E#. Wait, what?

[mellowinman]

I already answered this earlier and directly to one of your posts.

No you didn't.

 

[stringtapper]

No you didn't.

Read it and weep:

#156

 

[mellowinman]

Absolutely 100% wrong.

Why?

Because of one thing: function.

An F and an E# are going to function differently depending on the harmonic context.

If I play an F during the G7 of a G7–>CMaj7 progression I better resolve that F downward to the E (7th of G7 resolving down to 3rd of CMaj7).

If I play an E# in the C#7 of a C#7–>F#Maj7 progression then I better resolve that E# upward to the F# (3rd of C#7 resolving up to Root of F#Maj7).

^ These are what musical facts look like.

Say it doesn't matter in rock music all you like, but that's ultimately off-topic and a dodge.

Why "better" you do those things. If you play an E# in the C#7 of a C#7–>F#Maj7 progression, and you resolve that E# downward to the E, what would happen? Would you explode? Would all the air get sucked out of the room? Would little ants eat our flesh?

You could do it, and you know you could. I don't get along with being told I "better" do anything. I will do as I please.

 

[stringtapper]

This is going in circles. I do not concede the point.

Do you want to do a few more pages of "yes it is, "no it isn't?"

I'll give you this, most people who haven't studied music at the masters or doctoral level probably don't know that there is a difference between a note and a pitch. So you're not alone.

That doesn't make you any less wrong, however.

 

[mellowinman]

The fact is, that unless you are talking about one or two VERY SPECIFIC THINGS, then FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, E# is exactly the same as F.

 

[mellowinman]

I'll give you this, most people who haven't studied music at the masters or doctoral level probably don't know that there is a difference between a note and a pitch. So you're not alone.

That doesn't make you any less wrong, however.

That seems to be very important to you. I will admit I have not studied music at the doctoral level. Nor have most people who belong to this forum. Nor do most people I will play music with. NOR HAS THE OP.

Remember the OP? This is a thread about a guitar player in a band telling a bass player to play E# by bending an E string less than one half step.

 

[stringtapper]

Why "better" you do those things. If you play an E# in the C#7 of a C#7–>F#Maj7 progression, and you resolve that E# downward to the E, what would happen? Would you explode? Would all the air get sucked out of the room? Would little ants eat our flesh?

You could do it, and you know you could. I don't get along with being told I "better" do anything. I will do as I please.

It all comes down to how chord tones function in tonal music. in a V7-I progression the 3rd of the V7 goes up by a half step to the root of the I, and the 7th of the V7 goes down by a half step to the 3rd of the I. That's how they function.

 

[stringtapper]

That seems to be very important to you. I will admit I have not studied music at the doctoral level. Nor have most people who belong to this forum. Nor do most people I will play music with. NOR HAS THE OP.

Remember the OP? This is a thread about a guitar player in a band telling a bass player to play E# by bending an E string less than one half step.

I'm here trying to impart knowledge about how music works. That's all.

If you were right I would be on your side. But you're not. Sorry.

 

[mellowinman]

It all comes down to how chord tones function in tonal music. in a V7-I progression the 3rd of the V7 goes up by a half step to the root of the I, and the 7th of the V7 goes down by a half step to the 3rd of the I. That's how they function.

They don't have to.

A note is a named pitch. Arbitrarily named, of course, by us humans. For example, Western music generally refers to the 440 Hz pitch as A, specifically A4. A note can refer to an occurrence of such a pitch as well. Playing A4 twice can either be talked about as "playing one note twice" or "playing two notes", depending on the context and how specific you want to be. Notes that are even multiples of other notes share the same name; for example, 880 Hz (double 440 Hz) is also called A, specifically A5.

So I can just as easily say "B" and "B" are two different notes, and I'd be just as right as you are when you say E# and F are two different notes.

 

[mellowinman]

I'm here trying to impart knowledge about how music works. That's all.

If you were right I would be on your side. But you're not. Sorry.

I'm trying to impart knowledge on how arbitrary your definition of "note" is. Have you won many debates or arguments by just stating the other person is wrong, and then apologizing for the fact that you have superior knowledge to that person?

 

[mellowinman]

This is my last post about this subject. E# is exactly the same note as F. EXACTLY. There is no discernible difference. That is my position, and I am unwavering.

Have a lovely day.

 

[stringtapper]

They don't have to.

A note is a named pitch. Arbitrarily named, of course, by us humans. For example, Western music generally refers to the 440 Hz pitch as A, specifically A4. A note can refer to an occurrence of such a pitch as well. Playing A4 twice can either be talked about as "playing one note twice" or "playing two notes", depending on the context and how specific you want to be. Notes that are even multiples of other notes share the same name; for example, 880 Hz (double 440 Hz) is also called A, specifically A5.

So I can just as easily say "B" and "B" are two different notes, and I'd be just as right as you are when you say E# and F are two different notes.

Now you're starting to get it. The part in bold is actually not a bad way of explaining how pitches and notes are different.

You only had one problem. The first sentence. Pitches are named.

 

[stringtapper]

This is my last post about this subject. E# is exactly the same note as F. EXACTLY. There is no discernible difference. That is my position, and I am unwavering.

Have a lovely day.

Well, I have already shown this to be false by giving an example of how the two notes would function differently. It's clear you didn't understand what I meant with the explanation.

At least the examples will be there for those who wish to learn why there's a difference.

 

[ReiPsaeg]

E# does exist as a note which is enharmonically equivalent to F, but I don't think the way the OP described is a particularly consistent way to play that note.

 

[joebar]

Why is it when someone wants to argue a point in Music Theory they beat the dead horse until after everyone else has gone home?

nope-
I see a slight pulse-
carry on

 

[stringtapper]

Maybe we could liven things up.

Can someone give me an example of a diminished unison?

 

[fdeck]

Maybe we could liven things up.

Can someone give me an example of a diminished unison?

Two piccolos playing the same note.

 

[MIH]

Maybe we could liven things up.

Can someone give me an example of a diminished unison?

C to C-flat

 

[MIH]

The fact is, that unless you are talking about one or two VERY SPECIFIC THINGS, then FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, E# is exactly the same as F.

No they're not. They don't even look the same.

 

[rogerb]

If someone asked the notes of a C# major chord I would have said C# - F - G# (maybe even Ab!) WRONG, it is C# - E# - G#. I studied theory way back when too. On paper the written triad notes are C - E - G but with the key signature that is a C# major, so it is an E# there, there is no F (written) at all, that is probably why it shouldn't be called in theory an F. If you penned an F it would be an F# you'd need to introduce a 'natural' there to get things back down to an F So if the song is in C# major then you should say E#.