• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Does a reverse headstock tighten up the low end?

#61
@BruceWane The base tension is irrelevant to fretting. It's the rate of tension increase that determines the fretting feel. An extreme and unlikely rw comparo, a huge jazz box with a short tailpiece and 25.5" scale withe the same strings and setup as a tele, there's more string to stretch from end to end on the box and thus the total tension will increase at a lower rate from open to fretted and from fretted to bent than the t. A floppy b string isn't just floppy at fret zero, it's floppy on one, two and beyond. (IME, YMMV, etc. Until someone buys me a fishing scale) Increasing total string length whilst keeping the scale length will not contribute to a stiffer B, the point of the thread. If all basses had reverse inline heads, would a regular inline or 2/3 or 3/2 inherently have a stiffer b than usual solely because of the shorter unplayed string length? maybe, but the opposite as theorized in the op will not make any strides whatsoever in ancieving a stiffer b.


The ideal trem guitar if I cared to have the dive option would have the rare non fine tuner fr set non-pull, a slick nut and locking tuners. These days I just bend the neck (oh no!) or grab a bend before the pick hits when I want a little downward trem;)
 
Last edited:
#62
skipping a few pages to post this: i play 4s tuned dgcf. i like having the thickest string wound on the post furthest from the nut because that helps keep the string windings proper from being wrapped on the tuner post. i believe this helps maintain the 'integrity' of the string in some manner. this is also important as i have several 32" scale basses.

not sure if this counts for anything being discussed here; hopefully it helps someone somewhere sometime.
 
#64
Davo-LON said:
...Frequency = [(Tension/Mass)^0.5]/2 x Length...

...TBers are commonly wanting more tension in their B-string and they like to solve this by buying a new bass with a longer scale length. In a way this is exacerbating the problem. If we increase the scale length then we need more tension to maintain the same pitch. If you want more tension then the obvious thing to do is to get a heavier gauge string...
Click to expand...
Wrong, sorry. Keeping Frequency and Mass in your equation fixed while increasing Length requires an increase in Tension. This would not be exacerbating, i.e. decreasing the severity of the problem of "wanting more tension," it would be ameliorating it, i.e., solving the problem of wanting string tension by creating more tension.

Yes, one may change Mass alone to change tension, but the balance between low B string Mass and the gauge of the other strings on the instrument may become an issue. I might add that string gauge also affects the tone color of the string, so one must pay the piper eventually. :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: MattZilla
#65
MattZilla said:
@BruceWane The base tension is irrelevant to fretting. It's the rate of tension increase that determines the fretting feel. An extreme and unlikely rw comparo, a huge jazz box with a short tailpiece and 25.5" scale withe the same strings and setup as a tele, there's more string to stretch from end to end on the box and thus the total tension will increase at a lower rate from open to fretted and from fretted to bent than the t. A floppy b string isn't just floppy at fret zero, it's floppy on one, two and beyond. (IME, YMMV, etc. Until someone buys me a fishing scale) Increasing total string length whilst keeping the scale length will not contribute to a stiffer B, the point of the thread.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we're saying the same thing. If anything, extending the string length beyond the nut will make the string feel a bit looser in normal use - fretting, bending, etc.


The ideal trem guitar if I cared to have the dive option would have the rare non fine tuner fr set non-pull, a slick nut and locking tuners. These days I just bend the neck (oh no!) when I want a little downward trem;)
Click to expand...

My token six string has a LR Baggs XBridge (piezo system, with an LR Baggs Control-X preamp), dive only, with Sperzels. The XBridge/XControl gets a shockingly good acoustic sound. It's also got EMG 85/S/81 pickups, so it covers all my needs really well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MattZilla
#66
BboogieXVII said:
...seems that it would lengthen the low end scale in an unofficial way and perhaps therefore tighten up the B...
Click to expand...
As others have noted, the "low end scale" is only that portion of the string between the nut and the bridge. What I am wondering about is the idea of "unofficial way." Can you explain this? :cool::cool::cool:

The pitch of the string as a factor in string tension is fixed if we are describing a low B string and using A 44o Hz as our tuning reference. Scale length is nut to bridge, which only can be varied by the instrument's maker. The Mass of the string is the only other significant contributor.

So "unofficial way" stuff must be done by what, Wizards? ;););):roflmao:
 
Last edited:
#67
Dogbertday said:
On my DB I reverse the E and A strings to make the length from but to tuning peg longer on my E string. I hear a clear difference but that's because it's a stronger connection through more of the instrument and enhances the low end acoustically (not noticeable through an amp). A lot of the sound of that instrument comes from the scroll when playing open strings because of this connection. In an acoustic instrument the vibrations of the whole instrument matter not just the string.

If there's an effect on BG by doing this I'd assume it's limited to the acoustic sound. It MIGHT enhance the tone of an ABG a bit though.
Click to expand...

I reverse the E and A on my Upright to get more down force at the witness point (nut)--- If I don't do this, I get string vibration on the E (like a bass guitar that's missing a string tree.

I trust that if what you hear is better for you ---- keep doing it, but I believe the entire instrument vibrates when an open string is played, no matter where you connect the string after the nut. That being said, there's lots of discussion of the effect of "tuning" the after bridge section of a DB,
maybe there is a similar effect you getting by changing the length of the string from the nut to the tuning peg.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MattZilla, Dogbertday, lz4005 and 1 other person
#70
Slevage said:
I reverse the E and A on my Upright to get more down force at the witness point (nut)--- If I don't do this, I get string vibration on the E (like a bass guitar that's missing a string tree.

I trust that if what you hear is better for you ---- keep doing it, but I believe the entire instrument vibrates when an open string is played, no matter where you connect the string after the nut. That being said, there's lots of discussion of the effect of "tuning" the after bridge section of a DB,
maybe there is a similar effect you getting by changing the length of the string from the nut to the tuning peg.
Click to expand...

It's very possible. All I know is I heard a tone difference when I first tried it. My low E seemed smoother. Not sure what physics/phychosis is at play
 
#71
You see the same kind of talk relative to through body stringing. Gary Willis even talks of putting spacers at the ball end of the string. I'm pretty sure it's all voodoo plus stringing through the body reduces your options in string selection.

Speaking of voodoo - have you seen the $800 HDMI cables you can buy online? Some of tehm are so good you don't even need a TV to get an amazing picture.
 
  • Like
Reactions: blindrabbit
#73
BboogieXVII said:
Would it? It seems that it would lengthen the low end scale in an unofficial way and perhaps therefore tighten up the B and E strings on 5 or 6 stringers and the low E on a 4 banger. What say ye?
Click to expand...
This thread is solid gold.

l1.jpg
 
#77
Slevage said:
I went fishing this weekend. When I weighed the fish I caught (it was a bass, believe it or not), it weighed 3 pounds on my fish scale.

If the hook were stuck in the fishes mouth and I tied the 2 feet of line that was still attached to the hook in the fish's mouth to the fish scale,
the fish would still weigh 3 pounds even though the string got longer.------ Same pull (tension) on the spring in the scale.
Click to expand...

How does this relate to behing-the-nut string length?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Obese Chess
#78
Bass Pedal Geek said:
I got one of those and still to this day, I often swap the B and A strings when tuning. Might be because it rarely needs to be tuned though :)

Well, I don't know if it matters, but my Emperor 5 does have the best B-string I have ever had on a 34" bass. That said, I also did have a 4-string Celinder with reverse headstock at some point, but never noticed any difference on the E-string...
Click to expand...

Your Emperor is also a singlecut made of incredibly high quality strong wood. This is an argument for the structural integrity of the bass being an important factor in a good B string.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back