• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Everyone has to be rich now??

A lot of this is spot on. Offering this, again, as the spouse of an 18 year veteran teacher (6th and 7th grades). The kids themselves can definitely be a challenge, and some classes are better than others, but the main thing my wife deals with is a lack of solid options on the part of administration to properly discipline and remove the kids who are causing the most problems so the kids who want to learn and are good kids - which is honestly the majority - can do that. She loves the kids, and loves teaching when she actually gets to teach. Parents who are blissfully unaware of how bad their kids are in school, away from them, is a big issue. That starts at home.... where accountability and character begin. I was raised to be the same person in public, away from home, as I was at home. Of course, I screwed that up on several occasions, but not to any irreversible degree. But what I received was proper discipline and guidance - and the resources and desire just aren't there on numerous levels anymore to instill that in kids these days.

Back to the main issue - the thing that almost made my wife quit on several occasions, outside of the pay, was simply not being supported by admin. That would make all of the parent and student issues easier to swallow.

My daughter is just finishing her student teaching for elementary and special education, and she has already highlighted this as one of the major challenges. Just one kid can disrupt the learning of everyone else.

By the way, this is not limited to kids. I've spent most of my career teaching at law schools, both full- and part-time, and even in that context we sometimes have disruptive students who compromise the environment for everybody. I had such a student last semester, and it was a challenge. Last year, one student was so disruptive in some classes that seating charts needed to be altered, but thankfully in my class she was fine.

This reminds me of a meeting at school when my kids were little. Some of the teachers described the issues they confronted dealing with various types of students and behavior, how they tried to motivate the students and command attention, etc. All of it was identical to the issues I faced as a full-time law school professor. Zero difference.

My, some sustained two-day chippiness here. :) To be a good teacher requires more than command of the material. Good communication skills are essential. One of the search committees to find my successor had one candidate whose communication skills were so poor that the people viewing the presentation immediately knew there was no way that person could communicate clearly with faculty or students, never mind the committee. A second committee had to be formed.

I agree with you about the "not there to teach but to do research," and that trend has worsened with the years. For higher education I believe there should be two tenure tracks, each with their own promotion standards: one for those who want to excel in teaching and one for those who want to excel in research. It is very rare to find college or university faculty who are good at both teaching and research. No man can serve two masters.

I taught full-time at a law school for 15 years, and we had two tracks, though the pure teaching track did not lead to tenure. It's a low-ranked school that's sometimes had challenges with bar passage, so it needs to emphasize teaching. Several of us, myself included, were pure teaching faculty who were not expected to produce scholarship. We didn't have tenure, but we had long-term contracts, and some of us had high-level administrative roles too. (For example, I was an assistant dean of students alongside my teaching.) One of the most beloved professors there, who has frequently won the best teaching award at graduation, is pure teaching non-tenure faculty. Scholarship and teaching are different skills, though in the law school context they usually overlap to some extent.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WG Plum
As far as the funding issue goes, this is not mysterious hidden information. The BIG report on it all (on a state-by-state basis) is here. If you look at p. 43 of the report linked, Georgia is somewhat above average in its appropriations for public higher ed: 14th out of the 50 states + DC. Looks to be about $12k or $13k per FTE (Full-Time Equivalent student). By the way, that chart shows you what I'm talking about for my own state, NH: dead last, at $4629/FTE.

Back in my ISO9000 days, the point was always made that it's "an audit of the system, not the people". If your system (in this case the public educational system) can't work with employees who fall on the normal distribution of both commitment and ability, it's a bad system. Defining a system that requires all its employees to be +2 standard deviations in both commitment and talent, is to define a system guaranteed to fail.

Instead of making it so only the aforementioned +2 SD individuals will be able to overcome the systematic barriers to success and teach students the curriculum, how about removing the systematic barriers so the ordinary chap can teach school?
I spent my life avoiding words like ISO9000 but maybe I might have liked it.
Thanks for pointing me to it. I'm not a numbers or stats guy, so I've got some uncertainty exactly what each chart and stat really means in the big picture. When I click around, I'm seeing a number of exceptions and definitions, which I'm not sure of the meaning of across the board, but it does seem like the stats are intended to convey particular information for people in the field of academic administration. For example, "total education revenue" excludes "tuition revenue used for capital and debt service." "Education revenues" seems to entail a more limited body of spending than the total budget of a university. And, clearly, it's a profile for the state as a whole, including two-year colleges, where there seems to be more of the burden carried by state and local taxes than the four-year schools (kinda ironic that you hear a lot of "go to community college, it's cheaper," often from the same people who want more of the education cost carried by students. There's a reason it's cheaper!).

Whatever the exact meaning of the numbers, I wouldn't use them to falsify GA Tech's own statement of its finances. I would definitely say that Georgia is (rightly) more supportive of its students than NH is. Its student share of education revenues (whatever exactly is included or excluded in that) is 28% (though sadly up from 18% in 1980), where NH's is 68%, up from 54%.
I can’t figure out how to move that top quote down here. Hrod…you and I go way back. I’m a charts and stats guy. Seen a few, made a few, not the best, not the worst. I’m not the type of guy that thinks info on page 43 of a 78 page (I think) report on a website from some group I’ve never heard of is not mysterious information. I respect your knowledge, experience and wisdom in education matters so I clicked but I perused the whole report not just 43. I found it confusing for the same reasons you mentioned. The chart I posted is the top chart on the GA page on that site. All that stuff is big and bold. Here it is again:

IMG_0464.webp


I hate doing math in public but I think if you divide the state and local by the FTE you get $12.8k per enrollment. That’s between 12&13 just like you said before. A little more 13ish. Only now it’s “I'm seeing a number of exceptions and definitions, which I'm not sure of the meaning of across the board, but it does seem like the stats are intended to convey particular information for people in the field of academic administration. For example, "total education revenue" excludes "tuition revenue used for capital and debt service." "Education revenues" seems to entail a more limited body of spending than the total budget of a university. ”

Would you agree now that maybe it’s a little mysterious?

6.5 billion in revenue there. 73% is state. AI says The lottery paid one billion in fiscal 2025 for hope and other financial aid programs. That money goes direct to tuition. Is it on the tuition side or the state funding side? I don’t know. But if tuition, that puts state funding at almost 90%. Where’s the federal money? And private donations? I’m not sure. And the lottery put 1.5B into PreK.

BTW none of that is local. Only state funding according to the report. But there are significant local resources including money being pumped into our local college. It really is a community college.

And yes, I’m talking about the entire state. Surely we can agree tech and UGA would be major funding outliers. But most GA kids don’t go to those schools. Kennesaw State is the largest school in the state. I told my kids to go to the local college. It’s a good one.

The reason I brought up tech was I went there and you can get a world class education there for what I believe to be a very reasonable cost even if you have to pay full tuition, which a lot of folks don’t. Either way, most of it will be “free”.

AI also says Tech is almost as good as Caltech and MIT. I bet we’d kick their ass in football.
My, some sustained two-day chippiness here. :) To be a good teacher requires more than command of the material. Good communication skills are essential. One of the search committees to find my successor had one candidate whose communication skills were so poor that the people viewing the presentation immediately knew there was no way that person could communicate clearly with faculty or students, never mind the committee. A second committee had to be formed.

I agree with you about the "not there to teach but to do research," and that trend has worsened with the years. For higher education I believe there should be two tenure tracks, each with their own promotion standards: one for those who want to excel in teaching and one for those who want to excel in research. It is very rare to find college or university faculty who are good at both teaching and research. No man can serve two masters.
I looked up chippiness. It doesn’t sound complimentary but you got the smiley face so I’m going let it lie. You’re the 4th or 5th person to tell me knowledge doesn’t mean you can teach. To all of you I say thank you for your educational efforts. To anyone feeling the need to tell me again, I got it.

Now, have you considered the premise that someone could be knowledgeable, experienced and a good teacher?

And my home's in Alabama,
Where common sense cannot be found.
Could you find a football?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Winslow
It’s been decades since my wife or I have attended college so my thoughts on this may be dated. That said, we started by both attending a 2 year community college which was free. The only direct cost was we had to purchase the book(s) required by the teacher for each class. Many times we were able to purchased used books. Does this education opportunity still exist Today
Yes, but the book thing is better.

Our local high has dual enrollment with the local college. If you can cut it, you can graduate high school with 2 years college credit. Attending classes at the college. “Free”. It’s a 4 year state college but that sounds pretty communityish to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stewie26
Now, have you considered the premise that someone could be knowledgeable, experienced and a good teacher?
Where in any of my comments have I said one could not? But if one cannot communicate clearly then that knowledge and experience cannot be passed on. But the pre-job education is where one acquires the knowledge and experience. But a lot of things, poor communication, lack of empathy, too much administrative paperwork leading to burnout, can also prevent one from being a good teacher.

And I have a lot of friends at my former university -- including some who are at the "Distinguished" rank -- who are retiring or considering retiring early, because in their (and my) eyes education, especially at the higer level, has ceased being a mission and has become and industry. For many AI is the last straw.
 
Where in any of my comments have I said one could not?
Where did I say that having knowledge made you a good teacher?
But if one cannot communicate clearly then that knowledge and experience cannot be passed on. But the pre-job education is where one acquires the knowledge and experience.But if one cannot communicate clearly then that knowledge and experience cannot be passed on. But the pre-job education is where one acquires the knowledge and experience.
What? I’ve gotten way more knowledge and experience post job.

Look I never said I would be the best teacher. I don’t even consider myself a good engineer. Fdeck, agedhorse, greenboy, my father…those guys are real engineers. Which might make me better at teaching engineering than them. I don’t think I was a good flight instructor at first. I don’t really remember a time when I couldn’t fly so I wasn’t really sure how I learned, but I had that fresh certificate and I was what you got when you came to the airport at that time. I’ve since learned a great deal about communication and people in general. I was a much better instructor by the time I stopped. Mainly due to my airline time with a multitude of good and bad teachers when I was outside my comfort zone. I taught two water treatment sessions yesterday to what some folks here might call uneducated people. It was in a hot yarn mill boiler room. Two one hour sessions. One of them told me it was kinda fun when it was over. When I say I think I could be a good teacher it’s because a lot of people have told me I am. And I’m sure there are some who thought I wasn’t.

When I was in high school no less than 4 degreed educators were disciplined for making it with students. I may not be the best teacher but I won’t try to screw your daughter (or son).

To you and everyone here, I’ve had a lot of interaction with several of you over the years. I’ve been trying to use numbers and charts and data and sources to talk about educational economics. But it seems like a lot of your responses are rooted in emotion. Over the years I’ve come to know which teams some of you like to pull for. I feel like the emotional response is due to you maybe thinking I’m on another team. Now I know I have been combative in the past here in OT. I’m trying to be better at it but it’s really hard for me not to be a smartass. My 6th grade teacher told me I was cynical and asinine. She was right.

But I haven’t said anything in this thread about how education should be funded. I don’t know the answer. All the free ed for everyone who wanted it would be the best solution. But it’s not feasible. That’s a word I learned at engineering school. You can’t have or even don’t necessarily want the best solution. It’s almost always unrealistic and too costly. You want the best feasible solution. For example, the best way to eliminate the problem of highway fatalities is we all stop driving. It will instantly cut driving deaths 100%. We all want that right? It’s free! It will save the environment. Is it feasible? Why not? Don’t you care about children and the future?

Another thing I learned. At tech there was a thing called word. It was collections of old tests and assignments. The frats had the best word. If you couldn’t get word before a test you were at a disadvantage. Tech could change the test questions and some of them did. But a lot were identical quarter to quarter. So if you were taking a test and had word you might be taking a test you studied directly from an hour before. Some might say it’s unfair but here’s the engineering lesson: if you have a problem, look around and see if someone else already had that problem and fixed it before you spend a bunch of time and effort creating a new solution.

US education has many faults and much room for improvement. But the big system is actually 50 different systems that cross paths. The good thing is it allows for different solutions to be tried and tested in small areas. If something works in one system it can be replicated in others. If the others are willing to learn and change. I’m not saying GA higher ed funding is the gold standard but if it’s better than your state, a good engineer looking to solve your problems would probably recommend copying easily observable proven programs a little at time over instant wholesale economic reordering.

We could probably even learn something from the other countries. I kinda wish the benevolent German educational overlords had told me in the fifth grade what I was going to be when I grew up. Then maybe I wouldn’t still be trying to figure it out.
 
Last edited:
Has the "common core " math fallen to this yet?
When my kids started school, there was a huge amount of controversy over "common core" math. Of course the "new media" were making it out to be some kind of evil conspiracy. So I decided to look it up.

It turns out most states published their Common Core curricula online, and so I chose one state at random and took a look. Frankly, it looked totally mainstream. And my kids learned exactly the same subjects, in the same order, as I did (with a couple of exceptions -- the district I grew up in taught set theory and proofs, which were what made math come alive for me).

Math is a weird topic, because most people agree that children should learn it, but don't agree on what it is, or why, and they've forgotten most of their school math, so any tiny change in how it's taught looks like some freaky new thing. Also, there's been a "crisis" in math education for decades. It was never taught better than it's being taught now.
 
When my kids started school, there was a huge amount of controversy over "common core" math. Of course the "new media" were making it out to be some kind of evil conspiracy. So I decided to look it up.

It turns out most states published their Common Core curricula online, and so I chose one state at random and took a look. Frankly, it looked totally mainstream. And my kids learned exactly the same subjects, in the same order, as I did (with a couple of exceptions -- the district I grew up in taught set theory and proofs, which were what made math come alive for me).

Math is a weird topic, because most people agree that children should learn it, but don't agree on what it is, or why, and they've forgotten most of their school math, so any tiny change in how it's taught looks like some freaky new thing. Also, there's been a "crisis" in math education for decades. It was never taught better than it's being taught now.
I remember that controversy. The one method that seemed to draw a lot of ire essentially involved breaking the problems, and solving the chunks to get an answer. I realized that's how I've always done things, even though I don't remember being taught that way. So...don't really know what the big deal is.
 
When my kids started school, there was a huge amount of controversy over "common core" math. Of course the "new media" were making it out to be some kind of evil conspiracy. So I decided to look it up.

It turns out most states published their Common Core curricula online, and so I chose one state at random and took a look. Frankly, it looked totally mainstream. And my kids learned exactly the same subjects, in the same order, as I did (with a couple of exceptions -- the district I grew up in taught set theory and proofs, which were what made math come alive for me).

Math is a weird topic, because most people agree that children should learn it, but don't agree on what it is, or why, and they've forgotten most of their school math, so any tiny change in how it's taught looks like some freaky new thing. Also, there's been a "crisis" in math education for decades. It was never taught better than it's being taught now.
It’s my understanding common core was an attempt to standardize the standards for math and English without proprosiing specific teaching methods. People don’t need to be educated in stirring up controversy. We seem to born experts.

My grandmother taught high school math. She taught both my parents. The methods may not have changed much but the teaching environment sure has.

My wife teaches English to speakers of other languages. No shortage of students in this little town. When she started it was called ESOL, English for speakers of other languages. They dropped the O and it became ESL. Now I think it’s ELL, English Language Learners. Same stuff. If we kept the same name for a long time someone would be out of a job.
 
In ‘21, I retired from teaching (public elementary school)…spent most of my 21 years teaching 4th grade. A second career—at 38, our 3 yr old daughter died suddenly (complications from cerebral palsy)…life changing of course, and prompted my career change.

I’d been commuting an hour each way, working my @@s off, dealing with state budgets/legislation; 5-200+ staff reporting directly or indirectly to me (depending on the position)…had been thinking I was doing the “right thing” providing for my family. Our son was almost 5, and realized that I’d spent very little time with him to date. So…went in search of a more meaningful day, and a shorter commute.

Went back to school—Master’s in Education + fully cleared multi-subject teaching credential—was hired/asked to stay on after student teaching—set foot in my first classroom at age 40. I’ve purposely never taught where I live…I used the valuable 30 min (each way) commute time, to pre-play/replay the day…decompress returning home.

Spent my 21 years in three schools…

Yr 1-3…highly affluent/maximum parent support/newly built school

Yr 4-10…extremely low income/high crime/inner city-type surroundings/minimal parent support

Yr 11-21…low income, safe/country surroundings, many students/parents feeling very “entitled”…moderate support

Immediately found my organizational mgmt expertise highly useful; could quickly decipher what’s important (vs time-wasting) and for those first 3 year’s, I thought managing a class of 34 (9 year old’s)…was a piece of cake! Ha! Didn’t realize at the time…my very actively involved, well-educated parents were scaring my kids into good school behavior, and “cleaning up” my (ineffective at times) teaching at night! Enjoyed my time there, but small district, budget cuts (and my low seniority) sent me looking for another district.

I walked into a new (large) district HR with my degree’s/credential paperwork, 3-years experience, and ask them if I could teach at their most difficult/challenging school…the one they have a hard time keeping staff there? lol immediately hired!

First week my car was key’d; student threw his desk at me; gun shots heard while on the playground—rushing hundreds of kids (crawling) to safety. Also that first week, a young girl came to me in tears…saying she couldn’t finish (my not very meaningful) homework assignment…there’d been a loud party/drug raid at her apartment complex, she’d been using a flashlight in her closet trying to do the homework, and the batteries went dead. I looked at her—knew it was legit. Have long understood I had a privileged upbringing…but after that week, I realized some schools didn’t work like I thought they all worked. Yea, it was my 4th year, but I became a legit teacher that week (as well as detective, social worker, and life-coach)…but DID find a meaningful day. : )

Fortunately, I had a Principal that “got me”…understood the plight of these kids, and allowed me great latitude to be creative with my teaching methods—ended with the highest test score growth at our school that year.

State of my 4th grade class there:

•25% class turnover within the school year; reading ability range=K to 8th; math ability range=1st to 4th; only 6 (of 34) parents involved; 12+ were unreachable by phone, 1 living out of a car.

•regularly tracked down MIA parents on my time—met them on their work breaks (Target, Donut shop, wherever) for quick conferences/signature…most were working 2-3 jobs. A lot of frustrated, angry kids.

•for those parents who dropped their kid off, I’d wait out front of school—literally walking backwards in the car line with a clip board (driver window rolled down) 1-2 min conference/signature…

•one student’s mom was a “street worker” (super nice student, who always told me about yet another “uncle” that came to visit) Each semester, I’d literally go meet mom at her street location, for a short conference and signature. Btw, she was the nicest mom—tough life story—was doing her best to take good care of her 2 kids (both respectful kids, always well-fed/well-kept appearance) She felt embarrassed to come around school…very appreciative that I’d take the time to communicate with her.

•offered unpaid 90-min/after-school tutoring, 4 days/week.

Unfortunately, District decided to close that school, so moved to my last school for the 11-21 yrs…

Eh…3rd school was just ok. Parents were involved, but would often scream at/blame teachers…didn’t take any responsibility for their kids poor behavior, etc….all the issues mentioned in earlier posts here. A lot of feeling “entitled” behavior; still the wide variance of skill levels within the class, but less class turnover.

No question I would’ve stayed at Yr 4-10 school…forever! The kids longed to be kids, and often expressed their life-circumstance frustration in many different ways. Most of the lack of parent involvement, was due to heavy parent work schedules—multiple low paying jobs. My 9-year student may be taking care of 3+ siblings (by themselves) after school, until they all go to bed. Most wore the same clothes all week—just got dirtier each day. 6+ students walked in my room having not eaten that morning (arrived too late for free breakfast)… I fed my entire class daily, to disguise the students who really needed something in their stomach. If I wanted eager learner’s, I couldn’t ignore it…easy to see the behavior difference after eating.

Angry behavior? We always have a choice how to respond. Beginning of Yr 4, I gave a writing assignment to tell me about themselves, etc. Read/edited them overnight, and returned them for rewrite the following day. One young man (long history of behavior issues) wrote about me, calling me every name…f-word multiple times, etc. I purposely hadn’t edited his letter yet, but walked it over to his seat…got down to ear level, and quietly whispered “This is one of the best pieces of writing I’ve ever seen…you make some really great points. Let’s go over it together. When you said f__ you, Mr K…it’s spelled incorrectly. You need to add a “c”…so let’s put an insert mark with a “c” above it, then add a “c” on your next draft, to make it a four-letter word.” Tears started running down his face, and he eventually asked if he could just start over? Obviously, I said “sure”… I received back two writings—(1) a fabulous letter of apology (beautifully written—he was very talented) and (2) the assignment. Zero behavior issues from him, the rest of the year (accept when I had to use a sub teacher ;))

The real social work aspects weren’t addressed in my degree/certificate program. But, when you get in your classroom and close the door…these issues are real, can’t be ignored, if you’re expecting student success. Beyond food…a new overnight family crises, child custody fighting, worried about their (next week) housing future, no sleep…. I was called into court for my testimony dozens of times, to describe a child’s behavior/performance—lawyers seeking any day (or week) correlation to the parent custody schedule.

If their “head space” (and stomach) aren’t in the right place..:the “lid” on their brain isn’t open to receive any wisdom from me…that was for sure.

At my last school, I was quite surprised at how often parents would tell me I didn’t know ___! about teaching their kid, even in my final years—with a great reputation around our school clientele. Taking the “high-road” when responding, was difficult many times…….but on the flip side, a surprising number of parent-teacher conferences were spent answering sincere parent questions—about HOW to parent their kid (vs discussing their child’s report card…)

In the end…kids are still kids at heart—some deal with a lot of stress; old math still works—educator’s are always trying to reinvent the wheel though; old reading strategies still work—more educator’s trying to reinvent the freak’n wheel; but writing…looked more like texting.

I chose to ignore the politics, funding issues, who’s to blame, etc…just dealt with each student’s academics and given home-life situation as I encountered…their reality. Fully admit, coming into the education game later in life—with more perspective, and financial foundation…was advantageous.

A lot of very talented young teachers struggling with classroom management, minimal experience to date, no financial resources, afraid/aren’t in a position to simply ignore or question WHY we’re being asked to do something that’s been effectively working…a crazy new way?! : )
 
Last edited:
In ‘21, I retired from teaching (public elementary school)…spent most of my 21 years teaching 4th grade. A second career—at 38, our 3 yr old daughter died suddenly (complications from cerebral palsy)…life changing of course, and prompted my career change.

I’d been commuting an hour each way, working my @@s off, dealing with state budgets/legislation; 5-200+ staff reporting directly or indirectly to me (depending on the position)…had been thinking I was doing the “right thing” providing for my family. Our son was almost 5, and realized that I’d spent very little time with him to date. So…went in search of a more meaningful day, and a shorter commute.

Went back to school—Master’s in Education + fully cleared multi-subject teaching credential—was hired/asked to stay on after student teaching—set foot in my first classroom at age 40. I’ve purposely never taught where I live…I used the valuable 30 min (each way) commute time, to pre-play/replay the day…decompress returning home.

Spent my 21 years in three schools…

Yr 1-3…highly affluent/maximum parent support/newly built school

Yr 4-10…extremely low income/high crime/inner city-type surroundings/minimal parent support

Yr 11-21…low income, safe/country surroundings, many students/parents feeling very “entitled”…moderate support

Immediately found my organizational mgmt expertise highly useful; could quickly decipher what’s important (vs time-wasting) and for those first 3 year’s, I thought managing a class of 34 (9 year old’s)…was a piece of cake! Ha! Didn’t realize at the time…my very actively involved, well-educated parents were scaring my kids into good school behavior, and “cleaning up” my (ineffective at times) teaching at night! Enjoyed my time there, but small district, budget cuts (and my low seniority) sent me looking for another district.

I walked into a new (large) district HR with my degree’s/credential paperwork, 3-years experience, and ask them if I could teach at their most difficult/challenging school…the one they have a hard time keeping staff there? lol immediately hired!

First week my car was key’d; student threw his desk at me; gun shots heard while on the playground—rushing hundreds of kids (crawling) to safety. Also that first week, a young girl came to me in tears…saying she couldn’t finish (my not very meaningful) homework assignment…there’d been a loud party/drug raid at her apartment complex, she’d been using a flashlight in her closet trying to do the homework, and the batteries went dead. I looked at her—knew it was legit. Have long understood I had a privileged upbringing…but after that week, I realized some schools didn’t work like I thought they all worked. Yea, it was my 4th year, but I became a legit teacher that week (as well as detective, social worker, and life-coach)…but DID find a meaningful day. : )

Fortunately, I had a Principal that “got me”…understood the plight of these kids, and allowed me great latitude to be creative with my teaching methods—ended with the highest test score growth at our school that year.

State of my 4th grade class there:

•25% class turnover within the school year; reading ability range=K to 8th; math ability range=1st to 4th; only 6 (of 34) parents involved; 12+ were unreachable by phone, 1 living out of a car.

•regularly tracked down MIA parents on my time—met them on their work breaks (Target, Donut shop, wherever) for quick conferences/signature…most were working 2-3 jobs. A lot of frustrated, angry kids.

•for those parents who dropped their kid off, I’d wait out front of school—literally walking backwards in the car line with a clip board (driver window rolled down) 1-2 min conference/signature…

•one student’s mom was a “street worker” (super nice student, who always told me about yet another “uncle” that came to visit) Each semester, I’d literally go meet mom at her street location, for a short conference and signature. Btw, she was the nicest mom—tough life story—was doing her best to take good care of her 2 kids (both respectful kids, always well-fed/well-kept appearance) She felt embarrassed to come around school…very appreciative that I’d take the time to communicate with her.

•offered unpaid 90-min/after-school tutoring, 4 days/week.

Unfortunately, District decided to close that school, so moved to my last school for the 11-21 yrs…

Eh…3rd school was just ok. Parents were involved, but would often scream at/blame teachers…didn’t take any responsibility for their kids poor behavior, etc….all the issues mentioned in earlier posts here. A lot of feeling “entitled” behavior; still the wide variance of skill levels within the class, but less class turnover.

No question I would’ve stayed at Yr 4-10 school…forever! The kids longed to be kids, and often expressed their life-circumstance frustration in many different ways. Most of the lack of parent involvement, was due to heavy parent work schedules—multiple low paying jobs. My 9-year student may be taking care of 3+ siblings (by themselves) after school, until they all go to bed. Most wore the same clothes all week—just got dirtier each day. 6+ students walked in my room having not eaten that morning (arrived too late for free breakfast)… I fed my entire class daily, to disguise the students who really needed something in their stomach. If I wanted eager learner’s, I couldn’t ignore it…easy to see the behavior difference after eating.

Angry behavior? We always have a choice how to respond. Beginning of Yr 4, I gave a writing assignment to tell me about themselves, etc. Read/edited them overnight, and returned them for rewrite the following day. One young man (long history of behavior issues) wrote about me, calling me every name…f-word multiple times, etc. I purposely hadn’t edited his letter yet, but walked it over to his seat…got down to ear level, and quietly whispered “This is one of the best pieces of writing I’ve ever seen…you make some really great points. Let’s go over it together. When you said f__ you, Mr K…it’s spelled incorrectly. You need to add a “c”…so let’s put an insert mark with a “c” above it, then add a “c” on your next draft, to make it a four-letter word.” Tears started running down his face, and he eventually asked if he could just start over? Obviously, I said “sure”… I received back two writings—(1) a fabulous letter of apology (beautifully written—he was very talented) and (2) the assignment. Zero behavior issues from him, the rest of the year (accept when I had to use a sub teacher ;))

The real social work aspects weren’t addressed in my degree/certificate program. But, when you get in your classroom and close the door…these issues are real, can’t be ignored, if you’re expecting student success. Beyond food…a new overnight family crises, child custody fighting, worried about their (next week) housing future, no sleep…. I was called into court for my testimony dozens of times, to describe a child’s behavior/performance—lawyers seeking any day (or week) correlation to the parent custody schedule.

If their “head space” (and stomach) aren’t in the right place..:the “lid” on their brain isn’t open to receive any wisdom from me…that was for sure.

At my last school, I was quite surprised at how often parents would tell me I didn’t know ___! about teaching their kid, even in my final years—with a great reputation around our school clientele. Taking the “high-road” when responding, was difficult many times…….but on the flip side, a surprising number of parent-teacher conferences were spent answering sincere parent questions—about HOW to parent their kid (vs discussing their child’s report card…)

In the end…kids are still kids at heart—some deal with a lot of stress; old math still works—educator’s are always trying to reinvent the wheel though; old reading strategies still work—more educator’s trying to reinvent the freak’n wheel; but writing…looked more like texting.

I chose to ignore the politics, funding issues, who’s to blame, etc…just dealt with each student’s academics and given home-life situation as I encountered…their reality. Fully admit, coming into the education game later in life—with more perspective, and financial foundation…was advantageous.

A lot of very talented young teachers struggling with classroom management, minimal experience to date, no financial resources, afraid/aren’t in a position to simply ignore or question WHY we’re being asked to do something that’s been effectively working…a crazy new way?! : )
This read like the inspiration for season 4 of the Wire, and I definitely mean that as a compliment. Thanks for your service, your commitment and your perspective.