Hendrix and McCartney proved that you don't need it for rock music. But, if you wanna play jazz on the fly (with serious jazz musicians),...then you better have some theory under your belt, if you want to be taken seriously.
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Do you need music theory?
- Thread starter IamGroot
- Start date
Hendrix and McCartney proved that you don't need it for rock music. But, if you wanna play jazz on the fly (with serious jazz musicians),...then you better have some theory under your belt, if you want to be taken seriously.
Do I need it? I think so.
I’ve played many years without knowing anything. I just know where a few notes are on the fretboard. I’ve done it all by ear, root notes, patterns and connecting them.
I’m like an illiterate person that fakes it at work.
BUT, I’ve decided it’s time to learn it all. I’m starting at the beginning for the first time.
I’ve played many years without knowing anything. I just know where a few notes are on the fretboard. I’ve done it all by ear, root notes, patterns and connecting them.
I’m like an illiterate person that fakes it at work.
BUT, I’ve decided it’s time to learn it all. I’m starting at the beginning for the first time.
Turnaround
Commercial User
The distinction between "fundamentals" and theory is vague at best. For example the book "Fundamentals of Music Theory" written by Bertrand Howard is described by the author as "an introduction to the mechanics of Western music theory. Topics covered include: notation, rhythm, meter, and time signatures, scales, intervals, key signatures and triads." The university of Edinburgh offers a course in "the fundamentals of music theory". I guess you need to know the fundamentals to understand the fundamentals of theory. That's my theory.
The claim that these two did not understand theory is absurd.
I could have worded the OP question very precisely, but the goal was to have folks talk about music. There are no right or wrong answers.
I appreciated all the viewpoints especially Joe Nerve's take on how he processes music. I am deep in theory as it is how i make sense of music, especially instrumental solos. Either way can work.
Consider this thread a music Rorhsharch test.
On the Eerie, Enduring Power of the Rorschach Test[/QUOTE]
I appreciated all the viewpoints especially Joe Nerve's take on how he processes music. I am deep in theory as it is how i make sense of music, especially instrumental solos. Either way can work.
Consider this thread a music Rorhsharch test.
On the Eerie, Enduring Power of the Rorschach Test[/QUOTE]
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theoretically speaking, i believe that you are fundamentally correct.
Watch McCartney trying to convey musical ideas in the Let It Be movie. That was at the end of the Beatles, and McCartney's theory is clearly at a pretty elementary level. I'm sure he's learned much more in the 5 decades since the Beatles. But, he made it through the Beatles without knowing much.
Hendrix was very vocal about his limitations. You can reference his own words on the topic, in many interviews.
Absolutely you need music theory to be in a cover band. This reminds of the time my band was going to learn and play "Since U Been Gone" by Kelly Clarkson, but unfortunately, we couldn't pull it off because combined as a band, we didn't have enough knowledge of music theory.
What?
When I first got back into music this word “THEORY” was a bit intimidating and a mystical thing I felt I had to figure out. I did and I am.
The thing is, as I started to learn it I had a realization that I knew a lot of it since being a kid, and taking music lessons. I don’t recall ever referring to it as “theory” when I was young. It’s music stuff that we learn. How much we learn and how we apply it is relative to our own individual needs and goals. Learning it is not needed or unneeded. If what you are doing is working, go with it. If we need to learn more music stuff (theory) to get where we want to be then, we learn it.
A little anecdote....
My dad is 81 years old and has been blowing a horn (clarinet => saxophone => clarinet) for over 70 years. I CAN NOT talk music with him without my patience running thin. He knows a ton of theory! As soon as I try to explain something relative to my music theory and how I use it he gets ignorantly indignant because, for him it is not relative or useful. His theory revolves around woodwinds in classical music in an orchestra ensemble or as a soloist and he’s damn good at what he does. His priorities are to look/study sheet music with treble clef and pick it apart with his horn from start to finish until he can finally play at tempo either as a solo or as part of an orchestra. If I bring up chord progressions and chord scales and inversions and syncopated rhythms etc... none of it matters or is “important”.
The problems arise when you are talking to someone and the things you are talking about and how your music theory relates to what is important to your applications are regarded as unimportant or not useful because it doesn’t relate to that persons musical priorities.
My takeaway from all of this disfunctionality is to always make an effort to understand through discussion with them, what other musicians are doing and how/why they’re doing something that I don’t understand.
Knowing “music stuff” (theory) enables us to understand and communicate effectively with others.
Hi, my name is John.......thank you for listening.
The thing is, as I started to learn it I had a realization that I knew a lot of it since being a kid, and taking music lessons. I don’t recall ever referring to it as “theory” when I was young. It’s music stuff that we learn. How much we learn and how we apply it is relative to our own individual needs and goals. Learning it is not needed or unneeded. If what you are doing is working, go with it. If we need to learn more music stuff (theory) to get where we want to be then, we learn it.
A little anecdote....
My dad is 81 years old and has been blowing a horn (clarinet => saxophone => clarinet) for over 70 years. I CAN NOT talk music with him without my patience running thin. He knows a ton of theory! As soon as I try to explain something relative to my music theory and how I use it he gets ignorantly indignant because, for him it is not relative or useful. His theory revolves around woodwinds in classical music in an orchestra ensemble or as a soloist and he’s damn good at what he does. His priorities are to look/study sheet music with treble clef and pick it apart with his horn from start to finish until he can finally play at tempo either as a solo or as part of an orchestra. If I bring up chord progressions and chord scales and inversions and syncopated rhythms etc... none of it matters or is “important”.
The problems arise when you are talking to someone and the things you are talking about and how your music theory relates to what is important to your applications are regarded as unimportant or not useful because it doesn’t relate to that persons musical priorities.
My takeaway from all of this disfunctionality is to always make an effort to understand through discussion with them, what other musicians are doing and how/why they’re doing something that I don’t understand.
Knowing “music stuff” (theory) enables us to understand and communicate effectively with others.
Hi, my name is John.......thank you for listening.
I learned music theory when I learned to work the saxophone, and I play just what I feel.
But I never applied music theory when I learned to work the bass. That has worked fine for me because I've been in covers and tribute projects or pre-written originals projects my entire "career" and it simply hasn't been needed.
However, if you're in a jam band or do alot of improv, then you're going to need it.
So, do you need music theory? No.
But, would music theory make you a better and/or more versatile bass player? Absolutely. Just the same as being primarily a fingerpicker, but learning slap, tap, or pick playing would make you more versatile.
And this is why I'm starting to apply my knowledge of music theory to my bass playing.
But I never applied music theory when I learned to work the bass. That has worked fine for me because I've been in covers and tribute projects or pre-written originals projects my entire "career" and it simply hasn't been needed.
However, if you're in a jam band or do alot of improv, then you're going to need it.
So, do you need music theory? No.
But, would music theory make you a better and/or more versatile bass player? Absolutely. Just the same as being primarily a fingerpicker, but learning slap, tap, or pick playing would make you more versatile.
And this is why I'm starting to apply my knowledge of music theory to my bass playing.
"Music is a medium that moves in time and you are always playing your knowledge base...or lack thereof" ... Anthony Wellington
More knowledge is ALWAYS better than less knowledge. Your ability to react to changes in a music passage is a direct reflection of your knowledge base. This is where theory becomes valuable. Granted, a LOT of music doesn't require a lot of theory...but sometimes it does...
More knowledge is ALWAYS better than less knowledge. Your ability to react to changes in a music passage is a direct reflection of your knowledge base. This is where theory becomes valuable. Granted, a LOT of music doesn't require a lot of theory...but sometimes it does...
Jim Carr
Dr. Jim
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Haven't read the whole tread, but I feel the need to point out the following.
What many talkbass denizens think of as Music Theory, actual music theorists call "Music Fundamentals."
Such Music Theory is much more concerned with explaining how those fundamentals are used to generate forms,
voice leading patterns, and larger deeper musical relationships, no matter what style.
What many talkbass denizens think of as Music Theory, actual music theorists call "Music Fundamentals."
Such Music Theory is much more concerned with explaining how those fundamentals are used to generate forms,
voice leading patterns, and larger deeper musical relationships, no matter what style.
For me a lot of music theory was learning names for what I already knew, and greatly improved my ability to communicate with fellow band mates. I’m fairly certain you would not want to have surgery performed by a doctor referring to your malady as “that thing a ma bobs got to come out.”
That is, unless it's pure mutilated fusion, or honkery at the highest degree, then it really doesn't seem to matter much...
Yep.. mine is. Theoretically, to make a sort of music. you plug everything in, and turn it on. Hit a string and some kind of a note flies out of a speaker.
Due to time restrictions I only got as far as page 5 but I commend the OP for starting this. I've read some less interesting replies (to put it mildly), but the great majority was well-worded and intelligent and provided me with more insight in these matters than I already had. I'll spare you my opinion on the matter, thinking it'll be clear from this reply. Thanks, IamGroot (I hope you know what "groot" means in Dutch. I'm Dutch, hence...)
Timon
Timon
The OP asked if you need it, then polled how much you use it. I am sure there are a lot of great players on this forum and on the big stages that were never formally trained. For me personally, there has been a direct correlation between the time I have taken to figure out how and why music works, and the frequency, opportunity, quality, and enjoyment of my practice and gigs.
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Good post! And yes, some of those who understand Expert theory (by your definition) seem prone to pedantism. I just ignore them, nothing they say means much outside of academics, and usually has little to do with performance. Arguing over semantics regarding the naming of some obscure chord holds little interest for me.
