Eminence Kappalite 3015

[parapentep70]

Hello parapentep70,

I like your overall approach. I've used Beyma compression drivers in many of my home audio designs, and think very highly of them.

If you're going to cross over down around 1.2 kHz, in my opinion you need a pretty big horn or else you're going to lose pattern control (and possibly lose loading on the compression driver, which can reduce mechanical power handling). I consider the Beyma TD-250 to be a strong candidate for your application, but didn't see it on Beyma's website so it might be discontinued. If you have to compromise on horn size, consider raising your target crossover frequency a bit.

In my experience, doing a good passive crossover for a horn crossed over in the region you're thinking of is something of a challenge. Pay attention to the impedance peaks of your particular driver/horn combination. If you do not achieve a steep enough rolloff, your horn will be inadequately protected. My personal preference is for constant-directivity horns, which usually require more aggressive equalization than other types.

Good luck with your highly ambitious project!

Thanks a lot. I finally bought 2 Kappalite 3015's, possibly the last 2 in Europe at low price !! This means no way back.

I am planning to build the tweeterless cab, tune it carefully (I have the proper equipment), then connect both the cab and the tweeter to a computer-based bi-amped system and taylor good x-over frequency / attenuation to the best results with low power. Then designing a crossover that gives similar response and padding is the easy part for me.

Point taken about variable tweeter impedance with frequency, this will have a strong impact on the design of the attenuation network. Perhaps this is one reason why people don't like horns for upper mids. I overlooked this, thaks for the hint.

The horn I am proposing is not small, in fact the height (determining lowest frequency for effective vertical dispersion) is larger than the TD-250. It is one of those "modern things" with square shape, but whose directivity is "rectangular" or "elliptical"

Link Removed

 

[LoveThatBass]

Thanks a lot. I finally bought 2 Kappalite 3015's, possibly the last 2 in Europe at low price !! This means no way back.

I am planning to build the tweeterless cab, tune it carefully (I have the proper equipment), then connect both the cab and the tweeter to a computer-based bi-amped system and taylor good x-over frequency / attenuation to the best results with low power. Then designing a crossover that gives similar response and padding is the easy part for me.

Point taken about variable tweeter impedance with frequency, this will have a strong impact on the design of the attenuation network. Perhaps this is one reason why people don't like horns for upper mids. I overlooked this, thaks for the hint.

The horn I am proposing is not small, in fact the height (determining lowest frequency for effective vertical dispersion) is larger than the TD-250. It is one of those "modern things" with square shape, but whose directivity is "rectangular" or "elliptical"

Link Removed

Curious, I don't see the wattage spec's. Did I miss something?

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Thanks a lot. I finally bought 2 Kappalite 3015's, possibly the last 2 in Europe at low price !! This means no way back.

I am planning to build the tweeterless cab, tune it carefully (I have the proper equipment), then connect both the cab and the tweeter to a computer-based bi-amped system and taylor good x-over frequency / attenuation to the best results with low power. Then designing a crossover that gives similar response and padding is the easy part for me.

Point taken about variable tweeter impedance with frequency, this will have a strong impact on the design of the attenuation network. Perhaps this is one reason why people don't like horns for upper mids. I overlooked this, thaks for the hint.

The horn I am proposing is not small, in fact the height (determining lowest frequency for effective vertical dispersion) is larger than the TD-250. It is one of those "modern things" with square shape, but whose directivity is "rectangular" or "elliptical"

Link Removed

Hi parapentep70,

I didn't realize you were using an active crossover with EQ - that is a great idea in this case.

The horn you linked to is not very big and I believe it will start losing pattern control in both planes around 1800 Hz. (edit: The published curves indicate this happens around 2 kHz). Not that it isn't useable to 1200 Hz, just be aware.

Best wishes,

Duke

 

[btp]

Wow. Perhaps I am a tonal neanderthal, but I am worried that maybe you guys are thinking too much...

At practice, I play a simple 115 cabinet (Dr.Bass) with a Kappalite 3015, period. No crossover, no tweeter, nothing. When I want more high end, I use tone controls. The 3015 sounds great: loud, clear, etc. For gigs, I stack a 210 with a tweeter on top, but I am sure I'd be just as happy with another 3015.

May I paraphrase a very apt TB signature about tone:
80/20 is easy; 90/10 is expensive; and you can't get the last 5 at any price?

 

[1n3]

Wow. Perhaps I am a tonal neanderthal, but I am worried that maybe you guys are thinking too much...

At practice, I play a simple 115 cabinet (Dr.Bass) with a Kappalite 3015, period. No crossover, no tweeter, nothing. When I want more high end, I use tone controls. The 3015 sounds great: loud, clear, etc. For gigs, I stack a 210 with a tweeter on top, but I am sure I'd be just as happy with another 3015.

May I paraphrase a very apt TB signature about tone:
80/20 is easy; 90/10 is expensive; and you can't get the last 5 at any price?

I'd guess you haven't spent much time on the amps forum. Just as there are good reasons to use single-driver cabinets, there are good reasons to use 2 and 3-way systems. Different strokes...

 

[btp]

I'd guess you haven't spent much time on the amps forum. Just as there are good reasons to use single-driver cabinets, there are good reasons to use 2 and 3-way systems. Different strokes...

Actually, my wife ways I spend way too much time in the amps forum! That's probably why I've got a modular rig, so I can choose different combinations of drivers for different situations... 1-way, 2-way, 3-way, just like you say.

So, without meaning to be excessively disrespectful, I was just amazed to discover 13 pages of elaborate, technical posts on the topic of the 3015, when the bottom line is this: you can stick a 3015 in a reasonable sized ported box, stop thinking, and start rocking.

 

[Randall]

I just put one in my ev15b 400w loaded cab (1983 vintage custom cab no idea who made it) and it sounds very nice to my ears. So yes i agree

 

[parapentep70]

Curious, I don't see the wattage spec's. Did I miss something?

Errr....Yes! The driver, the Beyma CD10nD, I only posted the link to the horn. It's Link Removed.

 

[parapentep70]

Hi parapentep70,

I didn't realize you were using an active crossover with EQ - that is a great idea in this case.

The horn you linked to is not very big and I believe it will start losing pattern control in both planes around 1800 Hz. (edit: The published curves indicate this happens around 2 kHz). Not that it isn't useable to 1200 Hz, just be aware.

Best wishes,

Duke

I guess that's right, I prefer a larger beam (therefore slightly less gain) in the band 1200...1800 rather than beaming with a really narrow pattern from some 3000 when using a mid-sized mid-range. It's a different compromise.

Looking at curves I think the TD164 horn I plan to use is slightly better than the TD250, that is apparently good enough. At the end the 250 was recommended for use from 1500 Hz.

I´d prefer a slightly larger horn recommended from 800Hz (larger in horizontal AND vertical dimensions), but comp. driver + horn is a lot more expensive for teh SPLs I am aiming.

The active EQ is just for "prototyping". On one hand using the 3015 (non LF!) full range is not bad at all (I agree with btp and many Barefaced happy customers). If I add horn above 4 KHz it will be better. Crossing over at 1200 may be non optimum but reasonable... then there should be a good freq. to cross over with good results. I'll use active EQ to determine reasonable attenuation and crossover point (and other things like the effect of leaving the tweeter-less cab without LP filter).

 

[parapentep70]

Wow. Perhaps I am a tonal neanderthal, but I am worried that maybe you guys are thinking too much...

At practice, I play a simple 115 cabinet (Dr.Bass) with a Kappalite 3015, period. No crossover, no tweeter, nothing. When I want more high end, I use tone controls. The 3015 sounds great: loud, clear, etc. For gigs, I stack a 210 with a tweeter on top, but I am sure I'd be just as happy with another 3015.

May I paraphrase a very apt TB signature about tone:
80/20 is easy; 90/10 is expensive; and you can't get the last 5 at any price?

I tend to agree with what you say. 100% with last phrase. And I am happy to know that 3015 full range "sounds good enough". I understand the disadvantages, but I cannot quantify "to what extent". At the end of the day my current 4x10 is the worst configuration for beaming high mids, but... it sounds good enough, and the 1x15 (well, vertical 2x15 in my case) should be better.

Then I am glad I have a fall-back plan (go full range or cross over very high).

 

[parapentep70]

And... thank you all, this is very useful information about multiple ways to use the 3015. I am looking forward to start working on this.

 

[grobe]

Which commercial branded speakers use the 3015's? Genz Benz? Did I read that post right? Who builds custom cabs with a single 3015?

 

[rpsands]

Barefaced is the only one I am aware of.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Which commercial branded speakers use the 3015's?

I'd think that anyone using a premium driver like the 3015 would say so, it would be a good selling point.

 

[PawleeP]

does anyone knows if a 3015 or a 3015LF would fare good in an Ampeg SVT15E?

(the cab is made in Vietnam but it's made of plywood not MDF).

great inight on this thread!
i was thinking the same thing for mine.. 2 @ 3" ports (stock) are prolly too small though (for the LF-but just speculating) then i would have a small sub for PA use too! one guy on here said i could run a 3015HO no problem (but to shorten the ports) P

 

[PawleeP]

That's a poor matchup IMO, at least based on the published specs. The 6ND430 is not very sensitive and is more of a mid-bass driver than a midrange one. The 6ND410 is what's used in the fEarful designs, and works well crossed anywhere from ~500-800 Hz, in my experience. Some people prefer a crossover point closer to 1200 though. I'd recommend starting with a variable active crossover if at all possible -- that way you can decide for yourself.

what about an alpha 8 or 6 for the mids? p

 

[PawleeP]

Hello Bass Heads,

I read a lot of threads about putting Eminence 3015 Neo's in the SUNN 2x15m Bass Cabinets. Well, awhile back I bought a 73' model Sunn 190b with the 2x15"m cabinet.
I took the old Sunn Magna alinco's out and put the 2 Eminence kappalite 3015 Neo's in the cabinet.
Saturday night I had a outdoor GIG for about 200 people and all I can say is that the speakers and cabinet sounded "OVER THE TOP AWESOME"!!!
Bill Fitzmaurice the cabinet builder said that you need a mid-range driver to sound good off axis. Well IMHO that is just not true. I used my wireless unit and walk all over the place, and off axis just to see if the sound suffered; it did not. In fact my P.bass lyte through the Sunn 190b sounded like a deep piano string grind with great ringing overtones everywhere out front of the stage and off to the side. Oh, and the speakers are brand new not even broke-in. Also, some of the treads suggested that the kappalites neo's are to much speaker for the old Sunn 2x15s & 2x15m cabinets, and once more IMHO that is just not true. My Lil' 60watt R.M.S. Sunn sounded as good or better than my friends SWR, Ampegs and GK's.
There were a couple other bands at our gig and all the bassplayers & guitarplayers told me how great my bass sounded and how cool the old Sunn looked and they couldn't believe it was only a 60 watt amp.
I've been a weekend warrior for 30 years and owned Acoustic 150,450 & 370's, Ampeg B-15's, B25's, BT140's and a 75 SVT/ 2 8x10's; all were great amps, but, once more in IMHO Sunn has them all bet. I'm on my third model-T( two 73' & a 76') a 78'Concert, a 200s and now my 190b....
Anyway, the Eminence 3015 kappalites Kick--s;great tone & punch with a solid deep end. I've got a newer 4x10/horn rated 800watts@ 8 ohms, 2 different 1x18" 400watts @4 ohms ea. all sound really good but the tone of this old 190b w/ 2x15m is nothing short of awesome.
"Blessings to all in the Bass World and Keep On ROCKIN" !!!!!

maybe people just want to promote crossovers, not sure..
by the way are you referring to a 200s or a 2000s sun?
i have a 200s clone i just took the stock force 15's out of and put 2 delta 15 pro's in there, not sure how it sounds cranked up with a full group yetm and not sure if the 15pro's are gonna stay in there either..

 

[petrus61]

I threw a 3015 in my GK NEO115III and couldn't be happier. It's now several gigs and multiple rehearsals in and I couldn't recommend it more for folks who find their NEO115III to be just "ok". Totally tightened up the mids and extended the lows a hair with a nice, airy clarity across the spectrum. It took a decent cab and made it better. I wasn't expecting a big difference, but it was.

 

[drobinsn]

I need to to replace the OEM Eminence 15 in my Powerhouse 115. I'm considering the 3015. If anyone could share any insight or experiences I would appreciate it. I have had a some problems with the speaker in other Powerhouse cabs I've owned before and want to consider some other options. BTW I already own a Subway 115 and love it.

 

[Chef]

I can't speak to your specific box
However I had two older mesa diesel 115's I swapped kappalite 3015 into, and that worked really well.