Do you love or hate a cajon?

[LBS-bass]

Even a standard E-kit takes up a lot less room than a trap kit.

 

[Joebone]

The cajon evolved from a tradition of drumming on packing crates, so in essence a cajon, at its heart, very much is just a wooden box. We can improve on that, if we want it to sound like something better than its traditional roots would suggest. I suppose a traditionalist could argue that it shouldn't be improved due to history, but I'd suggest that those earliest cajonists weren't worried about tone but were just happy to be able to drum on something.

My husband plays drums and percussion. He has studied latin percussion with conga and bongos and various other things. What he has found in the local music scene is that understanding complex rhythms and being able to play with that level of understanding has almost no appreciation; people think you're doing an adequate job if you're just banging on things. Forget about high end anything, nobody cares.

He was briefly in a band with two percussionists, one guy was a kit drummer who had alcohol issues. My husband was brought in to mainly provide hand percussion, but the bandleader kept saying they'd "trade off" because he didn't know if alcohol guy would aways be available and he wanted them to be able to play smaller shows where a kit wasn't viable.

As you can imagine, this was a recipe for disaster. Alcohol guy knew nothing about playing percussion and his idea of playing a cajon or a conga was just to hit 16th notes as hard as he could. My husband was trying to play tasteful licks on top of this, which of course didn't work.

That band was a train wreck for a variety of reasons but when my husband complained that the other guy wasn't leaving room for him, it turned into a contest and alcohol guy ultimately became their drummer, which was stupid because they were rehearsing at our house and that guy was a no show to more than half the rehearsals. Oh well.

The drum position in that band ultimately became a big revolving door and I don't think they were ever really able to get things together before COVID hit. But I digress. My point is that often people don't recognize good training on percussion for what it is.

Since then he's had offers to work with bands that advertised they wanted a drummer but then said, "do you have a cajon?" To him that's a red flag that tells him they don't want what he offers and he will decline those offers.

This is sad. Too many folks thinking that early Santana grooves are the alpha-omega of latin music. My first life was as a pro trombonist - lots of salsa and Brazilian, both of which remain a big part of my listening life, and my pre-covid band performed almost completely in Spanish, with grooves from across the Caribbean and Southern Hemisphere. But when it comes to Cajon...the Flamenco folks are the JAM!. Definitely it's own instrument, in a big way, and regrettable if that mojo is getting diluted - just like when bossa nova became a US fad, and was run into the ground by the late '60s?

 

[4dog]

balls...oh wait...umm

 

[LBS-bass]

This is sad. Too many folks thinking that early Santana grooves are the alpha-omega of latin music. My first life was as a pro trombonist - lots of salsa and Brazilian, both of which remain a big part of my listening life, and my pre-covid band performed almost completely in Spanish, with grooves from across the Caribbean and Southern Hemisphere. But when it comes to Cajon...the Flamenco folks are the JAM!. Definitely it's own instrument, in a big way, and regrettable if that mojo is getting diluted - just like when bossa nova became a US fad, and was run into the ground by the late '60s?

Yes, the flamenco stuff is fabulous! He started looking up really good cajon players when he first bought his and found all sorts of great stuff. It can be amazing when played by someone who knows what to do with one but that of course is not the music most people use it for.

 

[pcake]

Even a standard E-kit takes up a lot less room than a trap kit.

only some of them. i'm using a standard rack for mine, and the higher end roland and yamaha kits are bigger than the starter acoustic kits. and then there's the new roland kits
Roland V-Drums Acoustic Design VAD306 Electronic Drum Set

 

[franklindayala]

Or is it something in-between? I have an opinion but I first would like to hear a few of yours.

Editing to specify that I mean a cajon being used in lieu of a full drum kit. Not a cajon in the abstract.

Im from Perú. El Cajón is build in our DNA.

 

[Joebone]

One of the best live shows I've ever seen was the flamenco guitarist Tomatito, with a full entourage, in like an 800-seat theater. Just sayin'...

Yes, the flamenco stuff is fabulous! He started looking up really good cajon players when he first bought his and found all sorts of great stuff. It can be amazing when played by someone who knows what to do with one but that of course is not the music most people use it for.

 

[misterCRUSH]

I have only played with one once, but the 16 yo girl who played it had amazing time. her style was a bit basic, but i had an enjoyable experience.

 

[LBS-bass]

Just a quick reminder. Some people are posting latin percussion videos with cajon, which are very nice. If you notice what I asked about was using the cajon as a substitute for a trap kit, which I guess is more in line with traditions in jazz and rock.

That being said, I'm really enjoying seeing the instrument being played well, so please don't stop sharing, it's just not really an answer to my question

 

[Richard Lindsey]

The cajon is just another instrument; I think of it in the same way as any other instrument. Under the hands of a good player, it can be very cool in a compatible sonic context. Under the hands of a bad player, I'm not much interested in hearing it anywhere--but again, it's not much different from any other musical instrument in that respect.

However, IME there is sometimes a particular "hazard" with the cajon and other percussion instruments, in that it seems to be easy for people to think they can play the things better than they actually can--after all, you just hit or shake it, right? I've heard too many grooves grievously injured by bad percussion.

In reality, of course, it takes as much effort and discipline to play percussion well as it does anything else.

 

[SgtHulka]

I hate them.... but only because I personally have never played with anyone who was any good at playing the thing. All drummers THINK they are good at it. Most aren't.

Like a lot of bass players here and their bass?

 

[Ggaa]

Depends on the player. And how you mike it... Our former drummer knew how to play it, and it was almost as present as the full kit. Easy to play alongside. Had a great kick hand. So in this case, the band loved it.

 

[Garret Wheeler]

For small stuff where volume is an issue, a cajon is often the best move, especially if it's mic'd.

One of the bands I'm in does stripped back acoustic gigs on occasion and the cajon has always served us well. Our drummer was initially reluctant to try it at a gig, but now he says he loves playing the cajon. He says it really makes him boil everything down to "boom" and "bap" lol. It's honestly made me and him a much tighter rhythm section since we often have to boil everything down to the most simple idea.

Cajons are also pretty cool for acoustic jams when drums aren't an option. That being said, when drums are an option, I like to roll with them lol.

 

[LBS-bass]

For small stuff where volume is an issue, a cajon is often the best move

I really question this. There's a video here where a drummer puts together a super small kit with a small snare, a tiny tom for kick, and a couple of little cymbals. Way more sonic value than a cajon and can be played with bundles or brushes in a more traditional manner. I can't find a single good reason to choose a cajon over actual drums other than trendiness or laziness, or maybe finances.

 

[rafunk]

I never thought that the cajón was used as a substitute of a drum kit. In Spain we are familiar with the use of cajón in flamenco music (really new flamenco). But never seen for rock or funky!
The international diffusion of the cajón was because of Paco De Lucía, who incluides it in his sextet, together with a fretless bass wich was even more revolutionary. Think at 1970 in flamenco they only play vocals, hand claps and spanish guitars.
That been said, cajón is original from Perú.

 

[Discount Bassy]

I played in an open mic backing band (you bring the lead, we'll back you and have a recording ready for the following week) that consisted of a drummer, bassist and guitarist over a decade ago. No PA, just dialed in amps. The drummer was going a good bit out of his way and wanted to bring the barest minimum to get things done. His bass drum was a 14" floor tom on its side. One crash, one hi-hat, one snare and occasionally one tom. It worked pretty well, better that some overblown kits I have seem for small bar gigs. He could have it in his mid-nineties Corolla in 5 minutes without opening the trunk.

 

[Inky13]

Ha! Unbeknownst to our drummer, I have a bunch of stuff stored in the attic of his music room. Last weekend after an outdoor get together, I ventured up there to retrieve some items to sell on CL because I’m one step away from living in a cardboard box. On the way down, I tripped an almost fell on a (wait for it) cajon.
It did make a pleasing tone as I kicked it over. I’ve never played with one in real life, but at that moment, I was not a fan.
Full disclosure: No, I’m not going to live in a cardboard box. Unless anybody knows of one in a good neighborhood. Nothing fancy, maybe 4-500 square feet with a dishwasher and a nice yard.

 

[HolmeBass]

The quiet gigs, wineries and brewery day and early evening gigs, are some of the best gigs around here and being able to play them is great. Wineries pay better than clubs around here, taking a trio into a winery with a combined total of 75 lbs of gear and leaving after 2.5 hrs of music with $100+ each beats the snot out of most club gigs. The cajón makes turning these gigs into dance parties much more of a reality.

 

[Passinwind]

I really question this. There's a video here where a drummer puts together a super small kit with a small snare, a tiny tom for kick, and a couple of little cymbals. Way more sonic value than a cajon and can be played with bundles or brushes in a more traditional manner. I can't find a single good reason to choose a cajon over actual drums other than trendiness or laziness, or maybe finances.

A good cajon player can use brushes or a bundle too though. The really good one I mentioned upthread spent a lot of time working out how to run through a small bass amp, and his kick sound was easily as good as many cocktail kits. I love cocktail kits too though, especially in unmiked applications, which have always been my favorite gigs. The one thing I usually miss with cajon is hi hat sounds, but my friend even had that worked out pretty well.

It's pretty obvious that you've already made up your mind, and have well grounded reasons for that. Hope you find what you're looking for!

 

[LBS-bass]

A good cajon player can use brushes or a bundle too though. The really good one I mentioned upthread spent a lot of time working out how to run through a small bass amp, and his kick sound was easily as good as many cocktail kits. I love cocktail kits too though, especially in unmiked applications, which have always been my favorite gigs. The one thing I usually miss with cajon is hi hat sounds, but my friend even had that worked out pretty well.

It's pretty obvious that you've already made up your mind, and have well grounded reasons for that. Hope you find what you're looking for!

Oh, they can. My husband used to bring in a djembe with brushes and bundles for certain gigs in small rooms; it pays to be creative. He also mic'd up his cajon during that brief experience he had playing it and added a pedal, which gave it more thump, but it still sounded like a pedal on a 2x4 because the quality of the instruments most people are playing doesn't rise to the sonic level of a decent drum with a head, at least not to my ear.

I haven't "made up my mind" about anything but haven't ever heard any cajon used in that situation that sounded as good as a drum to me. It sounds like maybe your guy has invested in a quality box and figured out how to play and mic it for maximum effect, which is noteworthy and laudable, but would definitely be the exception to the rule around here

I'm also not looking for anything, just making observations.