Dua Lipa "Levitating" infringement lawsuit

[Grinderman]

I just listened to 'Live Your Life' for about 10 seconds, out of curiosity, then I hard-noped on that. If I can't stand listening that song to begin with then I only feel more certain the prospect of listening to Dua Lipa or 'Levitating' is a non-starter. I've already heard, seen, and read more than I care to.

 

[smtp4me]

Okay then. Please point out the dozens of songs that use the same chord progression and rhythm and melody as these songs.

I'll work on that.

And yet, even though the law did not change two days ago, we don't see an avalanche of lawsuits against every big hit. Why is that?

Well... in order for artist 1 to willfully copy artist 2, artist 1 must be aware of artist 2's work. In order for artist 2 to sue artist 1, the same rules apply - artist 2 must be aware that artist 1 made a copy. If Dua Lipa was as unknown as Artikal, they would likely not know of her alleged copy and would not sue. But... Dua Lipa's version is obviously and significantly more widely known. Maybe that makes an easy target for a money grab...

But I digress. I wrote "IF artists resort to litigation every time two songs are similar...". As you mention, they don't, and there could be any number of reasons why, including but not limited to what I just described above.

The current standard is that the similarities need to be expressible in standard notation, and there is no relevant prior art. Contrary to your earlier claims, chord progressions can be copyrighted, if they are sufficiently unique. If it goes to court, then it is the jury that draw the line.

I would be interested to learn about a chord progression so unique that no one, ever, in the history of written and recorded music, has not already authored it. Hence my point. I would wager that in the history of written and recorded music, someone already used this similar progression, and melody, and rhythm, prior to Artikal. Perhaps they have a valid case too...

 

[MrClassicMetal]

Remember the Joe Satriani vs Coldplay case?





It was eventually settled out of court.

And then there were the Rolling Stones and K.D. Lang regarding the song Anybody Seen My Baby.



That one never even went to court. Keith was completely open and honest about it, and freely admitted that he had unintentionally copied K.D. Lang's Constant Craving.



The Stones approached Lang and gave her credit as a co-writer, and she thought that was very cool.

 

[andare]

If you follow my comment history in this thread (not that you want to), I am not necessarily arguing against the similarities. My point is that the similarities are very common. If I wanted to argue against the similarities, I would highlight all the differences, because there are as many differences as there are similarities.

I agree with you that copyright cases are won/settled in situations with less similarity. This is an assumption, but would guess the reason for that is the people who make the final decision - a jury or judge - do not have the musical knowledge required to understand how often chords, rhythms, melodies etc. are repeated. If they understood that a 1, 4, 5 progression is one of the most common, and there are only 12 notes to choose as the root key signature, and that major and minor scales are the most common, etc., if they were presented with data showing this, they might rule differently.

Do I think the songs are very similar? Yes. My point is that if artists resort to litigation every time two songs are similar, we would need a separate legal system to handle the case load. And the artists themselves (Artikal for example) would be hypocritical to overlook the similarities between their songs and others that came before. Rihanna released a song in 2008 called "Life Your Life". Should she sue Artikal for ripping off the title? Where do we draw the line between "influence" and "plagiarism" with something so subjective as music?

Then find another song that sounds as close to this one to show us how common it is to write similar songs.
Litigation is the only resort for smaller bands when an international star (or their team) rips them off. Should they just eat it?

 

[James Collins]

Okay then. Please point out the dozens of songs that use the same chord progression and rhythm and melody as these songs.

 

[andare]

I stand (partially) corrected. I still think the chorus in Dua Lipa's song is a ripoff of the other one.

 

[MrClassicMetal]

3 and 4 are the same song in different languages.

Dua Lipa's sounds a lot more like that tune from that Floridian band.

 

[James Collins]

3 and 4 are the same song in different languages.

Dua Lipa's sounds a lot more like that tune from that Floridian band.

Also possible they all just ripped off the same one of these bands and ended up in a similar place. Unfortunately, I think most cord progressions and melodies have already been used if you just look hard enough. I've never heard the reggae song in the reference, but the melody still sounds familiar to me. I can't put my finger on where i know it from. But it could just be any song with the progression 1 5 4 4.

 

[smtp4me]

Then find another song that sounds as close to this one to show us how common it is to write similar songs.
Litigation is the only resort for smaller bands when an international star (or their team) rips them off. Should they just eat it?

I don't know of another song of the top of my head. Given enough time I'm sure I can find another one that is similar, and written before Artikal's. Similar being the operative word. Because...

The songs are not identical. In previous posts I have described specifically how they are similar but not identical. Once it is established the are not identical, we have to step back and see how they are similar, and this is where chords and melodies become more common.

 

[smtp4me]

Also possible they all just ripped off the same one of these bands and ended up in a similar place. Unfortunately, I think most cord progressions and melodies have already been used if you just look hard enough. I've never heard the reggae song in the reference, but the melody still sounds familiar to me. I can't put my finger on where i know it from. But it could just be any song with the progression 1 5 4 4.

Agreed. And I think I know an example - Pony by Ginuwine. It has a 1, 5, 4, 4 progression, in a minor key (C# minor). And the notes of the melody are similar (because of course they would be when using chord tones from the same progression). Maybe he should sue Artikal.

 

[smtp4me]

Okay then. Please point out the dozens of songs that use the same chord progression and rhythm and melody as these songs.



And yet, even though the law did not change two days ago, we don't see an avalanche of lawsuits against every big hit. Why is that?



The current standard is that the similarities need to be expressible in standard notation, and there is no relevant prior art. Contrary to your earlier claims, chord progressions can be copyrighted, if they are sufficiently unique. If it goes to court, then it is the jury that draw the line.

You keep harping on the song title "live your life," but that's too generic to copyright. However, if a song title is sufficiently unique -- e.g. "Tymps (The Sick in the Head Song)" -- and someone uses that title for a different song, they may very well get a nastygram from Fiona Apple's lawyers.

No one can be sued solely because they used blues progression. That doesn't mean you can "write" a song that uses the exact same chord changes and melody and rhythm and guitar fills as Robert Cray's "Smoking Gun" and claim that copyright doesn't apply, because "it's a blues tune!"

In the meantime, I found one quick example: Pony by Ginuwine. Written in C# minor with a 1, 5, 4, 4 progression and similar melody content, which is to be expected when choosing chord tones for the melody with a similar progression.

 

[James Collins]

In the meantime, I found one quick example: Pony by Ginuwine. Written in C# minor with a 1, 5, 4, 4 progression and similar melody content, which is to be expected when choosing chord tones for the melody with a similar progression.

I think the song I'm thinking of is probably something like Cosmic Girl by Jamiroquai. Or maybe something by like Earth Wind and Fire or Bruno Mars. The bass line just feels really familiar to me.

Cosmic Girl is in Bm and just uses the 4 and 5 chords in it's progression.

 

[sunbeast]

If you follow my comment history in this thread (not that you want to), I am not necessarily arguing against the similarities. My point is that the similarities are very common. If I wanted to argue against the similarities, I would highlight all the differences, because there are as many differences as there are similarities.

I agree with you that copyright cases are won/settled in situations with less similarity. This is an assumption, but would guess the reason for that is the people who make the final decision - a jury or judge - do not have the musical knowledge required to understand how often chords, rhythms, melodies etc. are repeated. If they understood that a 1, 4, 5 progression is one of the most common, and there are only 12 notes to choose as the root key signature, and that major and minor scales are the most common, etc., if they were presented with data showing this, they might rule differently.

Do I think the songs are very similar? Yes. My point is that if artists resort to litigation every time two songs are similar, we would need a separate legal system to handle the case load. And the artists themselves (Artikal for example) would be hypocritical to overlook the similarities between their songs and others that came before. Rihanna released a song in 2008 called "Life Your Life". Should she sue Artikal for ripping off the title? Where do we draw the line between "influence" and "plagiarism" with something so subjective as music?

Same key, nearly the same exact chord progression, same groove, same melody, nearly same rhythm of vocal of vocal delivery (basically just that the Artikal song has a few more words/syllables, necessitating a slightly different rhythm in parts, but the rhythmic emphases are mostly identical). Even the night/light and sunrise/starlight/moonlight similarities. You add those all up and I frankly don’t understand how there could be much reasonable doubt. If it were only two or three of those things, then I might have some doubt but short of a direct reference or sample they are virtually as close as one could get and still think it might fly under the radar (or it could have been genuinely unintentional, as producers these days are often just scouring existing music constantly for ideas and samples to chop up).

 

[DJ Bebop]

Rick Beatto played both choruses at the same time, and they are virtually identical.

But he did speed up the reggae band's song to make it fit the tempo of the DL song

 

[James Collins]

To be fair we are really just comparing the chorus of the two songs. Much of the song is easily distinguishable. The comparison is being made with a sped up version of the Artikal song to make the tempos match.

The key is Bm on both of them. The chord progression is different. The melody is similar but not identical. The rhythm is similar but not identical. The words and theme are different. The music isn't sampled. The groove can't be the same and different tempos.

The melody is clearly similar on the two tracks. However, I don't think you should be able to own the order of 8 notes or chords which is what we are talking about here.

Because they are in the same key, they will sound correct together when overlayed even the part that uses the i chord with the iv chord since those chords sound good together. This is basically what they did when they made that country music super mix. Just put everything in the same key and it sounds like they same song.

 

[andare]

In the meantime, I found one quick example: Pony by Ginuwine. Written in C# minor with a 1, 5, 4, 4 progression and similar melody content, which is to be expected when choosing chord tones for the melody with a similar progression.

I don't hear the resemblance at all. This one is slower, different arrangement, different voice etc. While the song structure might be similar, there's just too much in the Dua Lipa song that is almost identical to the Artikal song. But I guess we hear what we want to hear.

 

[James Collins]

I don't hear the resemblance at all. This one is slower, different arrangement, different voice etc. While the song structure might be similar, there's just too much in the Dua Lipa song that is almost identical to the Artikal song. But I guess we hear what we want to hear.

I agree. Pony might be the same chord progression, but it is substantially different.

I just can't put my finger on it, but there is some other song that i think sounds familiar. I will keep thinking. In my brain i can't really narrow it down much. I keep thinking it sounds like a Shakira song or a Hall and Oats song. But i just can't identify it.

 

[turf3]

I agree. Pony might be the same chord progression, but it is substantially different.

I just can't put my finger on it, but there is some other song that i think sounds familiar. I will keep thinking. In my brain i can't really narrow it down much. I keep thinking it sounds like a Shakira song or a Hall and Oats song. But i just can't identify it.

Meh, go to the mall, every third song that comes over the PAzak sounds like it.

 

[lermgalieu]

The key is Bm on both of them. The chord progression is different. The melody is similar but not identical. The rhythm is similar but not identical. The words and theme are different. The music isn't sampled. The groove can't be the same and different tempos.

The test for infringement here (as opposed to sampling) is substantial similarity, not "identical." If you are bored, you can look up the factor-based tests underlying substantial similarity. Rather than do that, however, I am going back to lawyering I actually get paid for ;-)

 

[HeadWind]

Oh I'm sure they are not claiming ownership of the progression. I was being facetious . My point is that the 1, 4, 5 chord progression is about as common in music as the phrase "good morning" is in English. I'm not a legal expert, but I believe copyright and trademark infringement does not apply when something is very common.

Interestingly, my band is starting to work on this song (check out the NPR Tiny Desk (home) version, it's pretty good), and we do Bm - D - Em (1, flat3, 4) rather than 1,5,4. No of course, F#m and D are pretty similar chords. F# (the note) is the major third of D (the major chord), the main difference is throwing in that D which would have been an augmented 5th of F#m (or else just the 6th of the ionian).

But that D really works when I am playing it (mostly arpeggiating) over the tiny desk version. I do hit the F# on the 1 the second measure, but fill it in with the A and D and it sounds good.

Anyway, Dua Lipa should claim that it's Bm - D - Em while the other guys use F#m. You heard it here first.