asked questions. Again, many incomprehensible answers, errant information, etc., but it did work. I was not pushing the thing around. She was not pushing the thing around. I've thought about it over the years, here and there. Wondered if subconsciously I was moving the thing without really realizing it, but I keep coming back to the conclusion that I wasn't. And she wasn't. She was just as weirded out as I was. It got freakier and freakier each time I used it. Now, nothing strange happened, like coming home and finding it had set itself up, or the pointer moving on it's own, yadda yadda, the stuff you hear about in people's tales or see in movies, but it only took a few times for me to realize that something was happening, something beyond what I could comprehend. And on a level, my gut told me it wasn't good, it was somehow a bad thing. I called my friend Wade, who was kinda into occult type stuff and introduced me to the whole thing, told him about it, and he told me that I needed to burn the thing. So I did. And never touched another item of that type ever again.

Was it ghosts? I don't know. Demons? Possibly. Heck, I don't know what it was. But to this day I believe, deep inside of me, that there was something going on beyond the physical world. Something that we don't see, can't prove. As I got older I developed a strong faith in God (which I didn't have back then), and came to the conclusion that I had dabbled into something that I shouldn't have, something "evil". The logical side of me tells me that it's foolish to believe that it was what I interpreted it to be. After all, if it were that easy, wouldn't every scientist on Earth have proven that we could "talk to the dead"? If a sixteen year old kid can construct a rudimentary communication device out of household items to talk to those "on the other side", why wouldn't scientists? I mean, wouldn't we have proven, a long time ago, the existence of a "Spirit World"? Sure. But on an emotional level, on a level I can't quite shake and can't explain away, it was very real. And it went very deep, almost like the fear you get when you know something bad is going to happen, you know you can't avoid it, but you can't convince yourself otherwise, either.

I'm pretty sure this post will get made fun of. I suppose on a level I think it's kinda crazy, too. And if someone were telling me about it, I'd probably think them crazy. But I experienced it, and honestly I don't think I'll forget it, ever. Are there ghosts? I don't know. But I certainly think it could be possible, along with other "spiritual" things/beings/entities. If not, well then my mind has a hell of a way of playing tricks on me.

I suppose we'll all find out one day, won't we?
 
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#222
@BayState,...

there is a science behind this form of energy, yet the findings are yet to be doc'd and released. the science community will continue to deny any existence of the super-natural because they are dumb founded, IMHO. Quantum Physics holds the keys to discovery, yet the public-at-large is NOT privy to this information,.. ever!:(
 
#223
I totally put Ouija boards out of the realm of ever trying them after seeing The Exorcist! On a side note, I had a girlfriend at that time who went home after seeing that movie, glimpsed her movement out of her peripheral in a mirror, and ran screaming out of her apartment. The Exorcist did for Ouija boards what Jaws did for recreational swimming in the ocean (and for me showers - I still hear that semi tone shift every time I get in there!).
 
#224
BayStateBass said:
This has been pretty interesting to read, really. Obviously there are those who believe, those who accept the possibility, those who feel it's unlikely, and those who don't believe at all. Myself, I cannot say with certainty that I do believe in ghosts, but I accept that it is entirely possible based on how I feel about other things I think about (religion, afterlife, the human soul, etc.).

So here is my story of my brief journey into the occult. It was about 25 years ago and even today it sends chills up my spine. It was with an Ouija board. Go ahead, laugh. I used to. I was in high school and had some friends that were into that sort of thing. I thought it was stupid and funny, just a game people played to screw with each other. So me and my friends Wade and Andy decided to play around with the idea. Wade insisted that the most powerful ones were ones you made yourself, so we did. And we used it. We used a small drinking glass as a "pointer". Wade kinda walked us through it. And, as I expected, the thing started to move. After all, someone's always pushing it around, aren't they? We asked questions. It answered. Inside I'm thinking "this is pretty funny, most of this stuff makes no sense and the answers are ridiculous". Just a good time party game. But I figured I'd try it for myself, so I made one on my own. I asked my sister to try it out with me, KNOWING it was not going to work because....hey.....those things are bullcrap.

But it worked. The pointer started moving around when we asked questions. Again, many incomprehensible answers, errant information, etc., but it did work. I was not pushing the thing around. She was not pushing the thing around. I've thought about it over the years, here and there. Wondered if subconsciously I was moving the thing without really realizing it, but I keep coming back to the conclusion that I wasn't. And she wasn't. She was just as weirded out as I was. It got freakier and freakier each time I used it. Now, nothing strange happened, like coming home and finding it had set itself up, or the pointer moving on it's own, yadda yadda, the stuff you hear about in people's tales or see in movies, but it only took a few times for me to realize that something was happening, something beyond what I could comprehend. And on a level, my gut told me it wasn't good, it was somehow a bad thing. I called my friend Wade, who was kinda into occult type stuff and introduced me to the whole thing, told him about it, and he told me that I needed to burn the thing. So I did. And never touched another item of that type ever again.

Was it ghosts? I don't know. Demons? Possibly. Heck, I don't know what it was. But to this day I believe, deep inside of me, that there was something going on beyond the physical world. Something that we don't see, can't prove. As I got older I developed a strong faith in God (which I didn't have back then), and came to the conclusion that I had dabbled into something that I shouldn't have, something "evil". The logical side of me tells me that it's foolish to believe that it was what I interpreted it to be. After all, if it were that easy, wouldn't every scientist on Earth have proven that we could "talk to the dead"? If a sixteen year old kid can construct a rudimentary communication device out of household items to talk to those "on the other side", why wouldn't scientists? I mean, wouldn't we have proven, a long time ago, the existence of a "Spirit World"? Sure. But on an emotional level, on a level I can't quite shake and can't explain away, it was very real. And it went very deep, almost like the fear you get when you know something bad is going to happen, you know you can't avoid it, but you can't convince yourself otherwise, either.

I'm pretty sure this post will get made fun of. I suppose on a level I think it's kinda crazy, too. And if someone were telling me about it, I'd probably think them crazy. But I experienced it, and honestly I don't think I'll forget it, ever. Are there ghosts? I don't know. But I certainly think it could be possible, along with other "spiritual" things/beings/entities. If not, well then my mind has a hell of a way of playing tricks on me.

I suppose we'll all find out one day, won't we?
Click to expand...

You lost me at 'Ouija board'.
 
#225
pacojas said:
@BayState,...

there is a science behind this form of energy, yet the findings are yet to be doc'd and released. the science community will continue to deny any existence of the super-natural because they are dumb founded, IMHO. Quantum Physics holds the keys to discovery, yet the public-at-large is NOT privy to this information,.. ever!:(
Click to expand...

Correct. I've got me an Acme Ghost-O-Matic-Super-Transcendental-Thwack-Stick.
 
#226
When I was a teenager I worked at the local small-town grocery store. After we locked up for the night a few of us would always stay and mop the floors, face the shelves, and do general cleanup. On one particular night three of us were doing that. The store had been locked for about an hour and we'd just about finished up, and we were standing close to the front of the store talking about something. Out of the corner of my eye, I saw someone walking across the front of the store toward the front door. I turned my head to get a better look and they were gone. I decided at that point that I wasn't going to say a word about it when one of the other guys turned to me, white as a sheet and eyes the size of silver dollars, and said "did you just see someone walking across the front of the store?".

The third guy didn't see anything, but he was facing the wrong direction. For sure nobody else was in the store, and the front door was locked so even if someone had been there they couldn't have left the store that way. It couldn't have been some weird brain glitch (although I'm sure those happen) because we both saw the same thing.

I'm still pretty sure it was some weird optical illusion, a very weird one.
 
#227
I know what I have been through as has my family and others. I have no explanation for what has happen but it has believe or not I said I had many stories I felt it would be nice if I shared them to fill in the blanks. this is not from my childhood it is after I purchased my first house in 1999 these things and others have occur enjoy the read.

1. Footsteps on first floor I was home alone in basement : I was in the basement repainting handles of the summer kitchen cabinets the first few days after we moved in I asked my wife to go to home depot to get more spray paint I heard someone up above me in the living room and thought they hadn’t gone yet I ran up the stairs saying maybe you should get me two cans only to find the front door locked and no one else in the house.

2. two young children shared New Years with my recently past father: on the first New Years after my Dad had past in Nov. my two youngest children told me they had shared their drinks with grandpa and both excitedly told me what he was wearing which freaked me out because it was the shirt and pants and jacket leisure type suit all the same color my Dad had wore in the 70’s when I was a teen there is no way my 5-6 year old would have know that and I have no picture of him dress like that in my house.

3. I witness a person in white shorts and socks run from the family room into the summer kitchen: I came home from the office and went down into the family room to see if anyone was home after finding no one upstairs as I rounded the stairs I clearly saw a pair of legs in white shorts and white socks run into the summer kitchen there are 3 steps up into the summer kitchen and no way to get out other than the way you entered my thought was my older son who I figured I caught trying to maybe put the ice cream back into the freezer since on more than a few occasion he and his buddies would eat out of the carton. As I ran into the kitchen I said out loud ah ha gotcha ya only to find no one in the kitchen at that point I said I saw you I know you know I saw you and make sure you do not scary my children ever! Older guy mid teens other two kids were very young

4. My daughter saw a young girl 8 or 10 years old standing against her bedroom door: My daughter was in her room she was around 8 years old at the time and said she had seen a young girl with black hair in a ruffled dress about her age staring at her leaning against her bedroom door. She did not say anything just stood there and then vanished. I am a fairly good artist and asked her to describe what she looked like which I drew on one of her notebooks I must have got it right because when I showed it to my daughter she grabbed the pencil and erased it crying

5. I was physically touch while in bed: To start off bought one of the mattress you could drop a bowling ball on and not spill a glass of wine the mattress is so thick when you sit on the end of the bed it doesn’t go down. That being said I had just gotten home from a Halloween gig and cleaned up and ate I was laying in the bed roughly 3am or so as I drifted off to sleep I felt pressure on my legs like something sat at the end of the bed on my ankles I laid there for a few minutes wondering if I was asleep or awake and looked at the clock which was now 3:20 so I now know that yes I am clearly not asleep and I do feel something at the end of the bed I have one arm under my pillow which is one of those heavy pillows not foam suddenly I feel a flick on the bottom of my left foot it felt like someone finger flicked or snapped a rubber band on the sole of my foot my reaction was violent I sat up quickly and swung my heavy pillow in the direction of whatever had just touch me if anyone or anything physically had been there this would have sent them flying into the nearest wall the pillow sailed though the air striking nothing my wife beside me did not wake during this and I under my breath said how dare you touch me never fing ever touch me again or I will bring people into this house that will make you fing leave do you hear me.( reaction has been honed over many years of growing up in a home shared let's say). In November I was in an accident and damaged my back in a fall I now live with a burning sensation on the sole of my left foot the same one that was flicked that night.

6. I was physically touch in the summer kitchen: I was in the summer kitchen some years later and was looking for something in the freezer there is a bread cabinet above the freezer I crouched down to look for something on the bottom shelves and as I stood up I was less than have way up when I bang my head my first thought was the cabinet then I stood up the rest of the way realizing it couldn’t be the cabinet which standing straight up is a good 2ft above my head.

7. piece of jewelry that my daughter borrowed from a friend disappeared over night never found:

8. My daughter was going to be in hippie for Halloween and borrowed a large metal peace sign necklace from one of her friends so she wouldn’t lose it she hung it on the post of her bed that night when she awoke the next morning the necklace was gone her door was closed and no one had enter her room to take it. This necklace has never been found not even after a tree had fallen on our house and her room was damaged and everything was removed and the room gutted down to the floor studs if it was going to show that would have been the time.

9. sons wife’s jewelry moved or hidden on many occasions: My older guy and his wife live with me her jewelry has been removed from her nightstand to be found either on the floor or one time all the way back under a dresser across the room.

10. Door opened for my older son on it’s own when he had his hands full: Same room, my son’s room is at the end of the hall near the bathroom many times I have as has many others heard the doorknob turn and unlatch when he wasn't home. One time my son had been carry laundry and had his hands full as he reached to open the door the door unlatched an opened on it’s own as if someone was doing him a favor

11. daughter saw a shadow person twice: same room, my daughter witness a black shadow come out of my sons room after school story above in first post the second time she was in the bathroom and saw a pair of legs come through the bathroom door but disappeared before reaching the sink

12. Voices of myself and other family members copied on many occasions: stories in first post

13. Black orb witnessed by myself my daughter my oldest son and my wife days before a tree fell on my house: My daughter and I were in the living room I was playing the acoustic bass practicing the rolling stones song Bitch my daughter was sitting in a chair facing me she wasn’t feeling well her stomach was bothering her. She bent down and turn her head to the side facing a wall to my right at the same time I caught movement out of the corner of my right eye as I looked in that direction I saw a black object dart behind a vase near the wall my first thought was animal maybe a squirrel got in or a something else as I continued to look in that direction it moved out slowly from behind the vase it was black fuzzy had a glowing about it like when your tv is between channels like white noise it was hovering about a inch above the baseboard it stay there long enough for me to look directly at it I did not realized that at the same time my daughter was also seeing it I put down my bass and as I did that it darted very quickly across the wall towards the dining room table I had already jumped up and was going to make sure I cut it off on the other side it never came out from under the table when I looked the direction of my daughter she was now standing on the chair wild eyed I walked over to her and said did you see something and she said yeah but she did not want to say and I say was it the round black and the size of and we both said softball and both said it had no tail I was just couldn’t believe it. We told our stories to the rest of the family my older guy who had never seen anything in the house finally saw something with his own two eyes he was a few nights later paying for a pizza and as he closed the front door he turned and saw the same black orb right at his feet hovering only a few inches off the floor he looked at it as we had directly for a minute or two before it darted under a near by armoire he told his mother what he had seen and she was also one who hadn’t seen anything physically herself and half believed us till the next day she came home from the office and enter our bedroom to find it only a few feet right in front of her she looked at it directly and it quickly darted under our bed.

14. This also happen to me about the same time I was in my home studio in my family room I was at my desk with headphones on listening to a play back when I thought I saw something on the desk move as it happen again I saw two hands shake the desk I jumped up and as I did I saw a small something???? duck down and then it was gone. Less than a week after these events a very large 80 ft tree came down and into my house while we were at the dinner table we all could have been killed had the tree falling a foot in either direction it would have split the living room dining area in half. The home was not livable and had to rebuild many rooms. We feel that the things that happen prior may have been some kind of a warning.

15. Wife’s cousin heard us come home from vacation early: My wife’s cousin was between homes and needed a place so he lived with us for a couple months till he could find a place. We had gone on a family vacation to Hersey park we drove out of Friday and were going to return the following Sunday. Her cousin is not a believer in ghost or anything supernatural , he is very level headed. Anyway he was in the family room on a Thursday night it was around 9pm he was watching TV he said he heard the front door open then footsteps of many people moving into the living room above him he got up and went up the stairs to greet who he thought was us as he round the stairs he said I thought you were coming home Sunday what happen? To his dismay he stood alone in a empty room the front door locked the home alarm armed as he left it. He told us the story Sunday when we got home it bother him so much he moved in with a friend the same week and he well not sleep over our house since that happen to him and only one time since it happen did he stay overnight he felt ill and we made him stay he slept on a couch fully dressed with his shoes on with both of his feet over the edge on the floor that is how I found him the next morning.

16. Wife’s ruby ring disappeared never found

17. Orbs videotaped during the making of a school project ( not dust bull crap large green orb hovering near my shoulder not seen with the naked eye. Other orbs videotaped on the same night with my camera phone.: My daughter had to make a commercial for a school assignment I had a part my young son had a part and my daughter had a part my older guy was shooting the video he saw through the view finder a large greenish colored orb floating near my shoulder as he sat up for the shot he looked away and didn’t see anything and when he looked back into the view find it had move to directly behind my head he figured it was something with the camera so he did not mention it and shot the video as if nothing was wrong after we were done he said to me is there something wrong with the camera? And I said not that I know of why I use it to shoot the band video and never ever came across what he saw. In editing you can see many orbs of different sizes and shapes and flight patterns moving about the room. So I grabbed my Galaxy S 111 which I know has no issues and started to video tape the room I too was able to pick up the orbs one of which I recorded following my son into the kitchen than come out of the kitchen directly at me stop in front of me move in a circle pattern then take off directly over my head I have this video on my smart phone it was nuts.

18. Puppy reacting to seeing something no one else was seeing now she is 1 years old and has a very unique growl and violent reaction followed by ear piercing barking many times she has awaken from being a sleep 2 or 3 am and you just jump out of your skin!

19. A dear friend comes back one more time: A very dear friend of ours past around Christmas time she had been moved out of her home and was up by her kids house in Mass. Same week she had past one night my daughter was sitting bull shooting in a friend’s car outside our house it was getting late and I text her she needs to come in she said soon Dad ahhhhhhh yeah that is what it said anyway they were out there a little longer and I see out the window the lights come on and they drive up the street I am like okay she is coming in but, she doesn’t come in? I see them come back around the corner and parking again??? Few minutes later she comes in and asks me if I went outside a few minutes ago and banged on the back window of the car and I said no is that why you drove away and she said yeah someone knocked on the back window 3 times and freaked us out. We both went into my bed room to tell my wife what happen she was very sad because she had lost a dear friend and when we told her she was freaked because our friend had told her when she is gone she will let us know she is okay by knocking 3 times! My wife never told anyone else this story till that very minute I checked the security cameras the next day and no one touches the car they just start it up and go around the corner. that is a few

Off the top of my head
 
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#233
ChrisB2 said:
That was a rhetorical question. But since you bit, your answer implies that in your view, there is more evolving to be done.
Click to expand...

Unless we're perfectly adapted to our environment, there is more evolving to be done.


ChrisB2 said:
More intelligence to be gained. More knowledge, understanding, and enlightenment.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. That evolution may involve REDUCTION in intelligence, knowledge, understanding, and enlightenment. Evolving just means changing - whether the change to fit better in the environment involves more OR less complexity.

Devolution is based on the following fallacies:

1) there is a preferred hierarchy of structure and function
2) evolution must mean "progress" to "more advanced" organisms with more complex structure and function.


"The idea of de-evolution is based at least partly on the presumption that "evolution" requires some sort of purposeful direction towards "increasing complexity". Modern evolutionary theory, beginning with Darwin at least, poses no such presumption and the concept of evolutionary change is independent of either any increase in complexity of organisms sharing a gene pool, or any decrease, such as in vestigiality or in loss of genes."
 
#234
will33 said:
Just some people will remain open to the idea that there are (or at least could be) things out there that we either have yet to identify and understand, or may never be able to with our five senses, and there are others who think along the lines of "if we can't prove this to ourselves in scientific experiments, then it must not exist".
Click to expand...

See - I'd never say that.

I might say "if we can't find evidence of this ourselves in scientific experiments, then its existence is most likely irrelevant"
 
#235
BayStateBass said:
Odd thing is, for those of us who do believe in an afterlife, maybe heaven/hell, and the soul, we actually lose nothing if we are wrong.

For those who don't, it's maybe not the same.

Just a thought.
Click to expand...
Aaaahh, Pascal's wager. The "ya might as well believe cuz if you're right you're good to go and if you're wrong you're just dead" idea.

It doesn't take into account all the other afterlife possibilities that have been dreamt up. Maybe you lose nothing if you're wrong, or maybe you end up in the fields of punishment or the fields of Asphodel. Or perhaps Tartarus if you're especially unlucky.
 

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