Do you encourage less skilled musicians?

[brianrost]

There is a long tradition of experienced bandleader teaching talented but inexperienced musicians: Art Blakey, Chick Corey, Miles Davis, etc.

I get your point but very few of the players hired by Art, Chick and Miles were truly inexperienced. Most were not as well known before they got hired, but guys like Stanley Clarke, John Pattituci, Dave Holland, Michael Henderson and Paul Chambers already had decent resumes. Just recently heard a pre-Miles free jazz session Dave Holland played on and it was apparent why he caught Miles' ears.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

Wow! Thanks for all the comments! There have been a lot of very thoughtful replies! It seems I wasn't very clear: I was asking about encouraging, not being in a band with much less experienced players. I agree totally with wanting to be in a band w/players as good as or even better than me. Been there, got the T-shirt(s).
I was talking more about musicians we see/hear when out and about (gigs, jams, friends' kids, etcetera). I was meaning more like words of encouragement, offering help (could be advice on gear, a better bass line on a certain song, a pat on the back, spending a bit of time with, talking or playing bass, whatever). Again, thanks to all!

Our band has an actual policy of encouraging young players. Every now and again our BL, who spends an heroic amount of time on the club scene, finds a young band she likes. At the clubs where they'll let us do it, we'll invite them up to play a couple songs on one of our gigs. This redounds to our benefit in many ways: The kids are grateful for the exposure, and they bring their own younger crowd who get exposed to what we do. Also, our BL, being the business head she is, will sometimes book them some gigs.

Doing this, I've met many younger bass players who have monster chops but just need a little seasoning--as in "You don't have to play every lick you know all the time," and "Worry less about being a star and more about supporting your singer," and other such geezer gems. I used to think that since they can play rings around me, one of them would end up taking my job, but it hasn't happened yet!

 

[brianrost]

I used to think that since they can play rings around me, one of them would end up taking my job, but it hasn't happened yet!

That's because they haven't taken your advice yet.

One music school hotshot I knew from the weekly blues jam came back from his first summer cruise ship gig and was playing a lot fewer notes than he used to

 

[mrcbass]

Always. Not that I'm any great player, but it's so important to help and encourage anyone whenever you can. It' how we really learn - there's only so much you can get out of books. I'm less inclined with people who really have no clue where they are and think "already know" stuff - you just can't learn if you think you already know something.

Do I want to be in a project/band with players that are not ready? No. There's a place for everything, and trying to "accomplish something" with players who struggle just to get through a tune is quite painful. In my jazz project we recently wasted several months trying to bring a drummer up to speed. Really nice guy - very enthusiastic and full of ideas - just couldn't keep the beat. It was hard to let him go, but we were just not getting anywhere and I was getting ready to walk.

I think the hardest thing of all in this vein are people who actually play very well, but haven't a clue about how to talk music: "I only read tabs". "I IV what?". "What's a chorus?"

 

[dragon68]

I'm still waiting to run into the "less skilled" player!

I'm your huckleberry. LOL

 

[DrummerwStrings]

I'm your huckleberry. LOL

That's just my game.

- Doc, Tombstone (excellent Western)

 

[Joe Nerve]

Haven't read through this thread yet, will today at work - but I'd really like to know:

What does anyone have to gain by NOT encouraging less skilled players?

 

[GBBSbassist]

I'm a natural musician, but admittedly, I'm extremely lazy when it comes to pushing myself to practice and learn new things. I figure if I can't motivate myself, I shouldn't interfere with others.

 

[bassbrad]

I do my best to, I benefited from the guidance and challenge of better players and try to pay those lessons forward. I do have to remind myself that not everyone has the same aptitude and experiences I have been fortunate to have. Nor do most people have the same goals that I had.

 

[74hc]

Oh, heck ya, I do. When less skilled musicians hear my mediocre bass playing, they always say they can do it better. They're probably right too!

 

[dirkdabass]

A while back, a good friend of mine invited me to an informal jam with a few of his friends. This man is an accomplished guitar player who has taught me much of what I know about playing. I'm always up for a jam. We met three gentlemen (30's of so - 20 years younger than us) in a small (bathroom sized) room off a garage. We played. Bloody awful. Rudimentary. No timing, no chops. My buddy and I are trying desperately to hold it together and trading looks. Didn't play for long before I made my escape.


I asked my buddy why the heck he had bothered hooking up with those guys and he replied that somebody had to teach them. Well, he had put up with me while I developed my (meager) skills so I sort of understood. I tried it again six months later and, if anything, it was perhaps worse. No more.


I have attended, honestly, scores of music festivals where I have been encouraged and do encourage others to jam (and learn). These impromptu jams are usually fun and are often a high point of festivals. I always encourage new players (how often do I hear "...but I'm not very good") to join in and have fun. With this in mind, I have tried to justify my rejection of playing with the "bathroom" gang - just couldn't continue. My buddy was willing to help them out. More power to him. I just couldn't.

 

[1st Bass]

Not everyone is a teacher by nature. I am, but I recognize that not everyone is. In addition, not everyone CAN teach everyone. I have had students (not music-- I am not a real musician) regarding whom others had given up, who blossomed with me. Possibly sheer luck and timing...maybe they would have blossomed about that time anyway. On the other end of the spectrum, I have had students (in my trade) who, if I had had my choice, I would have sent packing, but who later became very good employees.

There was a young fellow at work who was excited about music, and would enthusiastically tell me about a song he had heard, and all he could give me was a monotone rhythmic "Zsh-zsh-Zsh! Just like that! It was so cool!" It finally dawned on me that he had no concept of pitch, and that the melody was lost on him.

I cautiously suggested that he go home and try "matching tones" on whatever instrument he had (might have been a guitar...I can't recall.) He cheerfully agreed to try it. The next day he came back even more enthusiastic, because he found that he could do it. A year later, he was writing pretty good music, ballads, etc., and quite melodic, accompanying himself on acoustic guitar. But, that was ALL I did...everything else was him. I take no credit at all for that transformation.

We can't all be great players...and we can't all be great teachers. But we can all be kind, and encouraging.