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Episode 88: S/D thread - No Hope

#721
askrere said:
Yea, hopefully it fits it's a universal bass case she says she's sold many times with the bass vi so if not I'll just take it back to the store and it was only $290...

I'll probably grab a set of la Bella flats for it or something. Joe gave me a set of rounds so I'll probably play it stock see if I bond, then do a string change to those rounds and do all the setup work (flip bridge around etc). After that I'm still loving it, I'll get the flats, new pickguard, wire it for series and some other stuff and add a mastery bridge
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Only change I made was to drop in beefier LaBella rounds, low E went from .92 to .102 or .94 to .104 or something like that. It's gone pretty well. I use an old coffin case for transport. Unless you're big into the trem bar, it's best left off. It falls out easily and gets in the way, IMO.
 
#725
They could always have modded it but the schematics I've seen was a pretty standard Fender stack. Now if it had some Marshall or Sunn mods to it then flat would be either different or simply unattainable.

Someone should link Dunwich's amp eq thread because it'll explain it better than I will but basically with the bass and treble turned down on a Fender Stack the mid control is simply a full range volume control at the point with no mid boosting or cutting ability. Moving from 0 to 2 won't make a huge different but it'll keep the mid control from killing the signal if turned all the way down.
 
#726
But why does it matter what the flat setting is. I was just trying to say that the amp is scooped by design (as most things are).

Any great tone or recording you've ever heard has had the midrange massaged in some fashion.

It's the honest truth but no one wants to admit it. Scooped mids is the THE rock bass tone.
 
#727
Pelham Bleu said:
Only change I made was to drop in beefier LaBella rounds, low E went from .92 to .102 or .94 to .104 or something like that. It's gone pretty well. I use an old coffin case for transport. Unless you're big into the trem bar, it's best left off. It falls out easily and gets in the way, IMO.
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Apparently you can buy a jazzmaster trem (any of them) and they'll drop in and keep the trem in better and allow for that string locking thing I'm still not familiar with.
 
#728
father of fires said:
I love to scoop my mids but only because they sound nasty to me. If I don't need to cut mids its usually because the bass or pedals do it for me already.

I don't know how some of you guys pull it off.
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Because I like sounding annoying.

Also, I started playing music on trombone, which I'm pretty sure is basically nothing but super annoying mids.
 
#729
The_Janitor said:
Well, my guitar player likes to scoop so I figure somebody needs to use that frequency space. I think it sounds great - the fuzz/od/distortion that I'm using is right up front in the mix, while still having lots of low end underneath.

It's really shocking how noticeable the difference when my guitar player decides to add or remove mids. I talked him into adding more a few months ago and it really helped him be more present in the mix, noticeably so. Then his roommate was showing him some scooped tones that he uses for recording that I guess sounded really heavy so he's back to scooping - and subsequently disappearing in the mix.

I even turned down my amp to compensate a little, as all I could hear was my bass and drums - still got asked if I had it louder than I usually do, because dude couldn't hear himself. He was a little miffed when I told him that the bass was actually quieter than normal.
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Lol, yeah. Both the main guitarists in Catapult scoop to some degree. They're both using Orange amps, so, Fender tone stack. It's okay, though, as they're scooping their mids at I think right about the same frequency I'm spiking mine.
 
#730
Ron Now said:
That doesn't sound right at all.

2-10-2 on the dial not a clock. I'm almost positive that is the "flat" eq for those amps.
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Yeah, the "2-10-2" rule for setting the Fender tone stack to flat uses "10" to mean the knob turned full on, not "10 o'clock." So to get that tone stack as close to flat as it can get, you dime the mids knob and roll the treble and bass to less than 1/4 on.

The manual on my BBE BMax pre, which uses the same tone stack, discusses that specifically.

Relevant thread: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/fender-alembic-bbe-tone-stack-explained-491699/
 
#731
Toastfuzz said:
So have I shown you guys a pic of my current rig yet?

Got the Acoustic running the 2x15 (replacing speakers in one today, so actively 4x15 by tonight) and the Butcher running the 4x12 column. I'm running the Bass channel 100% clean and have all my effects going to the guitar amp, and I gotta admit, I am f**king loving it.

The Acoustic + 15" drivers is such a good aggressively-vintage Mountain / Led Zeppelin tone that I'm actually happier not feeding it fuzz. The guitar amp has the Low turned down to min, and Mid and Treb to taste, gain around 4... with no pedals on, it adds a nice clean upper mid high end to my clean tone. Unlike all yinz debating mids over the last 4 pages, I f**king love upper mids, it gives me a Claypool boner every time. The Rat, Grey Stache fuzz, and old school Small Stone give me alot of sweet tones and is full/thick enough to keep our band sound as full as if we had a rhythm guitarist... our sound is becoming very psychedelic / jammy and our guitarist has alot of pedal-toys, so being able to hold down a thick rhythm on my own gives him alot more air to breath without worrying about us sounding overall thin like some 3-pieces when the guitarist breaks into a solo.

One day I'll put a push-pull and cap in my Ric and fix the Ric-o-Sound so I can do this bi-amp rig the proper way... but for now I just use a cheap ABY pedal. I'm slightly worried that still too much low end is getting to the guitar amp, so I'm looking for an EQ pedal or drive pedal with good EQ to cut some of those lows out. Laz suggested the Fdeck, may give that a look.

Have any of you guys seen these Sunn 4x12 columns??? They came up on CL and I got a pair for $150 total. One is serving our PA duties and 1 obviously has become part of my bass rig. I couldnt imagine how loud a 100 watt amp would be into both at once. I consider these a steal for what I paid and how good they sound. Just gotta dig in there and disconnect the tweeters...
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Hot damn.


I'll be in my bunk.
 
#732
askrere said:
If these amps have passive tone stacks, wouldn't they completely change your tone regardless of what's running in front of it? Like if it's always cutting mids does a prior mids boost really matter or do what it's technically supposed to if it's running right into a scoop? I know it might sound cool but I mean is it actually working as intended?
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I've sometimes thought about not using the graphic EQ on my head and instead boosting mids with an EQ pedal before the signal even gets to my amp (the amp's regular EQ section is a Fender tone stack... so the mid knob never leaves "10"), but I like the sound I'm getting with the graphic on and the 250hz and 625hz sliders boosted up all the way, so it's whatever.
 
#733
father of fires said:
They could always have modded it but the schematics I've seen was a pretty standard Fender stack. Now if it had some Marshall or Sunn mods to it then flat would be either different or simply unattainable.

Someone should link Dunwich's amp eq thread because it'll explain it better than I will but basically with the bass and treble turned down on a Fender Stack the mid control is simply a full range volume control at the point with no mid boosting or cutting ability. Moving from 0 to 2 won't make a huge different but it'll keep the mid control from killing the signal if turned all the way down.
Click to expand...

Interesting. What do you mean about Marshall or Sunn mods? I know the Marshall EQ used different component values, and so sounds different from Fender's, while still being a passive EQ, but was there anything else?
 
#734
father of fires said:
But why does it matter what the flat setting is. I was just trying to say that the amp is scooped by design (as most things are).

Any great tone or recording you've ever heard has had the midrange massaged in some fashion.

It's the honest truth but no one wants to admit it. Scooped mids is the THE rock bass tone.
Click to expand...

i pretty much run everything flat on my SVT and boost the bass a little (1-2pm, 3 if the room is larger), and sometimes i add a touch of treble but not really. my rule of thumb is if the amp doesnt sound good at flat i really dont want it. i friggin hate knob twiddling and preamps and limiters and compressors, after awhile i dont even know what the hell is even controlling the tone lol.
 
#735
Sartori said:
Interesting. What do you mean about Marshall or Sunn mods? I know the Marshall EQ used different component values, and so sounds different from Fender's, while still being a passive EQ, but was there anything else?
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It's got more mids and the components slightly different which gives slightly different operation. The bass control is mostly useless and the mids are more prominent. The Sunn is close but they have a few versions that behave more like a Marshall Super Bass than a Fender.
 
#736
beebassdude said:
i pretty much run everything flat on my SVT and boost the bass a little (1-2pm, 3 if the room is larger), and sometimes i add a touch of treble but not really. my rule of thumb is if the amp doesnt sound good at flat i really dont want it. i friggin hate knob twiddling and preamps and limiters and compressors, after awhile i dont even know what the hell is even controlling the tone lol.
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Just remember that an SVT is not flat when at noon. There is still a slight mid scoop.
 
#737
father of fires said:
But why does it matter what the flat setting is. I was just trying to say that the amp is scooped by design (as most things are).

Any great tone or recording you've ever heard has had the midrange massaged in some fashion.

It's the honest truth but no one wants to admit it. Scooped mids is the THE rock bass tone.
Click to expand...

Meh, I think it really depends on whose tone we're talking about. My favorites tend to be pretty middy, actually. Like Geezer Butler's on Master of Reality. By itself, that is some honky bass tone, but it sounds so perfectly gnarly with everything together.

I'm used to playing with mid-scooping guitarists, too. To me, things sound weird if nobody uses the midrange. Also, boosting lows and highs, I'm just competing with kick drum and cymbals. I come from mainly a black metal background, so that's a very losing battle, in my mind.
 
#738
father of fires said:
It's got more mids and the components slightly different which gives slightly different operation. The bass control is mostly useless and the mids are more prominent. The Sunn is close but they have a few versions that behave more like a Marshall Super Bass than a Fender.
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Ah, right. I think I'd heard somewhere that the Model T's preamp is more similar to a Marshall than to a Fender, but it still doesn't sound exactly like a Marshall because its power amp is quite different. Whereas the first generation Sunns have more Fender-ish preamps.
 
#740
I boost hi and lo mids a little on my GK, which I think is about flat (for mids) on that amp. The way I have it set, according to reviewers who've plotted the EQ, is boosted bass and treble (about 1-2 o'clock, I think flat would be 10-11 o'clock) and flat mids. I sometimes boost them in different amounts, depending on the pedal I'm using and the cab.
 

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