Indeed, I think when some people talk about perceived "tension," it is often stiffness to which they are reacting. Leaving all the physics aside, EPs sure can feel stiff and some (including me) have perceived them to become stiffer with age.
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Double Bass Evah Pirazzi strings megathread part III
- Thread starter Chris Fitzgerald
- Start date
Indeed, I think when some people talk about perceived "tension," it is often stiffness to which they are reacting. Leaving all the physics aside, EPs sure can feel stiff and some (including me) have perceived them to become stiffer with age.
OK, almost a year after the last post, I'm chiming in on this thread because I just tried Evahs.
However, I come from a kind of mixed up perspective. The last couple of years, I've used Spirocore Weichs. I'm a jazz player and almost never bow, so I'm only talking about walking bass lines with side of finger pull, and soloing with more of the tips of the fingers.
I've been struggling with the thinness of the G string, which also translates to boominess in the low end of my bass. I've tried lots of different EQ methods to balance the top and bottom end tone. I usually still end up with the G string just being too thin. Sometimes I've had success using a high pass filter on my signal, or combining the pickup with a mic, but the more variables you introduce, the more you multiply your headaches.
OK, I finally decided step one was to lessen the bottom on the E and A, so I got a couple of Spirocore Solo strings, and kept my old Weich D and G. It helped, but the tension difference was distracting. The solos were surprisingly playable. I expected them to be slinkier.
So I was going to just bite the bullet and get solo Spirocores for the D and G. Then I decided on Evahs. After some consideration, I decided on solo gauge because I figured it would blend with the Spirocores better.
Got them on, and everything was good. All going according to plan. The diameter of the Evah was quite a bit bigger than that of the Spirocore solos or Weichs, and the D was the same gauge as the Weich I was replacing. Except the tension was less and easier to play. Nice and loud, and seemingly fat.
I had a gig that night, and was able to test them out with a group. I immediately flashed back a couple of years to when I used Obligatos for about 3 months.
With the Obligatos, the seem loud and warm at first. However, playing jazz both soloing and walking, I eventually decided they don't have the same kind of headroom as Spirocores. By that I mean when they seem to speak and maintain their town and medium and medium loud volumes, but when you really dig in, they kind of top out and the tone actually thins out some. It's not hard to imagine if you think about strumming a nylon string guitar with a pick and a nice med volume, and everything sounds great, but if you really dig in and start hammering, it just starts to sound like string noise.
But really the balance was OK, and none of the strings were really broken in. However, and here's something I could use some feedback on:
The overall tone of the Evahs seem to be warmer, and much more interesting and colorful. I can definitely hear more overtones in the Evahs even though I would describe the overall tone to be less bright than the Spirocores. And while they do have kind of a nice attack, the tone seems slightly more transparent than the Spirocores.
The spirocores are less interesting sounding, but seem to have a little more impact, which might be what translates into boominess in the low E and A. Maybe slightly like the difference between the tone of an electric bass and an upright. The electric isn't as warm, or percussive, but it has something the upright doesn't, and vice versa.
I'm curious if anyone has an similar experience or noticed anything like that.
Second, I'm going to let them break in, but I will probably at some point order Evah solo E and A. However, I'm wondering if anyone has tried the solos at concert pitch and also their Weichs and how they compare growl and sustain wise. From what I've been reading the Weichs have gotten favorable comments about the growl and sustain, but I haven't seem many comments about that when it comes to the solos.
And eventually I'll probably end up trying a set of Evah Weichs, but I'm really enjoying the nice feel of the solos at concert pitch. Are the Weichs very much stiffer?
OK, then, I know that's a lot of rambling.
Lincoln
However, I come from a kind of mixed up perspective. The last couple of years, I've used Spirocore Weichs. I'm a jazz player and almost never bow, so I'm only talking about walking bass lines with side of finger pull, and soloing with more of the tips of the fingers.
I've been struggling with the thinness of the G string, which also translates to boominess in the low end of my bass. I've tried lots of different EQ methods to balance the top and bottom end tone. I usually still end up with the G string just being too thin. Sometimes I've had success using a high pass filter on my signal, or combining the pickup with a mic, but the more variables you introduce, the more you multiply your headaches.
OK, I finally decided step one was to lessen the bottom on the E and A, so I got a couple of Spirocore Solo strings, and kept my old Weich D and G. It helped, but the tension difference was distracting. The solos were surprisingly playable. I expected them to be slinkier.
So I was going to just bite the bullet and get solo Spirocores for the D and G. Then I decided on Evahs. After some consideration, I decided on solo gauge because I figured it would blend with the Spirocores better.
Got them on, and everything was good. All going according to plan. The diameter of the Evah was quite a bit bigger than that of the Spirocore solos or Weichs, and the D was the same gauge as the Weich I was replacing. Except the tension was less and easier to play. Nice and loud, and seemingly fat.
I had a gig that night, and was able to test them out with a group. I immediately flashed back a couple of years to when I used Obligatos for about 3 months.
With the Obligatos, the seem loud and warm at first. However, playing jazz both soloing and walking, I eventually decided they don't have the same kind of headroom as Spirocores. By that I mean when they seem to speak and maintain their town and medium and medium loud volumes, but when you really dig in, they kind of top out and the tone actually thins out some. It's not hard to imagine if you think about strumming a nylon string guitar with a pick and a nice med volume, and everything sounds great, but if you really dig in and start hammering, it just starts to sound like string noise.
But really the balance was OK, and none of the strings were really broken in. However, and here's something I could use some feedback on:
The overall tone of the Evahs seem to be warmer, and much more interesting and colorful. I can definitely hear more overtones in the Evahs even though I would describe the overall tone to be less bright than the Spirocores. And while they do have kind of a nice attack, the tone seems slightly more transparent than the Spirocores.
The spirocores are less interesting sounding, but seem to have a little more impact, which might be what translates into boominess in the low E and A. Maybe slightly like the difference between the tone of an electric bass and an upright. The electric isn't as warm, or percussive, but it has something the upright doesn't, and vice versa.
I'm curious if anyone has an similar experience or noticed anything like that.
Second, I'm going to let them break in, but I will probably at some point order Evah solo E and A. However, I'm wondering if anyone has tried the solos at concert pitch and also their Weichs and how they compare growl and sustain wise. From what I've been reading the Weichs have gotten favorable comments about the growl and sustain, but I haven't seem many comments about that when it comes to the solos.
And eventually I'll probably end up trying a set of Evah Weichs, but I'm really enjoying the nice feel of the solos at concert pitch. Are the Weichs very much stiffer?
OK, then, I know that's a lot of rambling.
Lincoln
The evah weichs have a great jazz sound, but a little less resistance than the Spiro weichs. I've had them on one of my basses for well over a year. I have spiro weichs on my other bass so it's very easy for me to compare. I'm replacing the evahs with a bowing string (for reasons I won't bore you with).
The evahs sound really great, and bow well.
Two things I don't like:
1) not enough resistance for jazz pizz solos
2) a bit slow under the bow.
The evahs sound really great, and bow well.
Two things I don't like:
1) not enough resistance for jazz pizz solos
2) a bit slow under the bow.
Once again, with strings-- given different basses, hands, and preferences, YMMV. What follows, relates to my experience and my preferences. How well anyone's generalizes is not clear. Before going further, I will say that I suspect that you're over-thinking all of this. My view these days is that all strings demand compromise in one area or another. Find a set that works for the most part and then go and play. Your playing style will adapt to the strings to some extent. If you're looking for a set of strings, including mixes, that you will find to be "just right" all of the time, then you will end up spending a ton of $$$ and being frustrated.
I've always found Spiro weichs to be a bit too weak for my tastes. That has much to do with my playing style. My bass wears Spiro mitts. There is no high-pass filter on my bass. Nor are there any tone controls. Really, I looked. Okay, I'm being facetious.
My point is that I think you're wise to try and get the acoustic sound right and not try to solve perceived problems with electronics (realizing the practical reality that you are playing amplified).
I've posted about this here at least 10 times over the years. Oblis sound great in the living room but they give up on the bandstand. You dig in, they give up. Whether or not this is an issue depends on one's playing style. The fact that you had this experience seems to provide important information about your playing style and preferences.
Our experiences sure differ here. No other string I've played ever had more impact than the Evah mediums or weichs. I've found Spiros to have the more rich overtone profile as compared to Evahs. Your description is confusing as you say you hear more overtones with the Evahs but that the Spiros are brighter. Usually, more overtones translates to brighter.
Solos, weichs, mixed sets, etc. Really, I think you'll drive yourself crazy. You're heading right down the dreaded string vortex. I'm trying to help. Reading everything you wrote, it seems that you're not happy with a set of Spiro weichs (thin top end, boomy low end). You do seem to like the Evahs. Here's my advice. Get a full set of Evah weichs. Put them on your bass. Play them for a few months. This will allow the strings, the bass, your hands, and your ears to all settle and get to know each other.
Or, you can continue down your current path and then I can suggest a few good therapists in your area.
I've always found Spiro weichs to be a bit too weak for my tastes. That has much to do with my playing style. My bass wears Spiro mitts. There is no high-pass filter on my bass. Nor are there any tone controls. Really, I looked. Okay, I'm being facetious.
My point is that I think you're wise to try and get the acoustic sound right and not try to solve perceived problems with electronics (realizing the practical reality that you are playing amplified).I've posted about this here at least 10 times over the years. Oblis sound great in the living room but they give up on the bandstand. You dig in, they give up. Whether or not this is an issue depends on one's playing style. The fact that you had this experience seems to provide important information about your playing style and preferences.
Our experiences sure differ here. No other string I've played ever had more impact than the Evah mediums or weichs. I've found Spiros to have the more rich overtone profile as compared to Evahs. Your description is confusing as you say you hear more overtones with the Evahs but that the Spiros are brighter. Usually, more overtones translates to brighter.
Solos, weichs, mixed sets, etc. Really, I think you'll drive yourself crazy. You're heading right down the dreaded string vortex. I'm trying to help. Reading everything you wrote, it seems that you're not happy with a set of Spiro weichs (thin top end, boomy low end). You do seem to like the Evahs. Here's my advice. Get a full set of Evah weichs. Put them on your bass. Play them for a few months. This will allow the strings, the bass, your hands, and your ears to all settle and get to know each other.
Or, you can continue down your current path and then I can suggest a few good therapists in your area.
Agreed. Its a dead end man. You will spend a grand on strings and then wind up with what you started with in the first place.
That said, I really like the Evah Weichs. They are clear and full sounding. Great in thumb position and they last a long time. Spirocores are always going to be the standard for a jazz/pizz string I think. With them you just need to find the right set to fit your bass tension wise. My favorite setup is Mittel E with Weich A D G. After spending a fortune on strings in the last 10 years I ended up settling once and for all on Spirocores a couple of years ago.
That said, I really like the Evah Weichs. They are clear and full sounding. Great in thumb position and they last a long time. Spirocores are always going to be the standard for a jazz/pizz string I think. With them you just need to find the right set to fit your bass tension wise. My favorite setup is Mittel E with Weich A D G. After spending a fortune on strings in the last 10 years I ended up settling once and for all on Spirocores a couple of years ago.
AMJBASS If you dont mind me asking why did you finally decide on the Spiros? I currently use them (the medium tenision) but would like to try the Evahs. I am a jazz player but have just started orchestra playing so these seem like a good string for me. I just dont want to throw down $200+ on these strings and regret it.
have Helicore Hybrid Mediums on both my basses currently. I wasn't a fan of these in the past, but they darken up nicely and sound pretty good right out of the package. For crossover playing(jazz/orchestra), the Evah Pirazzi Weich get my vote however. Spirocores are the gold standard Jazz string IMO. I always go back to them, but on my main bass the Helicores just have the right feel/tone that I have been looking for right now.
sam:
Tough to find any info on the exact tension of the EP Weichs but there have been postings here that they are somewhere between Spiro Weichs ( 60.6 lbs for the G 66.1 for the E) and Mittels ( 67.2 lbs for the G to 72.8 for the E).
Velvet Garbos are all the same tension....25 kilograms ( approx 55 lbs for each string).
Yep, the tension is close but sound wise the Evah Regulars are a better match with gut (the tension was WAY off the charts though.)
-Jeff
From what I've read hear in TB velvet garbos (or the less expensive innovation super silvers) are the best match for D and G guts.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
EP regulars are painful. Obligatos are much easier to play. They feel and sound closer to gut in my experience.
Agreed.
After chasing this phantom for a while I've come to the conclusion that there is no real good match for me. There is always something lacking in the mix... either bow response or too much tension or really different timbre or... (insert complaint here.)
At this point I'd rather play strings that are matched be it all gut or steel or synthetics. My personal choice is all gut.
-Jeff
Thanks guys. I will research the obligatos and super silvers some more now.
Jeff, I agree with you on the all gut set. There is no way in 100 years that I'll go back to an all steel set for jazz. It's been about 15 years. But it's recent frustrations with unwinding Wound gut E&A strings that have brought me to this thread. We have real hot dry summers here and a fair share of humidity throughout the year and wound guts have always been a problem for me.
I still think that the ultimate sound IMHO is a set of two plain, and two wound guts, be it whatever maker/tension/gauge works best on your particular bass. But then longevity and budget etc come into it and sometimes I find myself browsing the synthetic string threads once again.
This has prompted a recent exploration into the fine art of gut string winding which I am researching and to be honest quite fascinated with.
It's a long road ahead but I'm having fun and hope to one day be successfully rewinding some of my strings.
But for now I need a somewhat stable setup with my E&A. Both the types of Evahs seem to be pretty popular but it seems they're not the best match with gut D&G unfortunately. This was never meant to be easy was it!
Jeff, I agree with you on the all gut set. There is no way in 100 years that I'll go back to an all steel set for jazz. It's been about 15 years. But it's recent frustrations with unwinding Wound gut E&A strings that have brought me to this thread. We have real hot dry summers here and a fair share of humidity throughout the year and wound guts have always been a problem for me.
I still think that the ultimate sound IMHO is a set of two plain, and two wound guts, be it whatever maker/tension/gauge works best on your particular bass. But then longevity and budget etc come into it and sometimes I find myself browsing the synthetic string threads once again.
This has prompted a recent exploration into the fine art of gut string winding which I am researching and to be honest quite fascinated with.
It's a long road ahead but I'm having fun and hope to one day be successfully rewinding some of my strings.
But for now I need a somewhat stable setup with my E&A. Both the types of Evahs seem to be pretty popular but it seems they're not the best match with gut D&G unfortunately. This was never meant to be easy was it!
I hear you Sam, I have the same problem here in California. I play a fair amount outside and hot dry days turning into cool foggy nights is pretty brutal on wound gut. My solution at this point is to play the crap out of the Lenzner wound E's & A's then just replace them. I average 2~3 sets a year or so. The good news is that the Dlugolecki plain D & G are going on six years now and show now signs of giving up any time soon.
Good Luck!!
-J
Good Luck!!
-J
For my Efrano (medium) G and D naked guts the Innovation Silver Slaps are a very good match in tension. But the Efranos are rather low tension (even if they are called medium) for a gut string.
For better bowing downtuned Innovation Braided Solos (from the 140BS set) may work as well. The tension should be similar to the Silver Slaps.
I'm not happy with the Efrano wound E for pizz, almost no sustain, the wound A is a bit better and at least usable.
For better bowing downtuned Innovation Braided Solos (from the 140BS set) may work as well. The tension should be similar to the Silver Slaps.
I'm not happy with the Efrano wound E for pizz, almost no sustain, the wound A is a bit better and at least usable.
I don't think I want anything terribly low tension, those types of synthetic strings are for slapping and not supposed to give long sustain and be bowable.
Just for the record I don't really like Eudoxas or Olivs, they're a bit dead sounding and don't growl. I prefer the round wound sound.
So this is the sort of thing I'm looking for in a synthetic core steel string.
I don't mind if the tension is a bit more than the plain gut D, most strings (including wound guts) are tighter than this.
Still interested in Evahs but more so as a full set on my old bass and set up mainly for arco.
Not interested in silver slaps or super silvers. Needs to be bowable and have a bit more mids/clarity to the sound which I think will help amplify better, from what I can gather reading about their characteristics.
Leaning towards obligatos but some people have hinted they don't last terribly long. I've ruled out animas for the many complaints I've read about them.
I've got some used garbos on the E&A now. They're ok but I can tell the windings won't hold forever.
One day I will hopefully successfully rewind some strings worth talking about
Thanks guys for your input
Just for the record I don't really like Eudoxas or Olivs, they're a bit dead sounding and don't growl. I prefer the round wound sound.
So this is the sort of thing I'm looking for in a synthetic core steel string.
I don't mind if the tension is a bit more than the plain gut D, most strings (including wound guts) are tighter than this.
Still interested in Evahs but more so as a full set on my old bass and set up mainly for arco.
Not interested in silver slaps or super silvers. Needs to be bowable and have a bit more mids/clarity to the sound which I think will help amplify better, from what I can gather reading about their characteristics.
Leaning towards obligatos but some people have hinted they don't last terribly long. I've ruled out animas for the many complaints I've read about them.
I've got some used garbos on the E&A now. They're ok but I can tell the windings won't hold forever.
One day I will hopefully successfully rewind some strings worth talking about
Thanks guys for your input
