Envelope filter/follower addict support group

[Funkinthetrunk]

I'm not sure if there is something wrong with me or not, but I must be the first bass player to not dig the IE Xerograph Deluxe. I mean, I like it, but I don't love it. It comes very highly recommended a lot, but I'm just not getting along with it.

I didn't have much love for it either. I overwhelmingly prefer the 00FUNK, so I kept it and sold the Xero. No love loss for the Moogerfooger either. Though, those 2 are currently commanding premium $$$. When the Tru-Tron 3x came out, I no longer had use for my Fooger.

 

[kleinenenten]

I'm not sure if there is something wrong with me or not, but I must be the first bass player to not dig the IE Xerograph Deluxe. I mean, I like it, but I don't love it. It comes very highly recommended a lot, but I'm just not getting along with it.

Sometimes that's how it goes. That was my end assessment of the Proton. Nothing wrong with it at all, but not for me. And - though it's a "dirt pedal" - the absolute fastest turnaround for a pedal for me was the Darkglass B7K Ultra. Too much shrill, hissing treble content, no matter what I did. Tried it for about a week, never found a setting that gave me what I wanted without the hiss, and off it went. Everyone usually raves about that pedal, but I much preferred the standard B3K! And these days, I prefer the Damnation MBD-2 for those tones.

 

[moon-bass]

Sometimes that's how it goes. That was my end assessment of the Proton. Nothing wrong with it at all, but not for me. And - though it's a "dirt pedal" - the absolute fastest turnaround for a pedal for me was the Darkglass B7K Ultra. Too much shrill, hissing treble content, no matter what I did. Tried it for about a week, never found a setting that gave me what I wanted without the hiss, and off it went. Everyone usually raves about that pedal, but I much preferred the standard B3K! And these days, I prefer the Damnation MBD-2 for those tones.

Yeah man, I can dig it. I never had a real Moog, but I've tried a few clones and never understood what the fuss was about. I do like the Proton tho, but there are others that I like better.

I'm always open to revisiting things, my tastes have changed quite a bit over the years, and even quite a bit recently. I'm actually itching to try a Meatball (or most likely clone) again.

And I'm with you on the Darkglass. Never cared for their preamps/distortion pedals at all, especially B7K. Never found a setting that I liked.

 

[stambroker]

I have tried a bunch of filters but keep coming back to the Moog. I regret every time I take it off the board!

I recently re-added the Dr. Scientist Dusk that I was hoping to replace my Moog with, and having the two as different set options has been really sweet. More filters need the Dusk's function of triggering synth swells w/o expression.

PS great thread, very much enjoying reading!

I have the FTelettronica Meatball clone (never played an original one) and dig it a lot in studio applications, but it's not as usable in a full band environment imo. I used to have a Xerograph and while it sounded great, lacked a special something character that other filters I tried had. Almost like it's too clean, if that makes sense?

I didn't get on with the Proton, MXR BEF, Subdecay Prometheus, Aguilar, or EBS, but all were bulletproof and very usable.

Still want to try out a Vongon Paragraphs and Earthquaker Spatial Delivery one of these days!

 

[Funkinthetrunk]

Envelope filters are like pizza. They all taste good, taste different and we all have our favorites.

 

[moon-bass]

Still want to try out a Vongon Paragraphs

A what!?!?!?! Off to Google, and more GAS!

Oh, and that's a nice board!!!!

 

[moon-bass]

As a side note, I'm on the fence about the Macrodose. On one hand, it sounds killer - really funky and synthy! On the other hand, I won't take advantage of half of it's capabilities ...

 

[moon-bass]

Today is a good envelope filter day!

 

[CuiFoo]

Today is a good envelope filter day!

View attachment 7260145

Would love to hear your thoughts comparing the Proton and Fwonkbeta in particular

 

[moon-bass]

Would love to hear your thoughts comparing the Proton and Fwonkbeta in particular

OKay, so here are my initial thoughts on the two new ones - the Emma Discombobulator and the Mr. Black Fwonkbeta -

Both are fairly similar in that they both sounds really good, and are very easy to get a good tone out of (the Fwonkbeta even more so). In fact, of all of the filters that I have played, these are probably the two easiest to get that classic envelope filter sound out of them.

The Fwonkbeta is almost like a one trick pony, but damn it does that trick very well! Like I said above, it's EXTREMELY easy to use and to get a good sound from. It's thick and juicy for sure - amongst the thickest and juiciest yet. TONS of stank - but with a caveat - at higher stank levels, the resonance seems to be almost a bit much. One thing that you hear a lot when ppl review these is that it needs a compressor after it (in fact, I used to think this myself) to tame the peaks; that being said, you really only have to worry about the peaks and the more extreme settings, and rather than a compressor, I found that a resonance filter after the pedals with the resonance dialed down just a TINY bit is MUCH better. All that thick juiciness comes thru and you don't have to worry about killing your speakers. It's also very responsive.

If I were looking for an easy to use filter that sounded great, the Fwonkbeta would be top of the list. It's very well suited for laying down a groove.

The Emma is just about as easy to get a good sound out of as the Fwonkbeta is, but it's a little more flexible. It's not quite as flexible as the Proton (more on that in a minute), but it's more flexible than the Fwonkbeta. It's also smoother and silkier - if the Fwonk is fat and sassy, the Emma slippery and sassy, if that makes sense. Less low end juice than the Fwonk, but more top end stank. The resonance on the Emma is very well controlled, and it just has this great response, very well suited for faster playing. It's also very responsive as well.

So very much like the Fwonk, but more suited for solo playing and up front.

I'll get some clips up.

Now, the Fwonkbeta and the Proton are fairly different IMO. The Fwonkbeta honestly is thicker and juicier, and it's responsive to a point, but the Proton is definitely more flexible, and once you spend time with it, a little more responsive to my playing style. Think of the Proton of being harder to dial in, but once you really get to it, you're able to dial it in more precisely. The Fwonkbeta, on the other hand, much easier to dial in, but more limited in sound options. Not that the Fwonkbeta isn't responsive - FAR from it - it's just that the proton is more tweakable.

Hope that all makes sense, please ask if you have any specific questions!

Edit: After playing thru them both more, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend either for that classic envelope filter sound. Both sound really good, and have great price points as well.

 

[moon-bass]

I uploaded samples of the Emma and the Fwonkbeta (the bass this time is a Fodera YYS, but recorded the same way as the others, i.e. direct into my Mac thru an Audient iD14 interface). Public - Google Drive

Same process as before, first and only take, flubs and all, I start with a great sound and then experiment a little with the knobs. Starting settings in the pics below.

@CuiFoo , I also did a direct comparison between the Fwonkbeta and the Proton. the clip starts out with the Fwonkbeta, and then around the one minute mark switches to the Proton.

 

[s_wood]

I'm not sure if there is something wrong with me or not, but I must be the first bass player to not dig the IE Xerograph Deluxe. I mean, I like it, but I don't love it. It comes very highly recommended a lot, but I'm just not getting along with it.

I didn’t like it, either. It was too fiddly for me… too difficult to repeatedly dial in the variety of typical filter sounds that I prefer.

 

[moon-bass]

I didn’t like it, either. It was too fiddly for me… too difficult to repeatedly dial in the variety of typical filter sounds that I prefer.

I'm glad to know I'm not alone! I think it's a great filter, but it's too ... i dunno, nice. It needs some stank sauce.

 

[Funkinthetrunk]

I uploaded samples of the Emma and the Fwonkbeta (the bass this time is a Fodera YYS, but recorded the same way as the others, i.e. direct into my Mac thru an Audient iD14 interface). Public - Google Drive

Same process as before, first and only take, flubs and all, I start with a great sound and then experiment a little with the knobs. Starting settings in the pics below.

@CuiFoo , I also did a direct comparison between the Fwonkbeta and the Proton. the clip starts out with the Fwonkbeta, and then around the one minute mark switches to the Proton.

View attachment 7260443View attachment 7260444View attachment 7260448

I have two thirds of these

 

[CuiFoo]

I uploaded samples of the Emma and the Fwonkbeta (the bass this time is a Fodera YYS, but recorded the same way as the others, i.e. direct into my Mac thru an Audient iD14 interface). Public - Google Drive

Same process as before, first and only take, flubs and all, I start with a great sound and then experiment a little with the knobs. Starting settings in the pics below.

@CuiFoo , I also did a direct comparison between the Fwonkbeta and the Proton. the clip starts out with the Fwonkbeta, and then around the one minute mark switches to the Proton.

View attachment 7260443View attachment 7260444View attachment 7260448

This is amazing, thanks a ton! Going to listen now

 

[Jakeman]

Are you guys that had not-great experiences with the Xerograph Deluxe giving it a try with an expression pedal? That really opened up the pedal for me, and I highly recommend trying it. Just in case there's anybody here with a Xerograph and giving up on it.

 

[moon-bass]

Are you guys that had not-great experiences with the Xerograph Deluxe giving it a try with an expression pedal? That really opened up the pedal for me, and I highly recommend trying it. Just in case there's anybody here with a Xerograph and giving up on it.

I did, and I liked it with the expression pedal! It has great range! And that led me to thinking (which is dangerous, I know) - one of the reasons why I like many of the envelope filters that I really like is due to the bit of stank/grit that they add, especially when at the ends of their range. It's noticeable in the AFL/AF-1 vs AF-9 comparisons - the AFL/AF-1 sounds a little stankier, gritier at the ends of it's range. Some filters (the Behringer) sound horrible at the end of their range, and some (the Xerograph Deluxe) either sound very smooth OR have an extended range, so the stank and grit isn't as prevalent.

To my ears, it's almost like OD, like it's clipping a little. Just like in preamp pedals, you can have an envelope filter that doesn't really clip/OD (like the Xero D), some that sounds great when they clip, and some that sound horrible and/or too resonant.

Some, like the Joshwah, don't clip at the edges of their range (or could be a very wide range that doesn't clip as much under normal playing) but allow you to dial in a bit of dirt.

Maybe this is why some envelope filters sound "too nice." Also could be why some sound "synthy" vs "vintage."

I dunno, just a theory, but in playing thru all of these filters I can definitely hear what I am talking about. Maybe this is well known amongst other filter junkies and I'm just catching up

 

[Jakeman]

I did, and I liked it with the expression pedal! It has great range! And that led me to thinking (which is dangerous, I know) - one of the reasons why I like many of the envelope filters that I really like is due to the bit of stank/grit that they add, especially when at the ends of their range. It's noticeable in the AFL/AF-1 vs AF-9 comparisons - the AFL/AF-1 sounds a little stankier, gritier at the ends of it's range. Some filters (the Behringer) sound horrible at the end of their range, and some (the Xerograph Deluxe) either sound very smooth OR have an extended range, so the stank and grit isn't as prevalent.

To my ears, it's almost like OD, like it's clipping a little. Just like in preamp pedals, you can have an envelope filter that doesn't really clip/OD (like the Xero D), some that sounds great when they clip, and some that sound horrible and/or too resonant.

Some, like the Joshwah, don't clip at the edges of their range (or could be a very wide range that doesn't clip as much under normal playing) but allow you to dial in a bit of dirt.

Maybe this is why some envelope filters sound "too nice." Also could be why some sound "synthy" vs "vintage."

I dunno, just a theory, but in playing thru all of these filters I can definitely hear what I am talking about. Maybe this is well known amongst other filter junkies and I'm just catching up

I make that distinction in my mind as well - I think of it as a sliding scale from dirty filter to clean filter. However, I’m usually running a fuzz or something into the filter and end up with a dirty sound anyway. IE Oxide into XeroD is a good example.

To add - here’s a quick sample of the Doom 2 into the XeroD with expression. Gives it that stank.

 

[moon-bass]

I realized that I didn't post any recordings of the Xerograph Deluxe or the Subterrograph .. and then I realized that I better hurry cuz it sold already. Recorded with a Fender Custom Shop Custom Classic into the ID14.

It *is* a cool filter, I have to say that the more I play thru it the more I dig it. How does an EF addict avoid seller's remorse!?!?!?!?!?!

Starting settings below, as always! The pic on the left is the start for the XD sample, the one on the right is for the full Subterrograph.

 

[kleinenenten]

I make that distinction in my mind as well - I think of it as a sliding scale from dirty filter to clean filter. However, I’m usually running a fuzz or something into the filter and end up with a dirty sound anyway. IE Oxide into XeroD is a good example.

To add - here’s a quick sample of the Doom 2 into the XeroD with expression. Gives it that stank.

I pretty much always play with some sort of dirt - usually a decent amount - and definitely prefer a dirty filter. The cleanest I get is a mild "tube" type grit from my Dunwich ODB clone or "GK grind" from my GK Rails Pedal. Dirt seems to help the filter respond a bit better for me. Of course, I could just adjust the parameters to make it more sensitive for playing clean, but then it's too extreme for my dirt! Obviously, I put my filter AFTER my various OD/distortion/fuzz pedals.