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Esperanza Spalding

#42
bassdoubler said:
Agreed....it's really not fair to compare Tal to Esperanza as they both play different instruments as well as musical styles, however, my reference was more geared toward how people respond to female bassists nowadays. Not to toot my own horn or anything, but by early high school I was already a full blown professional musician making a TON of money for a 14 year old kid....maybe not playing with Joe Levano, but don't think that having a cute girl playing bass isn't the novelty Joe was going for....much like Tal on the road with Jeff Beck....he could have picked anybody he wanted but he chose to go with something more jaw dropping....a girl that can play. I'm not saying Esperanza can't play, I've just done the whole university double bass degree thing, and after seeing her technique on bass I think it's a crime to put this girl in any kind of teaching position, let alone in the collegiate level, LET ALONE BERKLEE! But like I said, give her 4-5 years of studying with someone great who knows technique and I will kindly take my words back.
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Well bass doubler I also have done the university degree thing AND went on to gig all around the world for the last 21 years(sigh just realized how long it's been)and you know what I have found out? It may not seem like it now to you but the degree is just the beginning not the end.Students at the uni level are sometimes preoccupied with someones technique because they have been spending so much time getting it together them self that they don't listen to the music someone makes.As for joe lovano going for the novelty of a cute girl on bass.....Sorry i just don't see it.Tal's situation is a bit different because from what I understand Vinnie calutia (sorry Vinnie, I know I killed your last name)had a lot to do with with Her coming to Jeff's attention
 
#43
Gotta jump in here, I studied with her for 3 semesters and she's wicked smart. She never picked up her bass at my lessons, and she had me doing stuff like taking every ii-V lick from Moment's Notice and play each one over the whole song, doing "vomit drills" on upright which apparently is playing arpeggios up and down one string as fast as you can. She also turned me on to the Rabbath upright technique for left hand, even though she doesn't do it herself. Anyway, she is at least as qualified to teach as anyone else at Berklee, and she's worthy of a good amount of attention for her playing, singing, and composing regardless of her sex or age.
 
#44
periodical said:
Gotta jump in here, I studied with her for 3 semesters and she's wicked smart. She never picked up her bass at my lessons, and she had me doing stuff like taking every ii-V lick from Moment's Notice and play each one over the whole song, doing "vomit drills" on upright which apparently is playing arpeggios up and down one string as fast as you can. She also turned me on to the Rabbath upright technique for left hand, even though she doesn't do it herself. Anyway, she is at least as qualified to teach as anyone else at Berklee, and she's worthy of a good amount of attention for her playing, singing, and composing regardless of her sex or age.
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It doesn't matter how good someone thinks her music sounds, or whether her playing is good or bad. All of that is subjective. I'm saying she isn't qualified to be a collegiate level professor, let alone at a music school with a reputation for some heavy hitting faculty. A teacher that doesn't demonstrate things for the student is horrible, in my opinion, and how can anyone teach a technique they don't employ themselves? Sorry, but I'm dead firm on this....Esperanza has no business teaching at Berklee, let alone any college. I also may have a different respect for the rest of Berklee's faculty now....
 
#46
bassdoubler said:
It doesn't matter how good someone thinks her music sounds, or whether her playing is good or bad. All of that is subjective. I'm saying she isn't qualified to be a collegiate level professor, let alone at a music school with a reputation for some heavy hitting faculty. A teacher that doesn't demonstrate things for the student is horrible, in my opinion, and how can anyone teach a technique they don't employ themselves? Sorry, but I'm dead firm on this....Esperanza has no business teaching at Berklee, let alone any college. I also may have a different respect for the rest of Berklee's faculty now....
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I have only limited training on double bass and have not seriously touched one in thirty years. I do think that Ms. Spaulding is very talented and deserving of recognition. I am also very skeptical of those who claim she got a break because of her looks. Way too often, when someone the "wrong" gender, race, or whatever, gets a break, too many people overlook their real achievements and say they have gotten what they have because of some sort of tokenism.
 
#48
This thing about looks etc helping one get a gig is a NO WIN situation. First off, if she was unactractive but had the same skills, most of us would say, "I like what she is doing, and her music and all, but she is bad on the eyes"

I think females will catch hell one way or the other. She is either too cute and that is why she go the gig, or she is bad on the eyes so I can listen to her but thats it.

As for technique, is there a 100 percent correct way to play a DB? I know this argument exists in the electric bass world as well. Then you get guys who do all kind of weird playing position wise, and they put out good music, we listen, we buy, we go to their clinics, and move on with the rest of our life. Just curious if we are not throwing out the baby with the bathwater here.
 
#49
bassdoubler said:
A teacher that doesn't demonstrate things for the student is horrible, in my opinion, and how can anyone teach a technique they don't employ themselves? Sorry, but I'm dead firm on this....Esperanza has no business teaching at Berklee, let alone any college. I also may have a different respect for the rest of Berklee's faculty now....
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Our esteemed DB brother Ed Fuqua studies with Joe Solomon (who in turn studied with Lennie Tristano) and he spends most of his time at the piano, only occasionally playing Ed's bass to demonstrate something.

It seems Esperanza might spend time more on concepts than technique.
 
#51
Alan Vorse said:
Our esteemed DB brother Ed Fuqua studies with Joe Solomon (who in turn studied with Lennie Tristano) and he spends most of his time at the piano, only occasionally playing Ed's bass to demonstrate something.

It seems Esperanza might spend time more on concepts than technique.
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Exactly. I have also studied with drummers, saxophonists, a trumpet player and pianists. None of them demonstrated anything on the double bass. And guess what, I learned something! :DThese were all college professors btw.
 
#52
bassdoubler said:
A teacher that doesn't demonstrate things for the student is horrible, in my opinion, and how can anyone teach a technique they don't employ themselves?
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I must say I disagree entirely. Understanding and execution of a technique are not the same, and one can exist without the other very easily. There are plenty of people who know how to play "thumb pop" on an electric but can't explain what they're doing or why it works, and a similar number of people who can quote chapter-and-verse on the subject but can't make it happen on the instrument if their lives depended on it.

If the above statement is true, then what's more important: whether Esperanza can demonstrate something, or that she can get her students to demonstrate it? She's there to teach, not show (also two different concepts).

Doubtless there will be some students that will fail to thrive under her private instruction. But this is the case for any new teacher. (Herein lies a point for your side - there will always be a lack of experience in a 24 year old musician/instructor, no matter how you slice it.) Esperanza will learn from her failures as a teacher and be better for it. I'm sure Pat Metheny was susceptible to the same "green-ness" as an instructor - remember, he was teaching there when he was 19, IIRC.

Oftentimes during lessons (I have a load of 25-30 students), I won't play a note - it's not necessary. Rather, I explain to my students what I want them to play, forcing them to go through the process in their head ("D major scale, starting w/ pinky on the E string, finish with the arpeggio"). I've even heard of instructors who refuse to allow their STUDENTS to bring their instrument to the lesson, considering it a "distraction".

I guess what I'm saying is that there are a myriad of teaching techniques; some won't work for you, as many don't work for me (TAB!:mad:). Her inexperience aside, however, please be wary of condemning someone for touting Pepsi when you know Coke is better. :D
 
#53
bassdoubler said:
Sorry, but I'm dead firm on this....Esperanza has no business teaching at Berklee, let alone any college. I also may have a different respect for the rest of Berklee's faculty now....
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Well, she got her BM at Berklee- so maybe they felt a product of their school is worthy of teaching there! If not, it doesn't say much about the program. "We're only going to teach you enough to teach at lesser schools!"

She’s one of 16 bass teachers there, so I would think that the students are getting many different perspectives.

BTW, the chair of the bass department, Rich Appleman, only has a BM from Berklee listed on his academic resume! So either Berklee's been a sham this whole time, and you're just finding that out, or she's actually worthy of teaching at her alma mater.
 
#55
Alan Vorse said:
Our esteemed DB brother Ed Fuqua studies with Joe Solomon (who in turn studied with Lennie Tristano) and he spends most of his time at the piano, only occasionally playing Ed's bass to demonstrate something.

It seems Esperanza might spend time more on concepts than technique.
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I'm a pretty poor musician, but I do teach teach at college for a living, and have done so for close to twenty years. In that time, I have observed many teachers of many disciplines, and I can say that approaches to teaching very widely. The only thing that really matters are the gains in learning shown by students.
 
#56
Dr. Cheese said:
I'm a pretty poor musician, but I do teach teach at college for a living, and have done so for close to twenty years. In that time, I have observed many teachers of many disciplines, and I can say that approaches to teaching very widely. The only thing that really matters are the gains in learning shown by students.
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Couldn't have said it better myself. Which means, to be perfectly fair, that Esperanza's talents as a teacher have yet to be properly determined - she's still wet behind the ears! I do believe, however, that we can expect great things from her. And it wouldn't matter what she looks like, really - people who are doing what they love and loving what they do simply can't help but be beautiful. :)
 
#57
bassdoubler said:
It doesn't matter how good someone thinks her music sounds, or whether her playing is good or bad. All of that is subjective. I'm saying she isn't qualified to be a collegiate level professor, let alone at a music school with a reputation for some heavy hitting faculty. A teacher that doesn't demonstrate things for the student is horrible, in my opinion, and how can anyone teach a technique they don't employ themselves? Sorry, but I'm dead firm on this....Esperanza has no business teaching at Berklee, let alone any college. I also may have a different respect for the rest of Berklee's faculty now....
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As stated by others She has a BM FROM Berklee,so they think that she can further what she learned there to others. I also teach and with many of my more advanced students I never actually play the bass,I play piano because their technique is already established. And I work with people on playing with a pick although I mostly play finger style so it can be done.Bassdoubler I guess my thing with you is this;Your coming off as a bit of a "Hater" who feels like they should be getting the same aclaim because you feel your better than Esperanza. you have a very interesting sense of entitlement for some so young hopfully this doesn't make you bitter as I have seen happen to others who share that attitude.
 
#59
zombywoof5050 said:
I gotta side with bassdoubler, I read her bio, but she'll get there for sure..
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Ok, maybe I jumped the gun a little bit, I just read another bio on her and found out she had graduated from Berklee (I didn't catch that in the first bio I read on her).

But, regarding this part of her bio..

"..she was miserable in high school, so she dropped out, passed her GED, and enrolled at a local university. Not much happier there, her bass teacher convinced her to apply to Berklee. She was awarded a full scholarship.."

I don't quite get how a high school dropout with a GED gets a full scholarship? I must be pretty naive, but I guess if you're a good enough player they will give you a scholarship? I thought people that got scholarships were people that excelled all through school, rather than dropping out.

Anyway, she is very talented and can only get better, and I wish her all the success she deserves. I hope anything I said has not offended her or anyone else.
 

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