Entwistle/Redding sound

[darthplagis]

well as for the jazz bass, my generation was actually a jazz, and johns 1st 'axe' bass was based on a jazz pickups and circuit.

but to get the true john tone "live at leeds" and "isle of wight" you will really need a P or another humbucker (like a T bird), jazz basses seem a little to soft in the mids to get that bite that john had. but im sure a bit of compression and low mid boost will help on a jazz.

oh and frets are a must for the john 'bite'

i personally hate roto strings, they drop out of tune and loose their tone really fast, yes i am putting them on without kinks and stretching them properly but i am allergic to nickel so i cant comment on nickel strings, however status graphite strings are really bright keep in tune and last quite a while, yet still have the bright but not straight out of the packet zing for ages too.

warwick strings are nice too but the budget line are nickel

 

[PBass101]

I'd say I get about a solid week of great tone out of my Rotosound's, after that it's a steady decline but usually "good enough" for band and at-home practices for several weeks. If my lazy-ass band could actually get it together to start doing some shows I'd probably replace them more frequently, but then I know where to get them very cheaply.

Status strings sound good but I'm not paying for import shipping and duties on strings. Why does England have all the best bass gear?

 

[dannster]

The gold strings are now made and sold as Optima strings. eBay is a good place to find them.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] has 'em. Man, those are spendy. Cool to see they still make them. Maybe for one of my bigger shows I'll splurge.

 

[brachal]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] has 'em. Man, those are spendy. Cool to see they still make them. Maybe for one of my bigger shows I'll splurge.

Wow, spendy is right. I once bought a bass for less than that!

 

[KPAX]

Back then they were just called Swing Bass 66.
But they weren't the stainless. They were the nickel steel.

I highly doubt this based on everything I have ever read, can anyone who was around in the 60s + 70s let us know if they were ever Nickel plated?

 

[KPAX]

Dude, I'm not lying.

I don't know about the 1960's but in the 1970's the Swing Bass 66 weren't stainless. Stainless came later.

Roundwounds weren't even made by US manufacturers in the 1960's. Even though Entwistle (English) had been using them for years, roundwounds didn't begin to catch on and hit US stores until the early 70's (around the time of Deep Purple Machine Head and Yes Fragile) and the Rotosound Swing Bass 66 were the ONLY roundwounds available through most of the 70's. Back then ALL basses came strung with flatwounds (even Rics) and only very few in-the-know stores knew what roundwounds or Rotosound even were. It was all La Bella, Fender and Black Diamond flats back then.

And those Rotosound Swing Bass 66 strings were not stainless steel. They were nickel steel.

Gotta love the intentional dis-information on this website.

 

[JTE]

So, we have Kpax's assertion that RS-66 were originally nickle and not stainless, and we have a quote (unsubstantiated however) from James Howe, THE man at Rotosound, saying RS-66 were always stainless.

I'm gonna go with the Howe qoute. I know most basses were shipped with flats for a LONG time. Fender only started shipping basses with roundwound strings around early 1983 (when they introduced the Studio Bass strings). But Danelectro shipped with rounds early on (the reason Etnwistle used a Dano for the early takes of "My Generation").

jte

 

[greenboy]

All the interviews I ever read seemed to indicate SS as well.

 

[p-bass]

Dude, I'm not lying.

I don't know about the 1960's but in the 1970's the Swing Bass 66 weren't stainless. Stainless came later.

Roundwounds weren't even made by US manufacturers in the 1960's. Even though Entwistle (English) had been using them for years, roundwounds didn't begin to catch on and hit US stores until the early 70's (around the time of Deep Purple Machine Head and Yes Fragile) and the Rotosound Swing Bass 66 were the ONLY roundwounds available through most of the 70's. Back then ALL basses came strung with flatwounds (even Rics) and only very few in-the-know stores knew what roundwounds or Rotosound even were. It was all La Bella, Fender and Black Diamond flats back then.

And those Rotosound Swing Bass 66 strings were not stainless steel. They were nickel steel.

Stainless came later ? Huh...Okay,if you say so ? Sometimes I gotta wonder where people get their information ?

 

[KPAX]

I'm aware of that bit of Rotosound marketing and I don't have an explanation for it. Maybe at some point they committed to pushing the stainless line - I don't know. What I do know is it's not true.
That version of history came out well after the 70's (mid/late 80's or 90's I'm thinking). Maybe they were responding to the competition.
Back in the 70's, the swing bass 66 strings sounded great but they would often go dead pretty quickly - sometimes right out of the pack. By the 80's, roundwound competition sprang up everywhere and a LOT of people were looking for a longer life alternative to the Rotosound Swing Bass 66.
I don't know if Rotosound was the first stainless steel string or not (maybe they were) but it wasn't in the 70's and from that I'm inferring it also wasn't in the 60's.
Anyways, yeah, I know I'm at odds with today's Rotosound marketing but what's true is true. The Swing Bass 66 strings of the 70's were not stainless. They were nickel steel.

SS it is... from Rotosound:
"By 1963 many bass players were suffering from a lack of tone and definition using flatwound strings and their sound was lost in the mix of many recordings. This led to many hours of work with top acoustic and electric bassists to find the best material combination available to satisfy the needs of these highly regarded musicians.
Around this time James came up with a combination of Stainless Steel and round wire to produce an extremely high output bass string, the likes of which had never been heard before. This string was christened "Swing Bass RS66" and for many years has set the standard by which all other bass strings are evaluated. To this day, all Rotosound bass strings are handmade in the same way as they were back in the early 1960's- a technique that we're passionate about retaining!"

 

[KPAX]

Yeah, I knew someone would mention the Danelectro. That's true but everything else was flats.

So, we have Kpax's assertion that RS-66 were originally nickle and not stainless, and we have a quote (unsubstantiated however) from James Howe, THE man at Rotosound, saying RS-66 were always stainless.

I'm gonna go with the Howe qoute. I know most basses were shipped with flats for a LONG time. Fender only started shipping basses with roundwound strings around early 1983 (when they introduced the Studio Bass strings). But Danelectro shipped with rounds early on (the reason Etnwistle used a Dano for the early takes of "My Generation").

jte

 

[lunarpollen]

Wow, spendy is right. I once bought a bass for less than that!

The Optima strings are a *lot* cheaper on eBay

 

[PBass101]

I don't know about the 1960's

But the 60's Rotosounds are what we're talking about!

KPAX, we have the facts from multiple sources and then we have your statements, yet to be proven in any form. Look, if you had any proof of the strings being nickel, I'd love to see it. I'm not opposed to learning the truth beyond dogma, but I've yet to read anything other than what you've said that proves that they were nickel-wounds.

"Around this time James came up with a combination of Stainless Steel and round wire to produce an extremely high output bass string" - it doesn't say that it was James How's idea to produce roundwound strings, it says he put the stainless steel materials and the roundwound design together for their product. I doubt John Entwistle, despite his wanting a particular design for the bass string, knew much about the properties of metals. That was Roger's area.

I'll forward the email from Rotosound to anybody who wants it, it was signed Jason How, not James How.

 

[KPAX]

Well, at the moment we're at an impasse because I can't point you to a website to prove my point.
The problem is sources. Anything off the internet is digital text, most of it dating from the 90's at the earliest and most of it is marketing stuff from manufacturers. Back in the 70's there was only print. That kind of points to how the internet is defining reality and skewing history for some people.
Here's some background:
I'm 49 and I started playing bass when I was 12 in the early 70's. By age 13 I was playing gigs. All through Jr High and HS I played with musicians who were at least 3 years older than me. I grew up in southern California. Anyways' I was there when Rotosound Swing Bass really hit the US. The Brits had them in the late 60's but they didn't hit US stores until the early 70's and even then, only a few stores would get them. Believe me, Rotosound roundwounds were a quest for me and others who played modern bass then.
I played those strings. I know what they felt like, what they looked like, what they sounded like and how they behaved over time and in the elements. They were ALL I used from age 12 or 13 to age 21 when I stopped playing to go to college.
They were definately not what is sold today as RS66LD.
They were either the same as or much more similar to RN66LD.
Here's what I can tell you:
Number 1. The old Rotos often died quickly (lost their twang). Stainless steel strings don't do that because stainless steel doesn't corrode. The old Rotos did corrode. The old Rotos often went maddeningly dead fairly quickly (sometimes in a few days or a week). That's why Entwistle, Squire, Lake etc. changed them every show. Stainless doesn't do that.
Number 2. Nickel steel Rotos are slightly darker looking (or gray) compared to stainless. The old Rotos looked like todays RN66LD.
Number 3. The RN66LD feel more rubbery than the RS66LD - I'm talking same gauges. The old Rotos had that same somewhat rubbery feel. You could bend them fairly easily.
Number 4. The sound. The RS66LD have a more brittle harsh sound that the old Rotos didn't have. The old ones had lots of bright twang but not that brittle sound. The RN66LD sound like the old Rotos.
Number 5. I remember reading in their print literature that Swing Bass 66 were a Nickel Steel alloy. I remember when I first saw stainless at a store and thought awesome! But then I tried them and they weren't the same sound and feel. There's always a tradeoff. The stainless addresses the shorter life of the nickel steel but there's no free lunch.

Rotosound can say the original Swing Bass 66 was stainless steel all they want. Maybe the core was but the winding was certainly not. They can say the RS66LD is the old long scale swing bass 66 but that's BS. What they sell today as RS66LD is not the old string. The RN66LD is either the same as or a lot more similar to the old Swing Bass 66.

But the 60's Rotosounds are what we're talking about!

KPAX, we have the facts from multiple sources and then we have your statements, yet to be proven in any form. Look, if you had any proof of the strings being nickel, I'd love to see it. I'm not opposed to learning the truth beyond dogma, but I've yet to read anything other than what you've said that proves that they were nickel-wounds.

"Around this time James came up with a combination of Stainless Steel and round wire to produce an extremely high output bass string" - it doesn't say that it was James How's idea to produce roundwound strings, it says he put the stainless steel materials and the roundwound design together for their product. I doubt John Entwistle, despite his wanting a particular design for the bass string, knew much about the properties of metals. That was Roger's area.

I'll forward the email from Rotosound to anybody who wants it, it was signed Jason How, not James How.

 

[PBass101]

...Stainless steel lasts longer than nickel? Apparently I'm living in the Twilight Zone. Now I don't know what to think.

I obviously have no material point of reference to what the old Rotosound's were like. I would count on the fact that the technique and 'recipe' for making Rotosound's strings changes everytime they think they can do something better or save money. Some people swear the RS66 of today are alot different than the RS66 from just ten years ago, so who knows. Entwistle's dead so we can't ask him, maybe somebody can email Chris Squire?

 

[Meatrus]

...Stainless steel lasts longer than nickel? Apparently I'm living in the Twilight Zone. Now I don't know what to think.

I obviously have no material point of reference to what the old Rotosound's were like. I would count on the fact that the technique and 'recipe' for making Rotosound's strings changes everytime they think they can do something better or save money. Some people swear the RS66 of today are alot different than the RS66 from just ten years ago, so who knows. Entwistle's dead so we can't ask him, maybe somebody can email Chris Squire?

I think if he replied he would say something a long the line of "they were steel, everyone knows that".

Kpax, both your first points are untrue in one way or another, Rotosound steels still lose there zing really quickly and its nothing to do with corrosion. 2. Nickel is a bright shiny material the fact that the old strings looked like nowadays steel 66 kind of proves that they were steel. And number 4. all the tracks I have heard with Rotos sounds quite harsh to me, exactly like roto 66 in fact....

You seem to be confusing your personal opinion which you had when you were 13 with fact, as you really haven't come up with one good reason why how they could have been Nickel, other than you thought they were at the time.

Sorry if the above sounds arsey, I just hate to see untrue information being passed on.

 

[lowendblues]

For what its worth,, give DR Highbeams a try.

They sound great, have a good feel, and will last alot longer than the Rotosounds.

I used to use Rotosound, but got tired of finding dead strings in brand new packs.

 

[4-string]

Elites are a great alternative to Rotos, at least as good sounding and they stay that way for a long, long time.

 

[KPAX]

They're both steel. Stainless steel and nickel steel. We're talking about alloys. Do you know what an alloy is? And the two types of steel are visibly different. If you don't know this there's no point in my trying to explain it.
The same goes for the sound. "Harsh" roundwound tone is meaningless unless compared to something else. When I say the RS66LD sound harsher and brittle, I'm saying compared to the old Rotos and the RN66LD (nickel steel).
The same goes for string longevity. No strings last forever but stainless steel strings keep their brightness longer than nickel steel. If you don't know or believe this then there's nothing more to say.
Hey man, believe what you want.

I think if he replied he would say something a long the line of "they were steel, everyone knows that".

Kpax, both your first points are untrue in one way or another, Rotosound steels still lose there zing really quickly and its nothing to do with corrosion. 2. Nickel is a bright shiny material the fact that the old strings looked like nowadays steel 66 kind of proves that they were steel. And number 4. all the tracks I have heard with Rotos sounds quite harsh to me, exactly like roto 66 in fact....

You seem to be confusing your personal opinion which you had when you were 13 with fact, as you really haven't come up with one good reason why how they could have been Nickel, other than you thought they were at the time.

Sorry if the above sounds arsey, I just hate to see untrue information being passed on.

 

[Meatrus]

They're both steel. Stainless steel and nickel steel. We're talking about alloys. Do you know what an alloy is? And the two types of steel are visibly different. If you don't know this there's no point in my trying to explain it.
The same goes for the sound. "Harsh" roundwound tone is meaningless unless compared to something else. When I say the RS66LD sound harsher and brittle, I'm saying compared to the old Rotos and the RN66LD (nickel steel).
The same goes for string longevity. No strings last forever but stainless steel strings keep their brightness longer than nickel steel. If you don't know or believe this then there's nothing more to say.
Hey man, believe what you want.

I'm sorry if I have upset you, I didn't mean to.

However you do seem to be reaching unrivalled arrogance to say everyone here and all the material they have read is wrong. And you are right because you remember it a certain way. The point remains that other than you remembering it a certain way you don't have any other info to prove it your way, but there is plenty to prove it the other.

A guy above even emailed Rotosound, I do honestly think they would know, and have little to gain from lying.

Again sorry if that sounded arsey