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Electric Cigarettes

#21
honestjohnny said:
Well, I did some research (I'm a clinical nurse specialist--like a nurse practitioner, but in a hospital). I found that yes, the smoker will still get carcinogens, propylene glycol to be exact. It's the active ingredient in anti-freeze!! However, most everything has been focused on the danger to the smoker, himself. No one, that I could find, has looked at how these things will affect the people around the smoker! Second-hand smoke is the main reason that many people object to smoking. If you choose to kill YOURSELF, fine. If you're killing ME by proxy, not cool! Your rights end where mine begin and vice versa. The thing is, when anyone uses an inhaler (which is what these are) they still exhale a small amount of the inhalate. There's even a picture of a guy blowing a puff of vapor in an ad. So you get a room full of people smoking, like in a bar in the old days, and they're all blowing off this vapor. The questions that need to be asked are does the person blow off the carcinogen and how much? I'm all for a fresh breath, whiter teeth, the lack of smell and all the other nasty things that trad cigs do, plus I enjoy people having a good time. I think private citizens have the right to do whatever they want--TO THEMSELVES NOT TO OTHERS. So where does that leave us? Who knows? Make sure you don't blow "vapor" into other people's faces.
Click to expand...


Propylene Glycol is NOT a carcinogen. See MSDS below:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MSDS Number: P6928 * * * * * Effective Date: 07/09/08 * * * * * Supercedes: 05/19/08
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PROPYLENE GLYCOL

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Product Identification
Synonyms: 1,2-propanediol; 1,2-dihdroxypropane; methyl glycol; methylethylene glycol
CAS No.: 57-55-6
Molecular Weight: 76.09
Chemical Formula: CH3CHOHCH2OH
Product Codes:
J.T. Baker: 9402, 9403, U510
Mallinckrodt: 1925, 6263

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. Composition/Information on Ingredients


Ingredient CAS No Percent Hazardous
--------------------------------------- ------------ ------------ ---------

Propylene Glycol 57-55-6 99 - 100% Yes



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3. Hazards Identification
Emergency Overview
--------------------------
CAUTION! MAY CAUSE IRRITATION TO SKIN AND EYES.

SAF-T-DATA(tm) Ratings (Provided here for your convenience)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Health Rating: 2 - Moderate (Life)
Flammability Rating: 1 - Slight
Reactivity Rating: 1 - Slight
Contact Rating: 1 - Slight
Lab Protective Equip: GOGGLES; LAB COAT; VENT HOOD; PROPER GLOVES
Storage Color Code: Green (General Storage)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Potential Health Effects
----------------------------------

Inhalation:
No adverse health effects via inhalation.
Ingestion:
Relatively non-toxic. Ingestion of sizable amount (over 100ml) may cause some gastrointestinal upset and temporary central nervous system depression. Effects appear more severe in individuals with kidney problems.
Skin Contact:
Mild irritant and defatting agent, especially on prolonged contact.
Eye Contact:
May cause transitory stinging and tearing.
Chronic Exposure:
Lactic acidosis, stupor and seizures have been reported following chronic ingestion.
Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions:
Kidney disorders.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4. First Aid Measures
Inhalation:
Remove to fresh air. Not expected to require first aid measures.
Ingestion:
Not expected to require first aid measures. Give several glasses of water to drink to dilute. If large amounts were swallowed, get medical advice.
Skin Contact:
Remove any contaminated clothing. Wash skin with soap and water for at least 15 minutes. Get medical attention if irritation develops or persists.
Eye Contact:
In case of contact, immediately flush eyes with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes, lifting upper and lower eyelids occasionally. Call a physician if irritation persists.

Note to Physician:
In case of ingestion, monitor for acidosis and central nervous system changes. Exposed persons with previous kidney dysfunction may require special treatment.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5. Fire Fighting Measures
Fire:
Flash point: 99C (210F) CC
Autoignition temperature: 371C (700F)
Flammable limits in air % by volume:
lel: 2.6; uel: 12.5
Material can support combustion.
Explosion:
Containers may explode in heat or fire.
Fire Extinguishing Media:
Dry chemical, foam, water or carbon dioxide.
Special Information:
In the event of a fire, wear full protective clothing and NIOSH-approved self-contained breathing apparatus with full facepiece operated in the pressure demand or other positive pressure mode. Move exposed containers from fire area, if it can be done without risk. Use water to keep fire-exposed containers cool.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

6. Accidental Release Measures
Ventilate area of leak or spill. Remove all sources of ignition. Wear appropriate personal protective equipment as specified in Section 8. Isolate hazard area. Keep unnecessary and unprotected personnel from entering. Contain and recover liquid when possible. Use non-sparking tools and equipment. Collect liquid in an appropriate container or absorb with an inert material (e. g., vermiculite, dry sand, earth), and place in a chemical waste container. Do not use combustible materials, such as saw dust. Do not flush to sewer!




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7. Handling and Storage
Protect container from physical damage. Store in a cool, dry, ventilated area away from sources of heat, moisture, and incompatible substances. Containers of this material may be hazardous when empty since they retain product residues (vapors, liquid); observe all warnings and precautions listed for the product.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

8. Exposure Controls/Personal Protection
Airborne Exposure Limits:
AIHA Workplace Environmental Exposure Level (WEEL): TWA = 10mg/m3.
Ventilation System:
A system of local and/or general exhaust is recommended to keep employee exposures below the Airborne Exposure Limits. Local exhaust ventilation is generally preferred because it can control the emissions of the contaminant at its source, preventing dispersion of it into the general work area. Please refer to the ACGIH document, Industrial Ventilation, A Manual of Recommended Practices, most recent edition, for details.
Personal Respirators (NIOSH Approved):
If the exposure limit is exceeded, a half-face respirator with an organic vapor cartridge and particulate filter (NIOSH type P95 or R95 filter) may be worn for up to ten times the exposure limit or the maximum use concentration specified by the appropriate regulatory agency or respirator supplier, whichever is lowest. A full-face piece respirator with an organic vapor cartridge and particulate filter (NIOSH P100 or R100 filter) may be worn up to 50 times the exposure limit, or the maximum use concentration specified by the appropriate regulatory agency or respirator supplier, whichever is lowest. Please note that N series filters are not recommended for this material. For emergencies or instances where the exposure levels are not known, use a full-face piece positive-pressure, air-supplied respirator. WARNING: Air-purifying respirators do not protect workers in oxygen-deficient atmospheres.
Skin Protection:
Wear protective gloves and clean body-covering clothing.
Eye Protection:
Use chemical safety goggles. Maintain eye wash fountain and quick-drench facilities in work area.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

9. Physical and Chemical Properties
Appearance:
Clear oily liquid.
Odor:
Odorless.
Solubility:
Miscible in water.
Specific Gravity:
1.0361 @ 20C/4C
pH:
No information found.
% Volatiles by volume @ 21C (70F):
No information found.
Boiling Point:
188.2C (370F)
Melting Point:
-59C (-74F)
Vapor Density (Air=1):
2.6
Vapor Pressure (mm Hg):
0.129 @ 25C (77F)
Evaporation Rate (BuAc=1):
0.01


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10. Stability and Reactivity
Stability:
Stable under ordinary conditions of use and storage.
Hazardous Decomposition Products:
Carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide may form when heated to decomposition. Aldehydes or lactic, pyruvic or acetic acids may also be formed.
Hazardous Polymerization:
Will not occur.
Incompatibilities:
Strong oxidizing agents.
Conditions to Avoid:
Heat, flames, ignition sources and incompatibles.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

11. Toxicological Information

Oral rat LD50: 20g/kg. Skin rabbit LD50: 20.8g/kg.
Irritation: Eye rabbit/Draize, 500 mg/24H mild.
Investigated as a mutagen and reproductive effector.

--------\Cancer Lists\------------------------------------------------------
---NTP Carcinogen---
Ingredient Known Anticipated IARC Category
------------------------------------ ----- ----------- -------------
Propylene Glycol (57-55-6) No No None

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12. Ecological Information
Environmental Fate:
When released into the soil, this material is expected to readily biodegrade. When released into the soil, this material is expected to leach into groundwater. When released into water, this material is expected to readily biodegrade. When released into the air, this material is expected to be readily degraded by reaction with photochemically produced hydroxyl radicals. When released into the air, this material is expected to have a half-life between 1 and 10 days.
Environmental Toxicity:
No information found.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

13. Disposal Considerations
Whatever cannot be saved for recovery or recycling should be managed in an appropriate and approved waste disposal facility. Processing, use or contamination of this product may change the waste management options. State and local disposal regulations may differ from federal disposal regulations. Dispose of container and unused contents in accordance with federal, state and local requirements.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

14. Transport Information
Not regulated.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

15. Regulatory Information
--------\Chemical Inventory Status - Part 1\---------------------------------
Ingredient TSCA EC Japan Australia
----------------------------------------------- ---- --- ----- ---------
Propylene Glycol (57-55-6) Yes Yes Yes Yes

--------\Chemical Inventory Status - Part 2\---------------------------------
--Canada--
Ingredient Korea DSL NDSL Phil.
----------------------------------------------- ----- --- ---- -----
Propylene Glycol (57-55-6) Yes Yes No Yes

--------\Federal, State & International Regulations - Part 1\----------------
-SARA 302- ------SARA 313------
Ingredient RQ TPQ List Chemical Catg.
----------------------------------------- --- ----- ---- --------------
Propylene Glycol (57-55-6) No No No No

--------\Federal, State & International Regulations - Part 2\----------------
-RCRA- -TSCA-
Ingredient CERCLA 261.33 8(d)
----------------------------------------- ------ ------ ------
Propylene Glycol (57-55-6) No No No


Chemical Weapons Convention: No TSCA 12(b): No CDTA: No
SARA 311/312: Acute: Yes Chronic: No Fire: No Pressure: No
Reactivity: No (Pure / Liquid)



Australian Hazchem Code: None allocated.
Poison Schedule: None allocated.
WHMIS:
This MSDS has been prepared according to the hazard criteria of the Controlled Products Regulations (CPR) and the MSDS contains all of the information required by the CPR.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

16. Other Information
NFPA Ratings: Health: 0 Flammability: 1 Reactivity: 0
Label Hazard Warning:
CAUTION! MAY CAUSE IRRITATION TO SKIN AND EYES.
Label Precautions:
Avoid contact with eyes, skin and clothing.
Wash thoroughly after handling.
Label First Aid:
In case of contact, immediately flush skin or eyes with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes. Call a physician if irritation develops or persists.
Product Use:
Laboratory Reagent.
Revision Information:
MSDS Section(s) changed since last revision of document include: 8.
Disclaimer:
************************************************************************************************
Mallinckrodt Baker, Inc. provides the information contained herein in good faith but makes no representation as to its comprehensiveness or accuracy. This document is intended only as a guide to the appropriate precautionary handling of the material by a properly trained person using this product. Individuals receiving the information must exercise their independent judgment in determining its appropriateness for a particular purpose. MALLINCKRODT BAKER, INC. MAKES NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE WITH RESPECT TO THE INFORMATION SET FORTH HEREIN OR THE PRODUCT TO WHICH THE INFORMATION REFERS. ACCORDINGLY, MALLINCKRODT BAKER, INC. WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR DAMAGES RESULTING FROM USE OF OR RELIANCE UPON THIS INFORMATION.
************************************************************************************************
Prepared by: Environmental Health & Safety
Phone Number: (314) 654-1600 (U.S.A.)
 
#22
And Hawaii gets the award for the longest post ever! Even if it only took a simple copy and paste.
A few of my friends use them when we are on campus because here in Vegas your technically not allowed to have tobacco on school grounds. Off football season they use cigs, and stop for a few months before and start on chew. Nasty stuff.
They use it, the electronic cigarettes, in the locker rooms while we are changing and from what I can tell (I stand literally next to them... our lockers are next to each other) I can't smell anything, but that my be because the stench of the locker room might be overtaking it. To vapor coming out, very little if any at all, and they say that their lung capacity is back to what it is when they chew, but they aren't chewing they are using the electronic cigarettes.

If for some reason it starts to smell or the vapor gets heavy (which it hasn't) I would tell them to stop, but that problem has not yet arise.
 
#23
voodoobassist said:
Being a longtime, and heavy smoker, I'll chime in. I've got the E-cigs also. They do come in handy as mentioned in the OP's original post. I have even been able to "smoke them" at my work in the break room. To answer the post right above me here, they DO satisfy,...but,... I still find myself craving a "real' cigarette. Perhaps that's because of how heavy a smoker I have been and the long number of years I have had the habit.

As far as docs go, I did consult my MD and according to him, I am still getting carcinogens, although I am no longer getting the tar as you would from a regular cig. They do seem to be a step in the right direction, but bottom line is, nicotiene constricts your blood vessels and increases your heart rate, raising your blood pressure level. At the ripe young age of 55, I'm finally realizing that smoking, whether regular cigs or e-cig vapor, really has to stop. I want to be able to play for a loooooooong time to come. Wish me luck.
Click to expand...



Good luck man...I truly hope things work out for you!!
 
#24
I just had a disappointing experience with an e-cigarette. My girlfriend got me the EAZE Magnum by E-Puffer. First off, it took 3 1/2 weeks to arrive when they promised 4-7 days, the replacement nicotine cartridges SUCKED, and then one of the batteries that came with the kit stopped working after 2 days. They have a 30 day money back guarantee but they're already saying they will at least keep the money for the cartridges we used and I'm just waiting for them to say that I broke the faulty battery they sent.

Once the money is refunded I'll be looking into another brand for sure. In theory, it's a great idea. And don't buy into the study the FDA released on them. Their study was so vague and full of holes... they're totally in bed with the tobacco companies on this one.
 
#26
Ok so I got home from work around 4PM. It's now almost 10. I have yet to smoke tobacco. The esmoke is doing a pretty good job of keeping my cravings down. The way I decided to go about smoking this thing (if you can even call it that), is to just take a drag here and there rather than try to smoke it like a real cigarette, where you only have a limited time to smoke it and after its near the filter it's done. Really you can't look at the blu's as the same thing. It's working really well thus far, however it is just my first night. I haven't had any real tobacco yet since getting home from work. Tomorrow is the work test. That should prove useful for our data =)

Scott

BTW Thanks Islander, as far as I know there is no proof nicotine is a carcinogen and there isn't really anything else in these things that could be. Believe the rumors or believe the scientist that is the Hawaii Islander.
 
#27
I'm going to smoke one more real tobacco cigarette before bed just to see how it feels and affects my body before I go to bed. I haven't smoked a real one in hours and I just want to see the difference. I'm quite certain I'll feel the difference and shall report back how it is.

Scott
 
#32
For the first 24 hours this is my report, I suppose. I've only smoked the one tobacco cigarette I mentioned. I definately feel that my body is lacking something, probably all the additives. It's not the nicotine craving, it's something else. I figure it'll subside in a few days. I woke up today and had my e-smokes with my coffee, drove to work and smoked at the desk all day. I did go outside a few times just to get out of work for a few minutes, but it wasn't because I was forced to. I find it sort of lacking in my day now that I don't have an excuse to leave for five minutes, but I suppose I'll get used to it. It's been past 24 hours now, still on the first cartridge. I think this will be a success and Blu will keep my business for some time to come. These are all my initial feelings, it worked for me all day.

To answer questions:
Yes you do sorta feel something in your throat/lungs, but it's different. It's not burny or anything, if you know what I mean. There's definitely a sensation.

I haven't gotten to the tobacco flavor yet. I dislike menthol so I figured I'd go through those first and get rid of them so they don't go to waste. The menthol ones are surprisingly good. They're not all crappy on your throat/sinuses like real menthol cigarettes. It's like just tasting mint. I'll be sure to go through each flavor as I use them and tell you what I think. So +1 to Blu for making a menthol flavor that I like, however it doesn't do justice to real menthol cigarettes.

Scott
 
#33
So I figured I'd wait a few days, and since I had a family reunion out of town this weekend it would be a good chance to test the pack as a charger aspect of the system.
As previously stated I haven't really had the need to use tobacco smokes at all, that is till it downpoured and I was outside. I was soaked so I preferred not to use the e-smokes and risk damaging them in weather. Anyway aside from that one smoke the rest of the weekend was tobacco free, and I didn't feel the need for anything other than the e-cig.
The pack as a charger worked great. I still haven't recharged the pack since Saturday early morning and used it today at work to charge up a battery that died on me today at work. I will be charging it tonight even though I'm sure it has more juice left in it. Better safe than sorry. Blu states your battery should last you 2 cartridges and I'm going to go ahead and call bull on that. It usually lasts me 1 or just over 1. Then again it does sit in my pocket a fair share, so maybe they mean that for continuous use throughout a day for someone who smokes more heavily. All in all the system works fine.
Also I've noticed a few things. For one I'm consuming less nicotine than I would with a tobacco cigarette. This is for one of two reasons: either there's more nicotine per drag with this system (even though I'm comparing lights to lights), or I'm apprehensive about taking in too much nicotine seeing as there's no real end of a cartridge in as short a time as a tobacco cigarette. I don't want to sit there and smoke away on it. You can overdose on nicotine and that's something I'm not interested in doing. Either of those reasons, however, are possibilities.
This has been a positive experience for me, I now notice the smell of real smoke. When I do smoke a tobacco cigarette I feel the difference (and it's noticeable!). I really am surprised more people haven't tried this yet.
From now on I'll be smoking one tobacco cigarette a day till this pack of Camels sitting on my desk since last Wednesday is gone. I don't want to waste it really, as it's expensive. After that it's all e-smokes. Also I still haven't run out of the five menthol cartridges to try other flavors, but I do have one attached to my other battery right now. As soon as this menthol one kicks the bucket I'll be able to comment on another flavor.
Back in a few days or a week with more for those who are still interested.

Scott
 
#36
Hawaii Islander said:
Propylene Glycol is NOT a carcinogen.
Click to expand...

That's good because it's in salad dressing.

Inhalation:
No adverse health effects via inhalation.
Click to expand...

Cool, but...

Airborne Exposure Limits:
AIHA Workplace Environmental Exposure Level (WEEL): TWA = 10mg/m3.
Ventilation System:
A system of local and/or general exhaust is recommended to keep employee exposures below the Airborne Exposure Limits. Local exhaust ventilation is generally preferred because it can control the emissions of the contaminant at its source, preventing dispersion of it into the general work area. Please refer to the ACGIH document, Industrial Ventilation, A Manual of Recommended Practices, most recent edition, for details.
Personal Respirators (NIOSH Approved):
If the exposure limit is exceeded, a half-face respirator with an organic vapor cartridge and particulate filter (NIOSH type P95 or R95 filter) may be worn for up to ten times the exposure limit or the maximum use concentration specified by the appropriate regulatory agency or respirator supplier, whichever is lowest. A full-face piece respirator with an organic vapor cartridge and particulate filter (NIOSH P100 or R100 filter) may be worn up to 50 times the exposure limit, or the maximum use concentration specified by the appropriate regulatory agency or respirator supplier, whichever is lowest. Please note that N series filters are not recommended for this material. For emergencies or instances where the exposure levels are not known, use a full-face piece positive-pressure, air-supplied respirator. WARNING: Air-purifying respirators do not protect workers in oxygen-deficient atmospheres.
Click to expand...

So, it's safe to breathe, but don't breathe it? :confused:
 
#37
honestjohnny said:
Well, I did some research (I'm a clinical nurse specialist--like a nurse practitioner, but in a hospital). I found that yes, the smoker will still get carcinogens, propylene glycol to be exact. It's the active ingredient in anti-freeze!!
Click to expand...

There are two kinds of anti-freeze, containing ethylene glycol and propylene glycol, respectively. Ethylene glycol is toxic. IIRC propylene glycol used to be in salad dressing, though the bottle in my fridge doesn't have any.

http://www.dow.com/productsafety/finder/prog.htm
 
#38
As for the lifetime nonsmoker it's no joke. You won't have any problems with it as far as I can see. I live in a house with one tobacco smoker, and two non smokers, then myself. The nonsmokers don't even know if or when I'm smoking my e-cigs. That is to say, "smoking", as there's no smoke or smell with them.
As far as price per real smokes like the Camel Lights I used to smoke it's really funny. I used to smoke almost a pack a day. Sometimes 15 smokes a day, sometimes 20. That's all dependant on the stress levels or other random things that happen in my days. In the e-smokes, every cartridge is roughly equal to 15 tobacco cigarettes. Those are Blu's numbers. As I've said before their numbers tend to be over the top, however in this case I smoke a lot less off the cartridge than I do off a pack of smokes. Refer to the previous post of me wondering about concentration or me being paranoid about ODing on nicotine, which is very very potent.
The cost is really really lower. It's roughly $1.25us for a pack of cigarettes, and even that's high, though I rounded up. Plus you're not getting the jet fuel, formaldehyde, etc that is in EVERY CIGARETTE.
This is coming from a smoker of over ten years. I don't regret one decision I've made in my life, because that's what makes it my life. When you weigh decisions you base them off previous ones you've made. When I started smoking it wasn't a good one, now that I'm on to these it's better. It's NOT PERFECT, It's not the best. It's just better. Blu says right out this will not help you quit. It may or may not. It all depends on the user. At least I'm not getting all the crap in a normal cigarette that the other smokers get. Furthermore, as the Islander pointed out there has been no scientific study that says nicotine causes cancer. I'm not a scientist so I won't say that it doesn't either. But even if it does, you're getting rid of so much that does. I myself am trying. I'm not trying to quit. I'm not trying to tell other smokers to get this thing, I'm not trying to preach! I just want others to be aware there's an option for you. If you don't want it that's fine, do what you want. I'm not Rev. Jesse Jackson. Just live your life and be happy with it. I won't tell you what to do or not. I will sit here and try to offer an alternative which people will make snide comments about. That's ok, just so long as we all know what we're talking about and people are ready to look at it as it is.
Mostly this entire thread is for smokers. That's not to say nonsmokers aren't welcome to their opinions and input here, as far as it is relevant to this thread and the posts within. Just don't be idiot busybodys and come in here to tell us what we should and shouldn't do. That's all I ask.

Scott
 
#39
fdeck said:
That's good because it's in salad dressing.



Cool, but...



So, it's safe to breathe, but don't breathe it? :confused:
Click to expand...


They are talking about long term "worker exposure" in a manufacturing environment, not household. Generally, long term exposure to inhaling oily vapors is not a good thing for the respiratory system. The concentrations of ingested propylene glycol considered hazardous are quite high. As with any substance "the dose makes the poison" holds true. Ingesting or breathing too high a concentration of anything can be lethal. Compounds that are generally considered safe usually require extreme doses over a short period of exposure to be harmful or fatal.

The original post concerning propylene glycol was probably an error. The poster probably meant ethylene glycol (antifreeze) which is also not a carcinogen. It is toxic at high enough doses though. Amounts detected in the e-cigarettes were probably in the order of parts per billion or parts per trillion, if detected via gas chromatography.
 
#40
Hawaii Islander said:
They are talking about long term "worker exposure" in a manufacturing environment, not household. Generally, long term exposure to inhaling oily vapors is not a good thing for the respiratory system. The concentrations of ingested propylene glycol considered hazardous are quite high. As with any substance "the dose makes the poison" holds true. Ingesting or breathing too high a concentration of anything can be lethal. Compounds that are generally considered safe usually require extreme doses over a short period of exposure to be harmful or fatal.

The original post concerning propylene glycol was probably an error. The poster probably meant ethylene glycol (antifreeze) which is also not a carcinogen. It is toxic at high enough doses though. Amounts detected in the e-cigarettes were probably in the order of parts per billion or parts per trillion, if detected via gas chromatography.
Click to expand...

Understood. I was just amused by the juxtaposition of those statements.
 

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