Do you need music theory?

[design]

Haven’t read the whole thread. At the risk of being pedantic, for people who say “I don’t use/need music theory” they probably DO!

The following are all examples of using basic music theory:

Music vocabulary such as
Key
Root
3/4
Swing
16ths
Minor
“Hit it on the 1”

etc.

 

[foal30]

I've played with hundreds of musicians

Never met one who said "I really wish I hadn't of bothered with learning Theory"

The reverse of that you hear all the time.

 

[Dincrest]

I think theory is useful. Like others, I view it the same way I view language.

Or, if I'm in a situation where, say, I'm on a plane and get a musical idea but can't pull out my instrument to try riffing on, I can jot down my idea using my knowledge of notation, chord progression, etc. in such a way that when I do return to my instrument, I'll be able to re-create that idea. Of course, something may get "lost in translation" but who knows, a new cooler idea may spawn from that "mistake."

 

[lfmn16]

If you want to be a lawyer you study law. If you want to be a doctor you study medicine. If you want to be a musician you study music theory.

I've yet to meet anyone who actually studied theory and didn't think it was worth the trouble. I do know many people who don't know jack about theory but somehow know it wouldn't help them.

I'm talking about actual music theory. So many people on TB think learning scales is learning music theory. That's like learning the alphabet and claiming you know how to write a novel.

 

[rashrader]

Whatever happened to people knowing what they want? I don't get it. This question makes zero sense.

 

[TonyP-]

I like to think I have solid little career...

I would not have it if I did not know theory. I can say that %100.

I’m not telling anyone to learn theory,
I just know it cannot hurt You.

Don’t burn the books, learn from them first and then make up your mind.

 

[mazdah]

Music is like a language. Think of it

Do you need how to read and write to communicate with others?
Do you need to know the vocabulary rules?

Not at all.
But it's limiting.
Why limit yourself?

 

[lfmn16]

Whatever happened to people knowing what they want?

The internet. It's easier to let strangers do your thinking for you.

 

[SteveCS]

The internet. It's easier to let strangers do your thinking for you.

...provided you don't mind them being wrong on your behalf...

 

[Nephilymbass]

The thread title question and the poll question are two different questions. Do you need Theory? And do you use theory?

I do use what theory I know here and there. I started playing Trumpet when I was 9
And played through school. Played bass in jazz band so by the time I was done with high school I could read treble clef and bass clef pretty well. Even took music theory classes in high school and in college. But I’ll admit I’ve forgotten a lot over the years. Do I think people need to have a great grasp of music theory to be a good musician? Absolutely not. Where I do think it mainly comes in handy is playing improvised music and talking about music. A lot of the most popular musicians write music in a way that I would describe as “happy accidents” and “trial and error” because they don’t understand the theory behind what they did they just messed around until they had something they enjoyed. Improvised music is different because without theory you are likely to make more errors onstage, where with theory instead of blindly “guessing” you’re making “educated guesses.” Sometimes music that’s too thought out sucks. An example of this is the “learn your pentatonic scales so you can solo like the greats” crap you'll see advertised on YouTube. Lot of the time when people think of scales while soloing they sound like they are just playing scales, no sense of time, feel, or melody. it can literally sound like someone is practicing scales while the rest of the band is playing a song. Which imo is pretty lame.

Hopefully, not a divisive question

 

[Tim Schnautz]

No, you don't need it, but it helps.

 

[glocke1]

Hopefully, not a divisive question

I use it but in limited amounts...

Whats important to me are being able to recognize the following:

major/minor/dom 7th chords (note i said chords, not scales or modes)

I/IV/V, ii/V/I and related progressions

being able to identify tonal centers.

Beyond that? It would be nice to be well versed in theory beyond what I said, but at the end of the day I only have so much time available to me, and I've realized that no matter how long i sit in front of a music stand trying to digest this stuff, it's really not going to make me a better player. Only getting out and playing will make me a better player.

Back to my comment on modes...I tend to not spend a lot of time thinking about them. I've tried memorizing them, but the next day they are gone...just like all those biochemical pathways I had to memorize in college. It's far, far easier for me to look at a chord symbol and know that there is a b5/b13, etc...that is in there for me to use as note choice than to sit there and say "I can play this mode over that chord".

 

[Koshchei]

I use it all the time. It helps me to understand what other musicians are doing when I hear something I like, and it helps me to explain what I'm doing to other musicians. It's a little like welding; you don't need it to drive a car or operate a wood splitter, but knowing how demystifies things you formerly treated as immutable, and allows you to do things that you didn't know were possible without it.

 

[Koshchei]

I use it but in limited amounts...

Whats important to me are being able to recognize the following:

major/minor/dom 7th chords (note i said chords, not scales or modes)

I/IV/V, ii/V/I and related progressions

being able to identify tonal centers.

Beyond that? It would be nice to be well versed in theory beyond what I said, but at the end of the day I only have so much time available to me, and I've realized that no matter how long i sit in front of a music stand trying to digest this stuff, it's really not going to make me a better player. Only getting out and playing will make me a better player.

Back to my comment on modes...I tend to not spend a lot of time thinking about them. I've tried memorizing them, but the next day they are gone...just like all those biochemical pathways I had to memorize in college. It's far, far easier for me to look at a chord symbol and know that there is a b5/b13, etc...that is in there for me to use as note choice than to sit there and say "I can play this mode over that chord".

Two ways of looking at the same thing... chord theory is more appropriate for bass and guitar anyway, particularly if you're a jazzer. The only thing missing from your schema is the 2 and 6 intervals, and they're easy enough to bolt on if you treat them as an inverted 7 and 3 respectively

 

[lfmn16]

...provided you don't mind them being wrong on your behalf...

I thought if you read it on the internet then it HAD to be right!!!!

 

[okcrum]

I've written and recorded about 100 songs. I've played in successful original bands and toured in the US and abroad. I've played in about 50 cover bands. I've performed with some well known musicians as well as some of the most talented on the planet. I currently earn most of my living playing bass.

I know very little, if any, theory.

I think you are selling yourself short. If you think of theory like a language, or sublanguage like jargon, you know quite enough of it to communicate effectively in the playing situations you've been in. Different Genres use different amounts of this and that to communicate.

 

[two fingers]

Depends If you’re being hired to wire the venue or play the gig!
The absence of formal theory training doesn’t negate ones input or creative ability. I’d struggle to name concepts in grammar apart from maybe ‘syntax’ but it doesn’t mean I’m unable to communicate or be understood by people around me. It’s rare when a drummer or guitarist has said “Nice groove, I’m digging the flat third on bar three and the triplet you played on the turn around.” They might be more inclined to just lock in and play and do that wee look and a nod.

You learned grammar theory at some point. You have just forgotten the terminology over time.

I was stating a personal preference. You do you.

I would rather not work with musicians who have no theory knowledge. Using theory terms, my guitarist, keys player and I can resolve any musical issues in seconds. If something sounds "off", we simply stop. I'll ask the guitarist to name and play the chord he was playing. Then I'll ask the keys guy the same. If they aren't playing the same chord, we'll figure out which one is correct and move on. But you can do that when the conversation goes like this.

Me to guitarist - "What are you playing there?"

Guitarist plays chord and says - "C9"

Me to key - "How 'bout you?"

Keys play chord and says - "C7 and I learned from sheet music so I'm pretty sure it's the 7."

Guitarist - "Ah. Cool. I learned it by ear and thought it was the 9. No bigger. We'll play the 7."

Now, if none of us knows theory, we gotta keep playing the chords over each other and listen back to the track over and over until we can convince one of them that the D over that C chord has gotta go.

So, IN MY VIEW, being surrounded by people who speak the language is much easier, and doesn't take away from the groove at all. Nobody on Earth ever had a ton of groove and then lost it by learning theory. Ever. Never.

 

[IamGroot]

My jazz instructor strongly encouraged me to identify the scale degree of every note while playing. After doing it for years, its automatic like having subtitles on a movie

. . So if I am playing a walking a bassline, sometimes i play from pure feel and sometimes my playing is MTM (music theory modified).

If I play something that sounds particularly good or bad, my theory immediately tells me why so i know how to avoid or repeat.

 

[Watchootognbout]

Every musician uses music theory.
Whether simple or advanced.
If you play a whole tone interval,you have used basic music theory.

Now,there are those who go out of their way to study and use advanced theory.
To good effect.
Do you need to do this?
Good!
If you don’t,good!

 

[Joe Nerve]

I think you are selling yourself short. If you think of theory like a language, or sublanguage like jargon, you know quite enough of it to communicate effectively in the playing situations you've been in. Different Genres use different amounts of this and that to communicate.

I think the OP wasn't clear. It sounded as though he was asking if we need to study music theory, or be able to speak theoretically about what we do. Neither apply to me.