ESP MusicCord

[JimmyM]

This thread sparked my interest to actually look up some audio illusions and I ran across this video of the McGurk Effect.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I heard Fa very clearly. I think it's all a load of crap.



Actually that's pretty hilarious. Just closing my eyes shows me that the guy was saying Ba the whole time, but when I open them, he's saying Fa again. Everyone who believes in the MagicCord, please watch that video. Even knowing it's an illusion, I fall for it every time.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

I wouldn't think the company would still be in business if there isn't some truth to the claims.

Long overdue:

It's advertising! Go buy some Enzyte and see if that works as claimed too.

 

[Paullee01]

It's advertising! Go buy some Enzyte and see if that works as claimed too.

Bill you could have just left it as IT'S ADVERTISING!

 

[JimmyM]

Bill you could have just left it as IT'S ADVERTISING!

That wouldn't have been as fun or dramatic.

 

[chadds]

The people who didn't believe echinacea worked before the study showed zero improvement. Didn't matter whether they were given echinacea, placebo, or nothing. All the same results.

The people who believed in echinacea before the study all saw about 25% reduction in length of cold. Didn't matter whether they were given echinacea or a placebo.

Basically - believing it worked made it work.

Seems they used Echinacea but from the wrong part of the plant and in not significant dosage to be effective in any case.
Flawed study. But great for proving that in as yet an unquantified way the human does possess self healing abilities even if falsely triggered.

 

[seamonkey]

Here's one for you, given a 6 ft 24 gauge chord with a constant AC load of say 3 amps, how long do you think it would take an electron entering the cable to exit? Now what if it was DC?

Here's a hint, with DC it would take over 10 years for the average election that enters the cable to leave it.

People don't understand power cables, this is why shysters take advantage of them. We don't need more government watch dogs. I don't want to pay for government or laws. We need to smarten up consumers.

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

I wouldn't think the company would still be in business if there isn't some truth to the claims.

Quite the contrary--some people make money from all sorts of customers who have irrational beliefs in horoscopes, fortune telling, etc.

I also don't think you'd have all these these positive comments from famous artists. Did anyone here even bother to read them?

It seems the less the famous artists know about power cords, the more likely they are to make positive comments.

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

"I'm right, you're wrong you must admit you're wrong and I'm right."

That's interesting. What I try to get across is that you or me or anyone can learn stuff too. Even technical stuff about the things we use. It's not the exclusive property of engineers and scientists; benefiting from it only requires an open mind.

 

[bongomania]

The idea that only honest businesses stay in business is flat out preposterous.

The idea that famous/successful musicians who endorse things "must know what they're talking about" is quaint and idealistic, but wrong.

 

[bongomania]

Let's say Joe Famousbassist has a strong personal faith in the religion of Hoolooboolooism. (I don't want to offend any particular bassists or religions.) Joe feels the spirit of Hooloobooloo inside him, guiding him, offering him words of encouragement, sustaining and supporting him through difficult times, and bringing him a sense of peace. Naturally he tells other people about his beautiful and strong experience with Hooloobooloo. It is very real for him.

Joe is famous and successful, and he has been practicing Hoolooboolooism for many years, so he knows what he's talking about. So people are inclined to take his word, and try out Hooloobooloo.

But wait--in order to try Hooloobooloo, you have to buy something that costs $150, or even more for the "Pro" version.

Hmmm.... If I have to shell out $150, I want to know beforehand that I'm really going to get some positive experience with Hooloobooloo. I can't afford to toss that much money toward a warm fuzzy feeling--I want to know that it works for more than just Joe Famousbassist, I want to know that it works equally well for anyone who tries it.

How do I do that? If I don't want to take it on faith, then I have to come up with some sort of method of determining empirically that Hooloobooloo is real.

Sounds like a job for science.

"But wait", you say, "Hooloobooloo is real for me, I hear its voice and feel its guiding hand, and it is real even though it can't be measured; and besides, Hooloobooloo is like music, it's an intuitive expression, a feeling, a subtle sensation that can't be pinned down in a laboratory test."

Fine, great, more power to you. But I'm not paying big bucks on that sort of basis.

You say "fine, nobody is forcing you to buy anything"... but we come back around to the beginning of the circle, where I'm a huge admirer of Joe Famousbassist, and he says I should try it out. So should I? And around we go.

 

[Mark Reccord]

I don't think your brain is tricking you to believe anything. (You hear a difference in your tone) You can't say it any clearer then that and I can't see why anyone would even challenge you on that fact!

I can immediately tell a difference in my rig if something is changed, or when my strings are going dead etc. If it sounds better, that would even be easier to detect. If we all actually tried this cord then this debate would be valid.

The only thing I will attest to is after playing a few sets I might lose some of my highs do to ear fatigue.

What you guys are missing here is that sometimes the suggestion that something has changed is enough for you to perceive a change even if one wasn't made. No one is immune to this. Not you, not me, not Jauqo, not Bob Clearmountain, etc. I've seen it in action a million times with plenty of folks with excellent ears.

This phenomenon does not in any way diminish one's ability to discern very fine real changes in sound. Like I said earlier in the thread, I could reliably detect the difference a slightly out-of-tolerance resistor made in an electronic crossover I designed. However, I will freely admit that in that same amp, I fooled myself into hearing changes I made in a part of the circuit that I forgot I had bypassed (so changing resistors had no effect). I eventually figured it out but it took a while. I've done monitors for artists who asked for a little more this or that when the whole system was at the edge of going ballistically unstable and heard an improvement by me pretending to turn a knob.

The other factor to consider is that environmental conditions can affect sound quite a lot especially when very subtle changes are involved. A little air current here, not having your head exactly in the same position there, etc. all affect your perception of sound.

Again, I'm not casting aspersions on your or Jauqo's or anyone else's hearing and listening abilities at all, but to deny the possibility that sometimes your auditory perception can be affected by psychology is just silly.

 

[Paullee01]

Mark what you and Bob have said does make a lot of sense.

Mark when are you expecting delivery of your cord? I am going to hang on this thread awaiting your findings.

 

[Faderoktopus]

HAHAHAHA!!! That's a great story.

Paullee, if BC does sell it, I hope they sell a ton. Dave LaRue is my bro who taught me for 3 years. And I'm beginning to not care if anyone still wants to buy them. If people can read this thread and still want to buy them or believe they work, there's nothing I can do about it. Hell, maybe I'll go looking around my yard for stuff that I can sell to people who buy into it. Would anyone be interested in my Magic Miller Reference Quality Pro Dog Turds? They really make all the difference in the sound of your gear. Just hang them from your neck when you play.

Magic Miller Quality Pro Cat Turds are also available for your guitarist friends.

I'll take two. Do you have them for drop D players?

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

What you guys are missing here is that sometimes the suggestion that something has changed is enough for you to perceive a change even if one wasn't made. No one is immune to this. Not you, not me, not Jauqo, not Bob Clearmountain, etc. I've seen it in action a million times with plenty of folks with excellent ears.

This phenomenon does not in any way diminish one's ability to discern very fine real changes in sound. Like I said earlier in the thread, I could reliably detect the difference a slightly out-of-tolerance resistor made in an electronic crossover I designed. However, I will freely admit that in that same amp, I fooled myself into hearing changes I made in a part of the circuit that I forgot I had bypassed (so changing resistors had no effect). I eventually figured it out but it took a while. I've done monitors for artists who asked for a little more this or that when the whole system was at the edge of going ballistically unstable and heard an improvement by me pretending to turn a knob.

The other factor to consider is that environmental conditions can affect sound quite a lot especially when very subtle changes are involved. A little air current here, not having your head exactly in the same position there, etc. all affect your perception of sound.

Again, I'm not casting aspersions on your or Jauqo's or anyone else's hearing and listening abilities at all, but to deny the possibility that sometimes your auditory perception can be affected by psychology is just silly.

+1 to that, Mark.

 

[Faderoktopus]

Actually, according to the guys making the Grand illusion cable, the ESP cord is crap. It suffers from all the inherent limitations of being round. Guess a couple of buyers are heading for refunds now, huh?

Nice thread, long but entertaining.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Actually, according to the guys making the Grand illusion cable, the ESP cord is crap.

I have less of a problem with the Grand Illusion and others of that ilk. I'm pretty sure that anyone who can drop $2k and more on a cord has way more money than anyone should rightfully have, so I'm not going to shed tears when they get conned out of some of it. It's cheating working stiffs out of their hard earned pay with false promises that bothers me.

 

[Jared Lash]

Jimmy I mention the part about people spending 4,5,6K on a bass only to make a point that they are happy while some feel that the bass is not worth it.

And remember Jimmy, I did mention that sometimes those who have spent that much for a bass later feel like it wasn't worth what they paid.

Not really an apt comparison though. Questioning the value of really high end basses is a matter of economics and buyer decision making. That discussion has been done over and over on Talkbass. Basic economic theory states that at a certain point you are getting less value for each individual dollar spent on a product whether it be a bass, car, bottle of scotch or whatever. If a consumer thinks those additional gains are worth the cost then it is "worth it" to them.

That's very different from a product making unsubstantiated (and in my mind impossible) claims. If Fodera said that buying and playing one of their basses would make you two inches taller I'd have the same feeling as I do about the ESP cord.

 

[bongomania]

Exactly! Plus, Fodera is not lying when they say their basses sound great, because it is entirely plausible that they can sound great. It is in the nature of vibrating wood and metal that it can have a wide range of sonic qualities. These power cords, otoh, have no properties that can plausibly be said to sound like anything at all. So their makers and sellers must prove their claims, or be accused of lying.

 

[seamonkey]

Actually, according to the guys making the Grand illusion cable, the ESP cord is crap. It suffers from all the inherent limitations of being round. Guess a couple of buyers are heading for refunds now, huh?

Nice thread, long but entertaining.

Did they happen to do any measurements to prove their claims?

 

[JimmyM]

I have less of a problem with the Grand Illusion and others of that ilk. I'm pretty sure that anyone who can drop $2k and more on a cord has way more money than anyone should rightfully have, so I'm not going to shed tears when they get conned out of some of it. It's cheating working stiffs out of their hard earned pay with false promises that bothers me.

I'm against it no matter who gets conned, even if they have way more money than sense. As Geddy Lee once said, "Ten bucks is ten bucks."