Dream Bass Let-Down

[Passinwind]

(First-off I want to state that this has nothing to do with the instrument. It's strictly a personal "feeling".)

Ever since I was a kid seeing pictures of Jones or Entwistle with their Alembics, I considered their basses the absolute tops. Then when they came out with the Distillate, I'd thought that would be the perfect dream bass. They seemed smaller and simpler. I remember my brother bringing the new guitar player mags home with the ads in there and just drooling over them. Unfortunately, the local guitar shops have always been pretty lacking in quality inventory and I'd never been able to actually try one out. Fast-forward 35 years and I finally had the opportunity to take the plunge. The one with the right wood, scale and nut width came up at a time I actually could afford to buy it. It looks, plays and sounds really good ... But ... It doesn't do a thing for me. I've been a Fender and Rickenbacker guy all my life and this just feels too different. I've been playing it every day for a month and I just can't get used to it. I've really tried, but I'm coming to the realization that it's probably just not for me.
Has anyone else gone through something like this?

Yep, kind of. I owned a mid-70s Fender Jazz Bass for about a year and never bonded with it at all. But it was never a dream of mine to own one, just a feeling that I should at least try owning one once since it is such a standard. I've since played many much nicer ones, so a lot of it was on me for settling for a cheap crappy one. But I've also learned that Fenders are just not my thing. No hate, or even dislike, just not my thing.

OTOH, my current favorite bass was one I never had any GAS for at all. You never know until you know.

 

[Bruce Boogie]

Out of my basses I have preferences but basically love ''em all.
My pink & blue Rickies are wonderful for any occasion.
My Steinberger is wonderful for rehearsals, small & nimble.
Hardly use the fretless and 5 string (work of the devil!) but enjoy the odd twang.
The rest are seldom out of storage but when I collect one I'm so pleased.
Amps make a big difference to most basses and I now find my Jeff Berlin, Mark Bass covers most gigs; even though loads of people hate them. I don't slap so the deep sound suits.
Most gigs I use my Dog House double bass with an K & K Rockabilly pickup set up.
Horses for courses and each to their own, nobody has the monopoly on being right!!
Boogie On

Gals'n'Guys

 

[Attilla D]

I have a feeling that this is more common than we'd like to think. I had a couple of axes in the past that were just incredible, one not easy to come by in some regions, they were just not a great fit for me and that in itself sucked! I could have held onto them, but really what would be the point there, right? But if nothing else, I can say that I HAD a Moonstone once, and I HAD a FireGlo Rick once, and I hope that whoever has them now loves them like I couldn't.

 

[Clark W]

I had the same experience with redhead women when I was single......... Thought it was a good idea, just couldn't get into it. I tried, but had to go back to blondes....................

Redheads are my Achilles Heel.

 

[DanGR]

With all due respect, that’s not the case. The tone blocks are for sustain. The choice of top woods does indeed influence each instrument’s fundamental sound, and they’re selected with care by Alembic.

I just now took a break from playing two of my Alembic Essences, one topped with maple and one with cocobolo. The differences are unmistakable. It’s absurd to think that Alembic wants to sonically neuter its instruments.

I went searching the interweb for a link to a Bass Player Magazine interview with Alembic that talked about this very subject and I guess it's too old so nothing. This lead me to have to search through my dozens of Bass Player magazines to find it. I haven't yet, but I did find their 1993 Buyer's Guide (Nov/Dec 1992) in which they did a product profile of the Essence. Low and behold (One of the 2 Alembics I've owned was a 5 string Essence) the Essence doesn't have the " Traditional Sustain Block". This might explain why your top woods affect the tone so much.

 

[El Thumpo]

I went searching the interweb for a link to a Bass Player Magazine interview with Alembic that talked about this very subject and I guess it's too old so nothing. This lead me to have to search through my dozens of Bass Player magazines to find it. I haven't yet, but I did find their 1993 Buyer's Guide (Nov/Dec 1992) in which they did a product profile of the Essence. Low and behold (One of the 2 Alembics I've owned was a 5 string Essence) the Essence doesn't have the " Traditional Sustain Block". This might explain why your top woods affect the tone so much.

While standard Essences don’t have sustain blocks, many of the dozens of Alembics I’ve played do in fact have them. The idea that the sustain block is somehow a “tone block” intended to remove the sonic qualities of wood is fundamentally a misconception.

I suggest checking out the Alembic Wood Samples page, at [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. As it states, “Click the section titles to get a more detailed description of how the different wood options will affect the sound of the instrument. ”

Cocobolo, for instance: “As a Rosewood, the tone is complex - bright from the density and dark from the oils in the wood.”

Here’s Koa: “a mellow tone, with big, plump low end response. Better for fingerstyle playing as a slapper will have to fight its mellow nature.”

They also point out that the differing tonal quality of top woods is more pronounced on neck-throughs than on set necks.

The bottom line is this: far from trying to neuter the qualities of wood types, they make it central to their customization process. That sustain block (when it’s there) is just for sustain.

 

[Jeff Scott]

I always knew of that block as being the sustain block, not a "tone" block. It is there to be its part in the whole energy transfer/reflection system of the strings' energy as that helps isolate the body wood from the mechanical system that is comprised of the strings, nut, neck, bridge, and sustain block.

 

[DanGR]

While standard Essences don’t have sustain blocks, many of the dozens of Alembics I’ve played do in fact have them. The idea that the sustain block is somehow a “tone block” intended to remove the sonic qualities of wood is fundamentally a misconception.

I suggest checking out the Alembic Wood Samples page, at [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. As it states, “Click the section titles to get a more detailed description of how the different wood options will affect the sound of the instrument. ”

Cocobolo, for instance: “As a Rosewood, the tone is complex - bright from the density and dark from the oils in the wood.”

Here’s Koa: “a mellow tone, with big, plump low end response. Better for fingerstyle playing as a slapper will have to fight its mellow nature.”

They also point out that the differing tonal quality of top woods is more pronounced on neck-throughs than on set necks.

The bottom line is this: far from trying to neuter the qualities of wood types, they make it central to their customization process. That sustain block (when it’s there) is just for sustain.

Well, it was literally the last Bass Player Magazine in a box of over 100, but I found it. It's the February 1997 issue that has an article titled "Inside Alembic-A Factory Tour". In the section of "Construction" Mica Wickersham, daughter of Alembic founder Ron Wickersham states: "The brass sustain block is an important Alembic feature. It's installed in the top, under the bridge. It makes the area of wood surrounding the bridge INERT, so the strings ring clearly, with great sustain. The bridge fastens to the sustain block; since the sustain block's mass helps to create the 'Alembic sound,' our customers are more free to choose a wood because of how it looks--not how it sounds. "

 

[Kevin Teed]

Hmm, I've always viewed the "Tone" system as a circle, with the wood in between the nut (fret) and tailpiece also having at least some effect. That's why it makes a big difference what wood the fretboard is, IMO.

Back to the original subject, I had taken the Distillate out of my "living room" rotation for a week, replacing it with a '58 AVRI P-bass, then brought it back.
Tone and playability are certainly not the issue with the Alembic. It sounds like, well, an Alembic! Very versatile, great ring and punch.
My issue with it is ergonomics. It "feels" funny.

 

[cosmicevan]

Well, it was literally the last Bass Player Magazine in a box of over 100, but I found it. It's the February 1997 issue that has an article titled "Inside Alembic-A Factory Tour". In the section of "Construction" Mica Wickersham, daughter of Alembic founder Ron Wickersham states: "The brass sustain block is an important Alembic feature. It's installed in the top, under the bridge. It makes the area of wood surrounding the bridge INERT, so the strings ring clearly, with great sustain. The bridge fastens to the sustain block; since the sustain block's mass helps to create the 'Alembic sound,' our customers are more free to choose a wood because of how it looks--not how it sounds. "

Wow. You were able to justify holding onto those magazines for 20 years in this instant. Good on you!

I gave my box up about a decade ago when I needed some packing material for a shipment. Crumpled up interviews with yesterday's bass hero's really protects your shipments and keeps the weight down

 

[Jeff Scott]

My issue with it is ergonomics. It "feels" funny.

Nothing some simple hand tools, and perhaps a bandsaw couldn't fix. BTDT with a 1973 Telecaster Bass back in the mid '70s.

 

[Kevin Teed]

Nothing some simple hand tools, and perhaps a bandsaw couldn't fix. BTDT with a 1973 Telecaster Bass back in the mid '70s.

I am pretty handy with a chainsaw.

Custom made Flamed-Koa toothpicks anyone?

 

[El Thumpo]

Well, it was literally the last Bass Player Magazine in a box of over 100, but I found it. It's the February 1997 issue that has an article titled "Inside Alembic-A Factory Tour". In the section of "Construction" Mica Wickersham, daughter of Alembic founder Ron Wickersham states: "The brass sustain block is an important Alembic feature. It's installed in the top, under the bridge. It makes the area of wood surrounding the bridge INERT, so the strings ring clearly, with great sustain. The bridge fastens to the sustain block; since the sustain block's mass helps to create the 'Alembic sound,' our customers are more free to choose a wood because of how it looks--not how it sounds. "

Wow. I have to say, that's some pretty good digging through the past, both physically and in your memory. Good on you.

The quote is...problematic, to say the least. I can see why you'd get the impression that Alembic was neutering the tonal input of woods, although everything else they've said and done in the last fifty years goes in the opposite direction. It may be that Mica meant the sustain block somewhat mitigates the top wood's contribution, not that it eliminates it entirely.

I think I'll take this to the Alembic forum, and see if Mica can take the time to clarify. No doubt it's not a priority for her to do so--old water under the bridge--but it's interesting to see how a quote like this can take root. Thanks for spelunking though your past.

 

[grrg63]

Ever since I was a kid seeing pictures of Jones or Entwistle with their Alembics, I considered their basses the absolute tops.

JPJ & Entwistle are 2 of my favorite players and 2 of the reasons I wanted to play bass in the first place. But I never really liked how even they sounded with Alembics. To me, they usually sound thin and lacking bottom end. I know Entwistle always went for a very trebly sound but it sounded way better when he was doing it with other basses. I have heard a few guys make them sound good but its pretty rare.

 

[DanGR]

Wow. I have to say, that's some pretty good digging through the past, both physically and in your memory. Good on you.

The quote is...problematic, to say the least. I can see why you'd get the impression that Alembic was neutering the tonal input of woods, although everything else they've said and done in the last fifty years goes in the opposite direction. It may be that Mica meant the sustain block somewhat mitigates the top wood's contribution, not that it eliminates it entirely.

I think I'll take this to the Alembic forum, and see if Mica can take the time to clarify. No doubt it's not a priority for her to do so--old water under the bridge--but it's interesting to see how a quote like this can take root. Thanks for spelunking though your past.

The very next paragraph goes on to say that the body does contribute to the tone about 15-20%. I think it's less than a standard bridge bass. If fact G&L bridges have a "slot" that goes into the body and my L2500 has the best and deepest tone of any of the 30-40 basses I've owned.

 

[Passinwind]

Wow. I have to say, that's some pretty good digging through the past, both physically and in your memory. Good on you.

The quote is...problematic, to say the least. I can see why you'd get the impression that Alembic was neutering the tonal input of woods, although everything else they've said and done in the last fifty years goes in the opposite direction. It may be that Mica meant the sustain block somewhat mitigates the top wood's contribution, not that it eliminates it entirely.

I think I'll take this to the Alembic forum, and see if Mica can take the time to clarify. No doubt it's not a priority for her to do so--old water under the bridge--but it's interesting to see how a quote like this can take root. Thanks for spelunking though your past.

One of the luthiers I work with made a similar comment about my open source (i.e. non-commercial/DIY oriented) preamp design, which coincidentally is at least partly Alembic-inspired. More so in regard to pickups, and pickup's are one of that guy's main differentiators marketing wise. My take is kind of that my design might actually allow more differentiated pickups, or other options on his end that might not otherwise work out so well. So in that sense Mica's comments make sense to me. One fork in my design brief specifically mentions "neutering", and that word has brought some occasional pushback, which is great by me since all feedback is useful for a truly open source thing.

In any case, I've always been a pretty big fan of how Alembic does things, and of many of their well known players.

 

[DarnellBass]

Alembics are magical imo. It WILL sound the way you want it to sound; it all has to do with your intention. Your very right about it being a blank canvas.
I just posted this thread on my Series I (I's), if interested...
Alembic Series I. 77' vs. 97' -Sound Test

 

[Nebadon2000]

I wanted a USA Stingray Classic for a few years and finally found a USA SUB Stingray for a decent price. Brought it home and played it but it never sat right with me. It could have been the painted neck, or the string spacing or both. After playing P’s for years I’ve just gotten used to them. Aesthetically, the Stingray is great. Tone wise, also great. For me, playability, not so great. Maybe I need to try one with a SLO neck, idk.

Sterling by Musicman has the Stingray34QM. QM models have the SLO neck. The 2019 models have a Roasted Maple neck at $799 BUT the 2018 model's are being discounted $599 new for QM models.

 

[Kevin Teed]

** Update time **

I've played it off and on for another month or so and it's just not for me. The tone-versatility is great, but I just don't like how it feels.

It's on the chopping block.

 

[Jeff Scott]

** Update time **

I've played it off and on for another month or so and it's just not for me. The tone-versatility is great, but I just don't like how it feels.

It's on the chopping block.

Remember to remove all the electronics and metal first, before you use it for firewood!