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Everyone has to be rich now??
- Thread starter Cadillac_Mike
- Start date
Yep. But when I was my kids' age, you could find something for much less than a grand, and gas was 99cents/gal.
In 1971 a new VW was $1,600. Couldn't ever afford that.
I used to buy $100 cars, $12 registration, $60 insurance deposit. You were on the road.
To follow up on this, to be truly information fluent in these times, a person must be adept in information-seeking print, online databases, and the internet (e.g., Google). Otherwise they will have holes in their game. In terms of what they cover, there is some overlap among these three information silos (for those who understand Venn diagrams), But one of these will do something better than the other two, and in some instances it will do something the other two can't do at all.
It is like a three-legged milking stool. In theory you want each leg to be of equal length; but if you are a student, one leg is going to be a bit longer than the others, depending on your assignment. The weakness with student internet searching is that all they know in most cases is Google Basic, which is great for killing time or simply being entertained but largely useless for serious research. They largely are ignorant of Google Scholar and Google Books, and they have no idea that Basic, Scholar, and Books have advanced search modes as well. This is where Google really comes into its own as a complement and supplement to online and library catalog searching.
The Pauline axiom that nothing is good or evil in itself but in how it is used holds here. The problem with people who are all digital and ignore libraries is that they miss things that might be useful to them. The same can be true of those who are all library and ignore digital. It would be like a nineteenth century general going into battle and leaving his cavalry back in camp.
When I was a kid gas was 29 cents a gallon and you could still find cars from the 1930s on the used lots.
I started working at my parent’s business at age 11. I loved being the one they sent into tight spaces. I learned to drive in an old 50s era aviation fuel truck at age 12. The 70s. We did have indoor plumbing. Maybe we shouldn’t send them into mines but kids are capable of doing and contributing more than we let them.
Do you think someone could get the equivalent of an English lit degree with a good reading list, some commentaries, the internet and a library these days? Would it require a multi thousand dollar degree program?
Someone like me, who as an extrovert thrives in a classroom student/teacher interactive environment, no way.
For my son, who is the opposite of me in this regard, it's possible.
-Mike
On graduation day, they email you a PDF of your degree which you can download then print.
Because "free at the point of service" is too much to type out over and over again. That's what I meant by that, though. Your greater point stands, though, so I'll defer to you on that.
I apologize - I must not be making my argument very clearly. I don't think that a college degree should be required as a means to make sure everyone has the kind of basic education you mention in your post. To me, college should be about specialized education, where you can go deep into the classics or south/central Asian pre-industrial history or the sociology of American music subcultures or particle physics or bioengineering or whatever the student finds interesting. I would definitely be in favor of more trade schools for electrical, plumbing, mechanics etc as well.
As such, I agree that fixing the K-12 system should take priority. We should definitely start there. I'm speaking more as an idealist when I say that college should be free (but not required) for the student.
Nice. I'm definitely telling my wife (a former special ed teacher) this story.
Agree but I'm not super jazzed about the recent bills in some states to allow for kids to work nights in meat processing plants...
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Whatever salary you make, live below your means and invest early in life. Even if it’s $50 a month.
Great advice that's simply impossible for lots of people.
Perhaps government funded is more accurate. Or making college part of public education.
In my state the large majority of my property tax goes to k-12. Also regular and special sales taxes. Public colleges are also funded with tax and lottery scholarships. Here’s my Alma mater for 2 semesters. It’s one of the premier universities in the country. I’m not smart enough to get in there now:
I’m thinking that $20k difference between in-state and out-of-state tuition is coming from the state government, which means it’s already almost 2/3 public funded. if the student has good enough grades the in-state tuition can be completely funded by lottery scholarship. My daughter did this, the living cost were on us.
My son is living at home and going to the local for half that. He also had dual enrollment opportunities in high school to get college credits for high school class. In his case it backfired because he wasn’t ready for it and now the low grades are on his college transcript, keeping him from getting the lottery scholarships. But now he’s ready, knows the value and the cost of education, he’s interning and already has an offer for when he graduates.
My other son (he has special circumstances that I won’t get into) went to the local technical college, got his GED and took classes in a welding program that were all fully funded by the state, including living expenses stipend. Like the old bass player joke about learning G on the first lesson, see on the second and not showing up for the third because he had a gig, my son didn’t finish because he had enough skills to get hired before he did.The technical college is an awesome thing with campuses in various location statewide spearhead by local community, industrial and educational leaders because they weren’t getting high school graduate with the skills to go to work.
My point is, a lot of college and other education is already publicly funded and in many cases, “free”.
Sounds terrible. Which reminds me of another proverb which applies in all discussion economics or otherwise,
“He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.”
I don’t know the specifics of this case and don’t feel like looking it up but off the top of my head I’d have to know what’s meant by kids and working at night. I’d also say that my own work environment from age 11 until 18 and beyond would be considered hazardous by any objective standard. One of my earliest work memories is going out to fuel a plane and the old pilot didn’t think I was old enough to do it so I handed him the hose and he started fueling it with one hand and lighting a cigarette with the other. The whole meat packing plant might be a good thing. Should kids not be exposed to it for some reason? Seems tame in comparison to other parts of the curriculums. Or, like you say it could be terrible.
A couple of other quotes, I forgot to put on my earlier list. The first is more of an attitude about economics:
“I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances”. Paul again. Not to say ambition and the desire to improve your and/or other’s circumstances is wrong, but counting your blessings, or privileges, as the kids like to say, can help you achieve those goals.
And I’m embarrassed to have previously omitted the Golden Rule, which explains a lot of economics:
“He who hath the gold maketh the rule”. My father.
Also;
Learn the Rule of 72 (preferably as early as you can)
It's basic math, but - more importantly - if you comprehend what it means over time, it can be a life-changer. It was for me.
Investing was nothing more than a Math problem to me.
Remove any "speculation" (market timing - "hot stock of the day") - if you just take what the market gives you over time, which historically, is very impressive -as close to a "sure" thing as you'll ever get - again, all based on simple math.
Houses could be smaller because us kids weren`t allowed to be in them during daylight hours. Back in the 70`s we had to make our own fun by playing outside. Mom & Dad didn`t tolerate their kids being inside when it was sunny out.
I may be way off here, but it appears no one wants to work for what it took most parents their entire working years to accumulate. We live in a society that begs instant gratification.
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
This. It was impossible for me to save much (whether that was for an emergency fund or an IRA) in the first several years after graduating college. Multiple part time day gigs with no benefits, and hustling music gigs paid in cash didn't leave a ton left over after taxes and necessary expenses... and stuff was a lot cheaper then (including rent) where I am, versus now. Then 2008 happened and I had to bounce around again to try and find steady work, while still playing gigs too. Couldn't save for retirement during those lean years. I am grateful every day for the working situation I have now. I can never fully recover those lost years, but I have made diligent progress.
I find that saying 'whatever salary you make, live below your means and invest early' is too simplistic and without nuance. If you have enough coming in where you can pay bills, have free/liquid cash for all the day to day expenses outside of bills/rent, etc. and THEN still have some left over to invest/save.... yeah. Do it. It's not always possible. It's more important to ensure you're not out of free cash after all your bills are paid than to be 'cash poor' just to fund an IRA.... and I am a HUGE proponent of saving and investing. I'm also pragmatic. IMO and YMMV.
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JazznFunk
Supporting Member
That's a parenting issue and doesn't speak at all to a housing or economic issue.
'No one wants to work for what it took most parents their entire working years to accumulate' is a tired trope. We live in a society where the basics of the game have changed, and even the working environment and compensation packages our parents got simply do not exist anymore. Americans are working harder and working more hours than ever.... it's the pay and compensation/benefits packages which have stagnated or diminished. People are paying more out of pocket for things that used to be 100% covered. Working only 9-5 hours in a corporate job was the norm, and those positions were well-compensated with solid retirement benefits, healthcare, stock options, and more. Those are the things which existed more readily for previous generations than they do now, and they further reduce how much money current workers take home.... while working longer hours with fewer boundaries. That's a documented fact.
For some people, it is impossible. But from my perspective, there are a great many people who could be more financially secure with a modest income if only they knew how to live more frugally.
Mainstream America seems to be addicted to living beyond its means. Families earning lower middle class salaries have jet skis that they trailer to their cabin on the lake with a new ¾ ton 4x4 pickup truck.
They work themselves sick at multiple jobs just so they can afford to use those jet skis a few times a year. *
I suspect the pandemic may have provoked some rethinking of the American dream. A lot of people had to drastically downsize and make do with alot less income and found they could be at least as happy with fewer possessions and with smaller homes.
That's how I chose to live my adult life. I rent small apartments and drive used cars. I have very few possessions but the ones I do have are important to me (mostly music related).
This is not a lifestyle for everybody. If it makes you happy to work long hours to make good money so you can afford nice things, then I'm not going to criticize.
But living well by living frugally is a much more viable option than many realize.
* Actual family I know. Yes, this is anecdotal, but it really is a very common situation.
