Everyone has to be rich now??

[WG Plum]

Terry Pratchett:

The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.

Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.

But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.

This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness.

 

[MuseChaser]

For some people, it is impossible. But from my perspective, there are a great many people who could be more financially secure with a modest income if only they knew how to live more frugally.
Mainstream America seems to be addicted to living beyond its means. Families earning lower middle class salaries have jet skis that they trailer to their cabin on the lake with a new ¾ ton 4x4 pickup truck.

They work themselves sick at multiple jobs just so they can afford to use those jet skis a few times a year. *

I suspect the pandemic may have provoked some rethinking of the American dream. A lot of people had to drastically downsize and make do with alot less income and found they could be at least as happy with fewer possessions and with smaller homes.

That's how I chose to live my adult life. I rent small apartments and drive used cars. I have very few possessions but the ones I do have are important to me (mostly music related).

This is not a lifestyle for everybody. If it makes you happy to work long hours to make good money so you can afford nice things, then I'm not going to criticize.

But living well by living frugally is a much more viable option than many realize.





* Actual family I know. Yes, this is anecdotal, but it really is a very common situation.

Absolutely dead-on accurate and very well stated. I was about to type almost exactly the same thing, and I had alluded to these concepts in my earlier digitally-diarrhetic post. What folks consider to be "minimum requirements" for a decent life have changed drastically.

Thank you

 

[FretRiff]

In my state the large majority of my property tax goes to k-12.

What state apportions at least 51% of individual property taxes to K-12 education? Really curious.

 

[JazznFunk]

What state apportions at least 51% of individual property taxes to K-12 education? Really curious.

I can tell you it's NOT North Carolina.

 

[FRoss6788]

What state apportions at least 51% of individual property taxes to K-12 education? Really curious.

None of them.

Some people simply want zero property tax going to public education, they have an issue with being part of a society.

 

[JazznFunk]

Absolutely dead-on accurate and very well stated. I was about to type almost exactly the same thing, and I had alluded to these concepts in my earlier digitally-diarrhetic post. What folks consider to be "minimum requirements" for a decent life have changed drastically.

Thank you

But how then does one account for the fact that the bare-bones 'minimum requirements' are exponentially more expensive than they used to be as well? There are also modern 'minimum requirements' expected for a lot of jobs which dovetail into daily living needs - cell phone, computer capable of doing remote work (or job hunting), broadband internet access, etc. You'd have to get into specifics, but I'd argue that demonizing people for having different 'minimum requirements' as part of their budget now, versus what was considered 'minimum' even 25 or 30 years ago is an attempt to scapegoat those who *can't* afford those things as being a cause of a larger systemic societal shift in technology requirements for basic connectivity and productivity. I'd agree on some level that plenty of people are too obsessed with having to have the newest/best model of iPhone or whatever gadget it is in question when they should concentrate on other things, or be content with a years old phone (like I am). It's also worth noting how much things like cell phones are now. The days of free phones when you renew a contract are GONE. Just food for thought.

 

[FretRiff]

I can tell you it's NOT North Carolina.

Ha. It’s one thing to have a majority of education funds come from property taxes (in Maine it’s 97%, for example) but that’s quite different from the idea that a majority of a person’s taxes go to education. Property taxes go to lots of things but I’m not familiar with a state where the majority of a person’s property taxes go just to k-12.

 

[FRoss6788]

But how then does one account for the fact that the bare-bones 'minimum requirements' are exponentially more expensive than they used to be as well? There are also modern 'minimum requirements' expected for a lot of jobs which dovetail into daily living needs - cell phone, computer capable of doing remote work (or job hunting), broadband internet access, etc. You'd have to get into specifics, but I'd argue that demonizing people for having different 'minimum requirements' as part of their budget than what was considered 'minimum' even 25 or 30 years ago is an attempt to scapegoat those who can't afford those things as being a cause of a larger systemic societal shift in technology requirements for basic connectivity and productivity. I'd agree on some level that plenty of people are too obsessed with having to have the newest/best model of iPhone or whatever gadget it is in question when they should concentrate on other things, or be content with a years old phone (like I am). It's also worth noting how much things like cell phones are now. The days of free phones when you renew a contract are GONE. Just food for thought.

Precisely.

People are expected to log in and respond to work emails while on vacation.

Unfortunately true and unbelievable.

 

[JazznFunk]

Precisely.

People are expected to log in and respond to work emails while on vacation.

Unfortunately true and unbelievable.

Yep. And often people are required to access work emails on their PERSONAL PHONE. I went through that in a previous position. At my current job, there was a brief time where it was suggested to me that I needed to do that, and I said if they wanted me to access work emails off hours, they could provide me with a phone and service they paid for as a business expense. I would not add it to my personal phone, nor would it be with me when I was off the clock on vacation. Never heard anything else about it... and in reality there is nothing related to my job or responsibilities that could (or needs to be) remedied outside of the office. Sometimes you just have to set the boundary.

 

[Stewie26]

Whatever salary you make, live below your means and invest early in life. Even if it’s $50 a month.

Agreed!. My wife is much smarter than me when it comes to finances. Shortly after we were married, she would spend a lot of time cutting grocery coupons from newspapers. With the money she saved she would then invest for our future retirement. One day after I came home from work, she told me she bought some stock in a company called Apple. My reply was, "Why are you investing in an agricultural company?" That was around 1981 or so. Little did I know.

 

[FretRiff]

Precisely.

People are expected to log in and respond to work emails while on vacation.

Unfortunately true and unbelievable.

France has had a formal "right to disconnect" law since 2017. Italy, Spain and Belgium have similar legislation.

New York and California both have had proposed bills introduced that duplicate that right, but the bills have stalled.

But if you’re an hourly worker in the U.S., you’re entitled to compensation for after-hours work, including emails.

For salaried employees it’s surprising how many people ‘forget’ their phones in their chargers on weekends.

 

[sleddogn]

None of them.

Some people simply want zero property tax going to public education, they have an issue with being part of a society.

Here in Lex, ky, we're having a battle with the school board raising taxes almost yearly. They are at odds with our state AG who says the latest raise was illegally done. We have no kids and have paid our fair share for others kids to get an education. Enough is enough imo.... Tax those who's kids use public education more than those who don't, pretty simple

 

[JazznFunk]

Here in Lex, ky, we're having a battle with the school board raising taxes almost yearly. They are at odds with our state AG who says the latest raise was illegally done. We have no kids and have paid our fair share for others kids to get an education. Enough is enough imo.... Tax those who's kids use public education more than those who don't, pretty simple

How does a school board have the authority to levy a tax? Usually that has to come down to a vote, after being approved as a ballot measure by a County commission or other similar body.

 

[FRoss6788]

Here in Lex, ky, we're having a battle with the school board raising taxes almost yearly. They are at odds with our state AG who says the latest raise was illegally done. We have no kids and have paid our fair share for others kids to get an education. Enough is enough imo.... Tax those who's kids use public education more than those who don't, pretty simple

Thank you, exactly the attitude I was talking about.

 

[nutdog]

What state apportions at least 51% of individual property taxes to K-12 education? Really curious.

Dude, I thought my Alma mater would give it away. No way I was going out of state. I wouldn’t try to mislead you but it turns out none of my property tax goes to the great state of GA. It looks like all local. I can’t find the actual bill right now (which is significantly higher due to property reassessment) but by my calculation just shy of 70%.

We have a 6% income tax, a 4% state sales tax, a 3% county tax, part of which is educational for new buildings we have to build because people keep coming. A host of other taxes. I’m not sure specifically which go to Ed but my wife’s teacher salary is mostly from the state. I ain’t posting her paystub. That 60% difference between in state and out of state college tuition is essentially what GA is pitching in on top of prek-12. If someone figures it out beyond all that let me know but please do it with figures and not platitudes of an education unto myself that costed nothing. I’m laying out personal info on a public forum, it seems the least you could do.

 

[sleddogn]

Thank you, exactly the attitude I was talking about.

Exactly a response from someone who doesn't know the details.....Yes i'm a team player, no i'm not for yearly tax raises. Yes i have no kids and am tired of yearly raises....

 

[sleddogn]

How does a school board have the authority to levy a tax? Usually that has to come down to a vote, after being approved as a ballot measure by a County commission or other similar body.

Our county school board has an insane amount of power to tax without any type of vote. They just snuck in a new occupational tax without anyone knowing and bam, big news story here in last 48 hrs. I take exception to fross's "see" post above, very lame.

 

[sleddogn]

Some people simply want zero property tax going to public education, they have an issue with being part of a society.

BS take and you know it. Some people like to make generalizations that make them feel good or better without knowing much...

 

[definenredefine]

Perhaps government funded is more accurate. Or making college part of public education.

In my state the large majority of my property tax goes to k-12. Also regular and special sales taxes. Public colleges are also funded with tax and lottery scholarships. Here’s my Alma mater for 2 semesters. It’s one of the premier universities in the country. I’m not smart enough to get in there now:



View attachment 7243617

I’m thinking that $20k difference between in-state and out-of-state tuition is coming from the state government, which means it’s already almost 2/3 public funded. if the student has good enough grades the in-state tuition can be completely funded by lottery scholarship. My daughter did this, the living cost were on us.

My son is living at home and going to the local for half that. He also had dual enrollment opportunities in high school to get college credits for high school class. In his case it backfired because he wasn’t ready for it and now the low grades are on his college transcript, keeping him from getting the lottery scholarships. But now he’s ready, knows the value and the cost of education, he’s interning and already has an offer for when he graduates.

My other son (he has special circumstances that I won’t get into) went to the local technical college, got his GED and took classes in a welding program that were all fully funded by the state, including living expenses stipend. Like the old bass player joke about learning G on the first lesson, see on the second and not showing up for the third because he had a gig, my son didn’t finish because he had enough skills to get hired before he did.The technical college is an awesome thing with campuses in various location statewide spearhead by local community, industrial and educational leaders because they weren’t getting high school graduate with the skills to go to work.

My point is, a lot of college and other education is already publicly funded and in many cases, “free”.


Sounds terrible. Which reminds me of another proverb which applies in all discussion economics or otherwise,

“He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.”

I don’t know the specifics of this case and don’t feel like looking it up but off the top of my head I’d have to know what’s meant by kids and working at night. I’d also say that my own work environment from age 11 until 18 and beyond would be considered hazardous by any objective standard. One of my earliest work memories is going out to fuel a plane and the old pilot didn’t think I was old enough to do it so I handed him the hose and he started fueling it with one hand and lighting a cigarette with the other. The whole meat packing plant might be a good thing. Should kids not be exposed to it for some reason? Seems tame in comparison to other parts of the curriculums. Or, like you say it could be terrible.

A couple of other quotes, I forgot to put on my earlier list. The first is more of an attitude about economics:

“I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances”. Paul again. Not to say ambition and the desire to improve your and/or other’s circumstances is wrong, but counting your blessings, or privileges, as the kids like to say, can help you achieve those goals.

And I’m embarrassed to have previously omitted the Golden Rule, which explains a lot of economics:

“He who hath the gold maketh the rule”. My father.

So I actually went to Ga Tech for 2 years, then finished my BA at UGA. At the time, Hope covered my tuition. I was happy for it. I think that should be the norm for more people.

I'm glad the local tech school where you are is free for students...I'm not sure if that's true for Chattahoochee Tech where I grew up. Hopefully it is.

And often people are required to access work emails on their PERSONAL PHONE.

I refuse to do this.

I said if they wanted me to access work emails off hours, they could provide me with a phone and service they paid for as a business expense.

...and this is the right attitude.

 

[friskinator]

Great advice that's simply impossible for lots of people.

Correct. What happens when you live frugally with only the essentials and still don't have enough money to meet requirements? This is the case for more people than we realize. You can't invest if you can barely make rent. And everyone can't live in a small town where things are cheaper. It just isn't possible.

As many have said in other posts, life is flat out more expensive now than even 20 years ago. And it's not going to get better.