Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
E#. Wait, what?
- Thread starter comatosedragon
- Start date
Tell him he's stupid; the hashtag goes before the E, not after
Rock guitar players are great for saying something like this. I constantly have to decipher things like "figure" (phrase), chop (staccato), understand "flat" to mean "boring" and not actually flat, and by far my favorite: The country note. The country note usually means a pentatonic phrase with a major 3rd stuck somewhere in it. I don't know why this is the country note, but this dude always refers to it that way.
What's sad is that there totally are situations in which E# is a legitimate label, but your guitarist probably has no idea why!
What's sad is that there totally are situations in which E# is a legitimate label, but your guitarist probably has no idea why!
EdwardofHuncote
I Still Dream of Jeannie
- Aug 21, 2013
- 6,668
- 2
- 16,475
- Disclosures
- I privately own and operate a local musical instument repair shop.
I'd have told him to go E# himself. 
Sorry...
Sorry...
Legit, but admittedly bemused, question: why would anyone write in C# Major instead of Db Major? I thought the standard preference was for as few accidentals in a key as necessary? Seven sharps compared to five flats?
Good thing there's no charge because otherwise you would be selling a bill of goods. E# is not F. There is no "F" in the key of F# Major. There is no E# in the key of F.
it's a real note, but its realatively uncommon. i've seen it notated as an F natural in pieces by lizst and chopin. if it was okay for them to make life easier it should be fine for us.
the guitarist is 100% wrong if he thinks it's when you bend an E. but, its a real note and often the correct notation/name for it is infact E#.
the guitarist is 100% wrong if he thinks it's when you bend an E. but, its a real note and often the correct notation/name for it is infact E#.
There's totally a note between E and F. It's called out of tune.
- Sep 9, 2007
- 5,309
- 4,977
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Eventide, GHS Strings, G&L Guitars, NS Design, Tsunami Cables
I find that it depends on who wrote it, and who it's for. Pianists, string players and singers are usually more familiar with sharp keys (as that's how we were taught in school), and would naturally gravitate toward C# Major.
Brass and reed players are more used to seeing flat keys (since the bulk of their instruments are in Bb or Eb), and would naturally gravitate toward Db Major.
To western-weaned ears. In India it's called a micro tone.
Properly bending strings to get both sharp and flat notes was a method discussed in detail in another thread. Here's the link (see post 3292)...
Let's spread some musical misinformation | Page 165 | TalkBass.com
Of course the OP could have just been a wise guy when the guitard said "in the key of E#" and replied back, "how's about I F you instead!"
Hold it right there, buddy! No one talks about my Western wean!
So, I'm too lazy to read the whole thread but - e# is the same as f - but as others have doubtless mentioned, some keys require it.
However - E# is NOT a bent e - a bent e may indeed REACH e# (AKA F) but that is just the wrong way of understanding it.
Yeah, I wasn't trying to downplay my responsibility in any way (I know the role is very important, and I practice constantly trying to better myself); my point was just (around here at least) it is almost impossible to find a bass player. These guys have played for years without one, just because of not being able to find anyone. They have had a few over the years, but guys who wont show up, or only show up the first few months or whatever. I am there every week, always early. Plus I am rather organized, which they all seem to like!
The sharps and flats appear as you go through the "circle of fifths" generating the different tonalities by adding accidentals; just a convention to put some order in this topic. Depending how many modulations in and out of the main tonality you get through the piece, you may want to chose C#. Good point though.
One thing I wanted to add (I learn quite a bit from these threads, and once a while like to offer some different point of view) is that there are actual differences between C# and Db. As there are differences between E# and F. The difference is in one "comma" (Comma (music) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) which happens to be the tiny frequency difference between these two sounds. While almost not perceptible by the human ear, the difference is actually there. Perhaps this provides a way-too-intellectual explanation to this primate-of-a-guitar-player assessment "E# is when you bend an E", but in his ignorance he is not really that far from the truth. Funny huh?
In my many years (31) of playing bass, I have encountered a lot musicians (primarily guitarists) who have to stroke their own ego by belittling the bass player.
Funny thing is it's usually done by players that aren't fit to carry my gear.
Although it has been explained that E# is legitimate depending on what key you are in, the percentage of rock musicians that have this deep knowlege of theory are few and far between. Somehow I doubt that this is the case in your situation.
I would say it's most likely that
A: your band mates were just f@€King with you in a joking sort of way, or..........
B: see the first paragraph of my reply.
Funny thing is it's usually done by players that aren't fit to carry my gear.
Although it has been explained that E# is legitimate depending on what key you are in, the percentage of rock musicians that have this deep knowlege of theory are few and far between. Somehow I doubt that this is the case in your situation.
I would say it's most likely that
A: your band mates were just f@€King with you in a joking sort of way, or..........
B: see the first paragraph of my reply.
My favorite example of crazy spellings. There's a ton of gags in Satie like this. I can't recall the title of the one that ends w/a C+ scale that's written with every wacky enharmonic imaginable, but it was the 1st thing that came to mind in this thread.
As for the E# vs F thing - it has a lot to do with reading as well as harmony. If you write F natural as the leading tone to F#, it becomes a real PITA to read.
- GT
ugg, drunken posting, my bad.
E# and B# are best avoided for clarity's sake - it's better to write Bb chords than A#, Db than C#..
BUT as any good theory teacher will tell you enharmonic notes are not always exactly the same pitch!
If this guitarist was referring to note bending, this E# is totally legit - it can't be pinpointed in western music, but it is a very slightly brighter E.
Same with the rest of them - a sharp pulls toward the next higher note, a flat comes down.
Of course, said guitarist knew he was being a bit obtuse, acting as if E#'s and microtonal bending is common.
It's easy to forget our well tempered bass clavier is not a perfect solution.
it's in key F# also ... if that's the key ... he should also say it's B # - not C ... or C Natural ... because in the F# scale , the C would be C# ...
