Eminence Kappalite 3015

[billfitzmaurice]

I see you say this a lot, but I wonder where you are finding a driver that costs 67 dollars

Sure you could go with a Beta, but it's got an upper bass peak and gets boomy in a small box, and has a much different midrange profile. Really not the same sound at all until you do a lot of eq'ing.

If all I had was 60 watts I'd be running a pair of Delta 15s in a well matched cab. Using EQ to get a good tone isn't rocket science, and I'm certainly not afraid to set a knob at anything but 12:00. And a pair of Deltas weigh in at 8 pounds more than a pair of 3015.

 

[rpsands]

If all I had was 60 watts I'd be running a pair of Delta 15s in a well matched cab. Using EQ to get a good tone isn't rocket science, and I'm certainly not afraid to set a knob at anything but 12:00. And a pair of Deltas weigh in at 8 pounds more than a pair of 3015.

I agree with your stance on EQ, but it's important to keep in mind that the tone profile of a cabinet is important to a lot of people. The Delta doesn't play well in as small a box either.

Me, I'd use BFM jacks if I was using a low wattage tube head

 

[CurtWash2]

I'd use a mid with any 15, or even any 12 for that matter. No matter how good the mids may sound directly in front of the cab no 12 or 15 can produce decent mids off-axis. You probably don't notice it, since you likely stand directly in front of your cab most of the time. The audience doesn't have that ability.
From an engineering and economic standpoint a 2x3015 makes no sense. A single 3015LF will produce nearly as much low end as a pair of 3015, while a 3015LF plus a midrange driver will have far superior midrange extension and dispersion than a 2x3015, and will do so in a smaller cab at a lower cost.

Heres my PA rig:
I have 2 top cabinets that are loaded with one 3015 and one 3015LF each. I used jbl SR4732 crossovers with the JBL 2385 Horn and 2450/2447 driver. I dont think these can be beat unless you have the new jbl neo drivers. I am hobbyist only and short of their versatec I dont know what else I would want. I used the slot tweeter for the supertweets capability of the crossover. I used a few programs and some input from eminence to setup the cabinets and the ports. Thank God for the Eminence Neos now the cabinets can be lifted. These cabinets will hurt you with the SPLs and clarity however. They are awesome. Thanks JBL and Eminence. I was not worried too much about total flat response (The crossovers are killer though) because I use a speaker management system and these are top cabinets. I used the one LF because for small venues I have added a switch where I can block some of the bass to the 3015 and use the cabinets full range. Compared them to some cabs in a local music store where I bought the 3015s and a customer who had come in to buy some cabinets retailing for about 2 grand a piece wanted my cabinets instead. Honestly. The JBL horn and 3015 seems hard to beat! The 3015LF is just extra but I like it. It adds some more punch.

I have four jbl SR4718 subs as well. But for a more portable system, I have two Peavey SC15 cabinets which are JBL 30 cabinet copies. I need a 15 inch driver with high power handling and good low fs and good tight Qes . The jbl E-140 has an EBP of 168 Qes of .19 but not much xmax and power handling but thats what JBL used in theirs I'm told. The EV evx155 is right there also as far as specs but handles a bit more power. I want to go as low as possible even below cabinet unloading. I need a driver that will go as low as possible with punch . I dont know that much but I don't care if its free air resonance I dont want it to blow within reason. What driver will I use that has the deepest bass at least 2KHz on top and will last the longest? I use crown K2 power amps which have a dampening factor of 3000 to 1. Should I use B & C? RCF? Beyma 15G40? Sometimes I will run The scoops in the middle of the stack, one 4718 to each side and also the double 15s on the top. Note- I tried some eminence delta pro 15s in these with almost 102 db they were spine tingling and clear response. I blew one however doing deep bass tests. Not enough xmax but somehow a SUPER E-140 seems to come to mind as what I need. But maybe its the EV. What do you recommend? Throwing those extra mids out there with the JBL Horn top cabinets sounds really good but like I said, the Deltra pros blew. I need something stronger in the low end.

For this type of cabinet do I need small vas or big vas. The e-140 Vas =10.5. What about the B & C PS76? Beyma? Eminence?

 

[JimmyM]

I agree with your stance on EQ, but it's important to keep in mind that the tone profile of a cabinet is important to a lot of people. The Delta doesn't play well in as small a box either.

plays fine in my b-15 cabs. it actually plays better in my smaller double baffle b-15 cabs than in the larger thiele cab i used to have.

 

[Destructobot]

I wonder how it would change my EV B215m to put some 3015's in it. I'd save 24lbs over the EVs, for starters.

Heck, the cab already has a 6" midrange w/crossover. I could put 3015LF's in it.

 

[rpsands]

plays fine in my b-15 cabs. it actually plays better in my smaller double baffle b-15 cabs than in the larger thiele cab i used to have.

Sorry, I was using a bit of idiom there -- The Delta gets boomy down low, so if someone is out for a flat smooth bottom, they aren't going to get it with a delta in a 2.5-3cf box like they are with a 3015.

By "doesn't play as well" I mean "gets boomy in the upper bass."

Lots of people like that sound but lots don't.

 

[rpsands]

I wonder how it would change my EV B215m to put some 3015's in it. I'd save 24lbs over the EVs, for starters.

Heck, the cab already has a 6" midrange w/crossover. I could put 3015LF's in it.

I can't say for certain but it is very unlikely the 6" midrange in that box is loud enough to keep pace with two 3015LFs. That's pushing the bounds of what you can do with a modern 6" mid (the 6nd410 barely does it and will blow up long before the pair of 3015LFs do).

 

[JimmyM]

Sorry, I was using a bit of idiom there -- The Delta gets boomy down low, so if someone is out for a flat smooth bottom, they aren't going to get it with a delta in a 2.5-3cf box like they are with a 3015.

By "doesn't play as well" I mean "gets boomy in the upper bass."

Lots of people like that sound but lots don't.

losers.

 

[rpsands]

losers.

I turn up the 125hz myself,

 

[CurtWash2]

Oops I goofed. Maybe I rambled on. Just trying to give some background info.

What I meant to ask in my previous post was, Since I have both the 3015s and the 3015 LFs in my top cabinets, I can try them for size in my bottom cabinets but I am afraid that I might blow them, and have also even blown Delta pro 15s in My Peavey SC 15 bottoms (JBL 30 cabinet copies). Can someone tell me what would be some of the strongest 15 inch speakers I could use? The RCF L15 S801 has 700 Watts AES, 1400 watts program and 7000 Watts peak. The EBP is 145.6 and it is 99.5 dB. The EV evx155 seems punchy for a 600 watt woofer. IT seems that some of the RCF woofers are strong enough that it would be pretty tough to blow them even when the horn scoop cabinet unloads.

I have a couple questions. About what Vas spec should I be looking for?, What would be the ideal Fs or should I be looking for as low as possible Fs and tight control Qes? I guess I understand that I need a lot of Xmax and a good price value would be good also.

Someone please give me some suggestions as to why they think certain drivers would be best theoretically and from practical experience.

In my above post I gave several scenarios how I use the tops which I am very satisfied with and the subs about which I am trying to match these drivers for. I might also use the two Sub scoop cabinets at the Center of FOH and run them off a bridged amp for that thick low bass (No I don't think they are midbass after hearing what they sounded like with the deltas in them. They were loud and threw far good kick drum sound and then the 5 string low b blew them). I can keep the low B attenuated some through my shelf filter but I want as much of it as possible. When it comes through I want the speaker to take it! Either way I use them, I want to be a able to punish them without blowing the drivers very easy. After all every note wont be Moog bass and the Low B they should get some time to cool down some.

I dont use my PA every week-Only for the midsize stuff. I dont even use any of my equipment every week. What I have works great in the top cabinets and I also have 4 18 inch jbl subs BUT I need some deep and very strong drivers for the scoop cabinets. Is anyone running 3015s or 3015LFs in 30 cabinets? What about the regular Kappa Pro LFa? Im sort of leaning towards the B & C PS76 but Im not sure about the Vas?

Any help is appreciated.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Heres my PA rig:
I have 2 top cabinets that are loaded with one 3015 and one 3015LF each.
I have four jbl SR4718 subs as well.

Dedicated tops should not be loaded with fifteens, as fifteens are only of benefit when used below 100Hz, and that's where your subs are working. Fifteen loaded tops have poor midrange response and dispersion and are twice the size necessary to work in the over 100Hz bandwidth. Fifteen loaded tops dominate the low end of the PA market because low end buyers are not well informed, want fifteens because they think bigger is better, and manufacturers build what sells. You find very few fifteens in high end PA tops, as buyers in the $5k and up per cab price range tend to be very well informed.

 

[LoveThatBass]

I replaced an Eminence Kappa Pro LFA (15") in my Avatar cab with a KappaLite LF Eminence Neo and love the tone. Lows are encredible mids good. The high mids and highs are taken care of with a 6.5" Sound Design speaker and crossover. Can't say enough good about them.

 

[parapentep70]

Hi all,

I have been reading Talkbass every now and then for a couple of years, but I registered today and this is my 1st post.

I have a decent gear but I wanted to improve it. A case of GAS, and now is the time for it.

I want my gear to be modular and at least reasonably portable. My combo (Marshall MB4410) is relatively small, but it weights 51 Kg. The result: I never take it to the attic where I can play at home and sometimes I end up connecting the bass to my little PA intended for voice for the few rehearsals I do with my band.

I am thinking of a TC electronic RH750 (I can get it brand new at a good price with footswitch), and I thought the vertical arrangment of 2x10 + 2x12 speakers could be OK.

However I saw that this arrangement (as almost everything in life) has advantages and disadvantages. I considereed other options, but in general 2x10's tend to be "thin" (well, not the Eden, but this is expensive and heavy), most 2x12's are not good for vertical stacking (or even 8 ohms) and 4x10's are not very modular (but some are really light, like Schroeder or Golight, I could get those at decent prices).

So the more I investigated, the more convinced I was to build my own stuff.

My current idea is completely different: It is something between Alex's Barefaced and Greenboy's Fearful. Two 1x15 medium size (80...100 Litres each), relatively light (some 15...20 Kg is fantastic compared to what I have today), to be stacked vertically.

For the 15's I considered that these 3 models can beat anything I can get in Europe at a decent price (and sometimes at any price):

-Beyma 15P80ND
-Kappalite 3015
-Kappalite 3015 LF

For high frequencies I think I understand the beaming problems of the 15's, so I can see the advantages of a good mid-range like the ones in fEarFull designs, but I am considering a slightly different approach: Use a medium sized constant dispersion horn that can go "relatively" low in frequency.

My preference is to use the Beyma CD10Nd with the appropriate horn. I plan to attenuate some 7dBs the signal reaching the horn. By doing so, a single horn in just ONE of the cabs can meet all this:

-I can reach an SPL around 129 dB/m in the range covered by the horn. This is just 1...3 dB lower than max. SPL provided by the 2 stacked 15's at 700 watts.

-With this padding I can put the full power from the amp at high frequencies without damaging the horn. I would be using the horn under their specs.

-The horn is OK to go as low as 1200 Hz with full power rating, even with a 12dB/Oct crossover.

-I can limit the dispersion problems above the Xover freq. by having a single horn (instead of 2 6's used in a similar configuration of Fearfulls).

-Dispersion under the Xover frequency is not that bad for 2 15's aligned vertically, specially if I can cross over at 1200 Hz.

Now for the weakness, questions, etc.


1) The horn should survive max power from the amp at any frequency, but I know I will never reach 129 dB playing the bass. The horn Freq. response starts at 700 Hz, but the horn and the "recommended Xover freq" is 1200 Hz. Then... Could I Xover the horn at these recommended 1200Hz at the relatively low expected power from a bass? And in general, for any signal that could push more power closer to the horn limits? I heard something about distortion when horns are used too low, and I have no idea if the "recommended Xover freq" in horns is conservative or if it ignores some important effect that I don't know.

2) At my power levels, cab size and Xover I cannot see a clear winner among the 3 woofers proposed:

-Kappalite 3015 is very good for the application, but depending on how I tune the cabs it could run a bit short of Xmax. Not much, but something. I play 5-string with regular tuning.

-Kappalite 3015 LF will never run short of Xmax at this moderate wattage. But sensitivity is lower. And upper freq. limit is 1500Hz, this is too close to the minimum recommended freq. for my horn. I have almost discard it.

-Beyma has intermediate sensitivity relatively high Xmax, and it could take a MUCH higher thermal power (800W!). My guess is that at 350W RMS compression losses will be considerably lower in Beyma compared to Eminences, so this will make up for the ~1dB sensitivity disadvantage to the non LF. I might update my rig by adding a power amplifier with DSP equalization and go to very high SPLs some day (Will I ever need it?).

However, in order to get the same F3 in WinISD, I have to tune cabs in a way that the response of the system seems less dampened, I am afraid the response of the Beyma might be "less tight" than responses from 3015, LF or not. In my experience designing electronic filters, less dampened in frequency always mean less dampened in the time domain, and I am afraid this will be "Boominess". Or a "less tight" sound. Any advice on this?

The resonance freq. in the Beyma is significantly lower than in the Kappalites, is this the origin of the problem in enclosures that are relatively small?

Another issue is that LF sensitivity is a tad lower than for the 3015 non-LF. This could mean my maximum SPL before "farting" (3015) or clipping (Beyma) would be more or less the same. Yes, the 3015 LF is the king... but the cost in slightly higher freqs is some 2 or 3 dB. Then I could reduce power in 3015 by these 2...3dB and get the same max SPL in all my practical range.

The Beyma weighs more for sure. Datasheet is incorrect, the driver cannot weight less than the magnetic assembly. The 12P80ND with the same magnets weights more. I estimate weight in some 6.2 or 6.3 Kg. I think this is too much magnet for only 350 W per loudspeaker. Could anybody confirm weight?

Cost is not a big issue to me, Beyma is a Spanish company and Emminences are imported, so the price difference is reduced to some 25...30%.

On the other hand in most american forums the 15P80ND seems to have a very good reputation, some experts say "it worths every penny of its high price". The materials, technology and build seem to be among the best, but I don't know if I want to pay the extra weight (that I can only estimate) for these small "possible" advantages over 3015's (that I barely can estimate).

Ah, I found small inconsistencies in the parameters for the Beyma, calculated efficiency from TS parameters is lower than declared. Any experience in the forum confirming efficiency (in % or in SPL/W/m)?

Finally, I don't plan to mix different woofers, I think that phasing problems could lead to not adding the 3dB in efficiency and a sound that is not very "tight".

Any recommendation for woofers based on "real world experience"?


3) The lower cab will not have a horn. This opens 2 options: Do I limit high frequency delivered to this cab or not?

If I do, I could kill some bad interference with the horn in the other cab about 1 meter higher. And I could stop some "harsh" response beaming towards someone in the audience, but I don't think this effect is really "that" bad.

I could always have the option to pad less the horn in the upper cabinet and equalize the amp to deliver less treeble, then the horn would be dominant (but then in the event of some feedback or something like this delivering full power to the horn, it might be destructive).

But the lower crossover will add losses in LF, and it prevents me from using the tweeterless cab (considerably lighter) as a standalone cab. Barefaced "compact" could have a questionable dispersion at 2 or 3 Khz, but customers are very happy with this full-range speaker, and I could be equally happy for small gigs or rehearsals.

If I use the lower woofer as full range the situation is obviously the opposite. And again the Beyma could be marginally better, it can be used up to 5 KHz.

Finally I am open to re-consider buying instead of DIY-ing, but I am afraid I cannot find anything similar to what I like at a reasonable price.

Any help about my questions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

 

[LoveThatBass]

Hi all,

-Beyma 15P80ND
-Kappalite 3015
-Kappalite 3015 LF

For high frequencies I think I understand the beaming problems of the 15's, so I can see the advantages of a good mid-range like the ones in fEarFull designs, but I am considering a slightly different approach: Use a medium sized constant dispersion horn that can go "relatively" low in frequency.

My preference is to use the Beyma CD10Nd with the appropriate horn. I plan to attenuate some 7dBs the signal reaching the horn. By doing so, a single horn in just ONE of the cabs can meet all this:

-I can reach an SPL around 129 dB/m in the range covered by the horn. This is just 1...3 dB lower than max. SPL provided by the 2 stacked 15's at 700 watts.

-With this padding I can put the full power from the amp at high frequencies without damaging the horn. I would be using the horn under their specs.

-The horn is OK to go as low as 1200 Hz with full power rating, even with a 12dB/Oct crossover.

-I can limit the dispersion problems above the Xover freq. by having a single horn (instead of 2 6's used in a similar configuration of Fearfulls).

-Dispersion under the Xover frequency is not that bad for 2 15's aligned vertically, specially if I can cross over at 1200 Hz.

Now for the weakness, questions, etc.


1) The horn should survive max power from the amp at any frequency, but I know I will never reach 129 dB playing the bass. The horn Freq. response starts at 700 Hz, but the horn and the "recommended Xover freq" is 1200 Hz. Then... Could I Xover the horn at these recommended 1200Hz at the relatively low expected power from a bass? And in general, for any signal that could push more power closer to the horn limits? I heard something about distortion when horns are used too low, and I have no idea if the "recommended Xover freq" in horns is conservative or if it ignores some important effect that I don't know.

2) At my power levels, cab size and Xover I cannot see a clear winner among the 3 woofers proposed:

-Kappalite 3015 is very good for the application, but depending on how I tune the cabs it could run a bit short of Xmax. Not much, but something. I play 5-string with regular tuning.

-Kappalite 3015 LF will never run short of Xmax at this moderate wattage. But sensitivity is lower. And upper freq. limit is 1500Hz, this is too close to the minimum recommended freq. for my horn. I have almost discard it.

-Beyma has intermediate sensitivity relatively high Xmax, and it could take a MUCH higher thermal power (800W!). My guess is that at 350W RMS compression losses will be considerably lower in Beyma compared to Eminences, so this will make up for the ~1dB sensitivity disadvantage to the non LF. I might update my rig by adding a power amplifier with DSP equalization and go to very high SPLs some day (Will I ever need it?).

However, in order to get the same F3 in WinISD, I have to tune cabs in a way that the response of the system seems less dampened, I am afraid the response of the Beyma might be "less tight" than responses from 3015, LF or not. In my experience designing electronic filters, less dampened in frequency always mean less dampened in the time domain, and I am afraid this will be "Boominess". Or a "less tight" sound. Any advice on this?

The resonance freq. in the Beyma is significantly lower than in the Kappalites, is this the origin of the problem in enclosures that are relatively small?

Another issue is that LF sensitivity is a tad lower than for the 3015 non-LF. This could mean my maximum SPL before "farting" (3015) or clipping (Beyma) would be more or less the same. Yes, the 3015 LF is the king... but the cost in slightly higher freqs is some 2 or 3 dB. Then I could reduce power in 3015 by these 2...3dB and get the same max SPL in all my practical range.

The Beyma weighs more for sure. Datasheet is incorrect, the driver cannot weight less than the magnetic assembly. The 12P80ND with the same magnets weights more. I estimate weight in some 6.2 or 6.3 Kg. I think this is too much magnet for only 350 W per loudspeaker. Could anybody confirm weight?

Cost is not a big issue to me, Beyma is a Spanish company and Emminences are imported, so the price difference is reduced to some 25...30%.

On the other hand in most american forums the 15P80ND seems to have a very good reputation, some experts say "it worths every penny of its high price". The materials, technology and build seem to be among the best, but I don't know if I want to pay the extra weight (that I can only estimate) for these small "possible" advantages over 3015's (that I barely can estimate).

Ah, I found small inconsistencies in the parameters for the Beyma, calculated efficiency from TS parameters is lower than declared. Any experience in the forum confirming efficiency (in % or in SPL/W/m)?

Finally, I don't plan to mix different woofers, I think that phasing problems could lead to not adding the 3dB in efficiency and a sound that is not very "tight".

Any recommendation for woofers based on "real world experience"?


3) The lower cab will not have a horn. This opens 2 options: Do I limit high frequency delivered to this cab or not?

If I do, I could kill some bad interference with the horn in the other cab about 1 meter higher. And I could stop some "harsh" response beaming towards someone in the audience, but I don't think this effect is really "that" bad.

I could always have the option to pad less the horn in the upper cabinet and equalize the amp to deliver less treeble, then the horn would be dominant (but then in the event of some feedback or something like this delivering full power to the horn, it might be destructive).

But the lower crossover will add losses in LF, and it prevents me from using the tweeterless cab (considerably lighter) as a standalone cab. Barefaced "compact" could have a questionable dispersion at 2 or 3 Khz, but customers are very happy with this full-range speaker, and I could be equally happy for small gigs or rehearsals.

If I use the lower woofer as full range the situation is obviously the opposite. And again the Beyma could be marginally better, it can be used up to 5 KHz.

Finally I am open to re-consider buying instead of DIY-ing, but I am afraid I cannot find anything similar to what I like at a reasonable price.

Any help about my questions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

I have the Kappalite LF 15" speaker. I ran it with eminence horns but found the sound of an 18 sound 6.5" mid range speaker and crossover at 800-900 hz sounded much more natural to my ears. I am letting the Kappalite LF run without a lowpass filter.

 

[parapentep70]

I have the Kappalite LF 15" speaker. I ran it with eminence horns but found the sound of an 18 sound 6.5" mid range speaker and crossover at 800-900 hz sounded much more natural to my ears. I am letting the Kappalite LF run without a lowpass filter.

Thanks!

Which horn? Most horns I've seen for bass cabinets can be used only above 3.5 or even 5 or 6 KHz. With these horns I am sure the sound could be really bad (lack of high mids). Horns capable of reaching 1.2 KHz are big and sometimes very expensive

The Beyma I am suggesting seems to be in a special sweet spot because it can go low in freq, very high in SPL (111 dB/W/m, 70 W AES, 140 W program power !!) at a limited cost / weight (2 Kg, some 100€ with horn included).

Crossing over at 800...900 Hz will sound better, but I clearly cannot get those high SPLs. I understand most users pad the mid-range in a 15/6 config (some 3dB?) but I am not sure this could be done in a 15/15/6 config I am proposing. And if you run full amp's power on high freqs, then the mid-range could be fried. Max SPL is some 124.5 dB against the 129 dB I can get from the horn.

I could go and add multiple mid-ranges (at the end this is the 151566 with 2 mids), but this would be worse in terms of dispersion. Then the solution in the 151566 design is to limit max freq. to the mids to a lower value... which requires a big horn for the highs. I am not fully convinced, and I think I read a comment from Greenboy suggesting they could move to a bigger horn for a 2 way 1515.

I also think that this simpler 2 way design has the cost of a highly priced bigger horn (Eminence does not have anything suitable), but there are a couple of Beyma horns that could do the trick

So if I could use the horn down to 1200 Hz (as recommended by manufacturer) without issues, I tend to think this solution could be a balanced, relatively simple solution.

Thanks!

 

[alexclaber]

That looks like a nice compression driver. Put it on a big horn and get the crossover right and you're away! Note you'll need to do something clever with EQ post distortion if you're after dirty tones and be wary of feedback... If you're going with neo magnets on both woofer and compression driver I wouldn't hang about on making your decisions!

 

[parapentep70]

That looks like a nice compression driver. Put it on a big horn and get the crossover right and you're away! Note you'll need to do something clever with EQ post distortion if you're after dirty tones and be wary of feedback... If you're going with neo magnets on both woofer and compression driver I wouldn't hang about on making your decisions!

Alex, Wow! Direct response from one of the real experts! Internet is a great thing!

My point about padding some 7 dB (or divide by 5) the compression driver is the following: When running my 700W power amplifier at full power on the combined 4 ohms cab, the single 8 ohms driver will receive just 70W RMS. The compression driver can take up to 140W for short periods. Then the horn should survive feedback or distortion... even if I connect a guitar and I deliver square waves to the cabinet! This could kill (and usually kills) many tweeters in bass cabs and stereos.

My point is that when playing bass (I don't use very dirty sound)
levels on the horn will be lower, so my guess is that the horn should be usable down to the recommended low frequency, 1200Hz.

I ask this because I know that there are issues pushing the LF driver to the limit (4000 or 5000Hz) because of beaming. Datasheets don't mention this. So I am not sure if I might be ignoring another physical limitation for compression drivers not included in datasheets.

At the end my options are the 1200 Hz crossover (too aggresive?), the 2000Hz crossover (looks too high) or build my own crossover (more time to find good air core inductors).

And yes, very nice driver. I have not seen anything else that can put a lot of acoustic pressure in the range 1200....2000Hz at a similar price, 1.4'' and 2'' horns are waaaay more expensive and heavy.

What do you think about the 15P80Nd versus Eminence models?

Thanks a lot for your direct help.

 

[LoveThatBass]

Thanks!

Which horn? Most horns I've seen for bass cabinets can be used only above 3.5 or even 5 or 6 KHz. With these horns I am sure the sound could be really bad (lack of high mids). Horns capable of reaching 1.2 KHz are big and sometimes very expensive

The Beyma I am suggesting seems to be in a special sweet spot because it can go low in freq, very high in SPL (111 dB/W/m, 70 W AES, 140 W program power !!) at a limited cost / weight (2 Kg, some 100€ with horn included).

Crossing over at 800...900 Hz will sound better, but I clearly cannot get those high SPLs. I understand most users pad the mid-range in a 15/6 config (some 3dB?) but I am not sure this could be done in a 15/15/6 config I am proposing. And if you run full amp's power on high freqs, then the mid-range could be fried. Max SPL is some 124.5 dB against the 129 dB I can get from the horn.

I could go and add multiple mid-ranges (at the end this is the 151566 with 2 mids), but this would be worse in terms of dispersion. Then the solution in the 151566 design is to limit max freq. to the mids to a lower value... which requires a big horn for the highs. I am not fully convinced, and I think I read a comment from Greenboy suggesting they could move to a bigger horn for a 2 way 1515.

I also think that this simpler 2 way design has the cost of a highly priced bigger horn (Eminence does not have anything suitable), but there are a couple of Beyma horns that could do the trick

So if I could use the horn down to 1200 Hz (as recommended by manufacturer) without issues, I tend to think this solution could be a balanced, relatively simple solution.

Thanks!

I pad the mids by 3db but have a switch to put them to full. You will not get full power to them due to losses in the High pass filter circuit. The 18 sound 6.5" speaker is rated at 100 watts I believe but I am going to check I The Horns I had were pretty heafty in weight due to Large magnet and handled 85 watts RMS Each (Eminence). You are right, you can't go as low with the horns but I will say they put out a clean clear tone when heard by themselves unlike the cheaper Fosters on some cabs sounds scratchy and distorted when played by themselves but sound fine in the mix with the 15" speaker. I no longer am using the horns and may sell them .They have never been used at high volume levels as my GK 700RBII is loud enough at 1/2 volume level.

18 Sound 6ND410 speaker is rated at 120 watts RMS. Check it out at USSpeaker.com US SPEAKER PARTS - Speakers, Speaker Cabinets, Guitar speakers, Bass speakers, , Woofers, HF Drivers, speaker upgrades and replacement speakers. Eminence Speaker, JBL speakers, 18 Sound, B&C, EV, Tannoy, Peavey, Celestion, RCF, Jensen, Beyma, Fane, P

 

[parapentep70]

Finally, after putting a number of engineering hours in WinISD (this cab will be a lot more expensive than any boutique commercial cab if I account for them), I decided to go with the 3015.

At least at 750W for 2 cabs a bit smaller than 2 fEarful 15/6, the higher excursion limit of the LF is not an advantage, even playing a low B at full power. And the -2dB lower sensitivity will be a disadvantage.

The 15P80Nd could go to more watts (both excursion and thermal limits are higher), and the sensitivity about 1 dB lower should be reduced to zero when accounting for compression losses at high power. Quality seems to be higher. But it is significantly heavier (datasheet is wrong), has higher VAS (in my mind the reason why it doesn't like smaller boxes and response could be "boomier") and I get zero advantage with the 700W I plan to put on the 2 boxes.

So I ended up with the Kappalite 3015 non-LF.

When I checked prices I saw that in my favourite shop they were above 250 € each. I saw multiple places with prices lower than 150€... but they ran out of stock (neodymium supply problems, I guess now). Finally I found a place where they had 4 units at 120 GBP. This morning there were just 2, so I made a quick decision, DIY+3015.

I hope that another customer didn't place an order 5 minutes before mine. I cross fingers.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

My preference is to use the Beyma CD10Nd with the appropriate horn.

Hello parapentep70,

I like your overall approach. I've used Beyma compression drivers in many of my home audio designs, and think very highly of them.

If you're going to cross over down around 1.2 kHz, in my opinion you need a pretty big horn or else you're going to lose pattern control (and possibly lose loading on the compression driver, which can reduce mechanical power handling). I consider the Beyma TD-250 to be a strong candidate for your application, but didn't see it on Beyma's website so it might be discontinued. If you have to compromise on horn size, consider raising your target crossover frequency a bit.

In my experience, doing a good passive crossover for a horn crossed over in the region you're thinking of is something of a challenge. Pay attention to the impedance peaks of your particular driver/horn combination. If you do not achieve a steep enough rolloff, your horn will be inadequately protected. My personal preference is for constant-directivity horns, which usually require more aggressive equalization than other types.

Good luck with your highly ambitious project!