Excuses

[thepontif]

I get it. He didn't miss a gig. Just stood up the bride. Thought there might be something there you could use. I'd go with locusts.

No grumpy, he NEVER AGREED TO MARRY HER! What's the matter with you?

 

[nutdog]

 

[ChrisB2]

LOL. Don't take it so hard nutdog. I thought your reply was pretty funny, but I like a little sarcasm..... when I'm not the subject.

 

[thepontif]

LOL. Don't take it so hard nutdog. I thought your reply was pretty funny, but I like a little sarcasm..... when I'm not the subject.

Me too. But it's even better when the sarcasm makes sense!!! :0)

 

[nutdog]

Me too. But it's even better when the sarcasm makes sense!!! :0)

So it was a bit of a stretch. Geez. I think you need a vacation. I recommend allotting adequate downtime afterward for recovery.

 

[thepontif]

So it was a bit of a stretch. Geez. I think you need a vacation. I recommend allotting adequate downtime afterward for recovery.

A stretch? Like a bungee cord! Oh we'll...I guess I shouldn't have given you a hard time. Sorry.

 

[hernameisrio]

???

How does saying no to a gig make someone flaky or unreliable?

I'm not talking about ditching a day of work. That's different because there is a standing expectation for you to be there. I'm talking about someone calling you for a one-off gig that you just don't feel like playing.

Because in my eyes, it's the same thing. If you perceive gigs as being different from a day job, that's your business. But to me, even though it's fun, it's still work. So when someone calls me for a one-off gig, I treat it just like I'm being booked for a job.

So yeah. Turning down one gig could potentially become a landslide of being the no-show and thus, being unreliable..because who's to say it wouldn't become a habit? It's one thing to pick and choose work, but you're putting more energy and time into figuring out how to get OUT of a gig, than just playing it in the first place.

Obviously we disagree and have different viewpoints as to what constitutes reliability and professionalism, and that's fine. I kinda don't really feel like getting into it.

 

[thepontif]

Because in my eyes, it's the same thing. If you perceive gigs as being different from a day job, that's your business. But to me, even though it's fun, it's still work. So when someone calls me for a one-off gig, I treat it just like I'm being booked for a job.

So yeah. Turning down one gig could potentially become a landslide of being the no-show and thus, being unreliable..because who's to say it wouldn't become a habit? It's one thing to pick and choose work, but you're putting more energy and time into figuring out how to get OUT of a gig, than just playing it in the first place.

Obviously we disagree and have different viewpoints as to what constitutes reliability and professionalism, and that's fine. I kinda don't really feel like getting into it.

Bro, if your boss calls you, and you and says, "hey do you want some overtime tomorrow?" But you don't need the money, and want to watch the game, or go to a movie with your kids. So you say, no. That makes you unreliable? Sorry, but no.

I'm not putting more energy into not taking gigs than getting them. It pisses me off that you would say that. Look at my résumé. Not short on heavy jazz gigs. But if you get as many calls as I do, you get calls you don't want sometimes and have to graciously turn some down.

Bottom line is, you're not making any sense. Saying no to the occasional gig is in NO way a precursor to failing to fulfill commitments...unless you have problems that go way beyond professional ones.

 

[nutdog]

A stretch? Like a bungee cord! Oh we'll...I guess I shouldn't have given you a hard time. Sorry.

No worries. The interwebz be serious bizznezz.

I avoid giving explanations. Let your yes be yes and your no be no, I recall being taught.

If pressed, saying something like "I've got a family thing" usually takes care of it. Of course it's always easier to come up with something if you're not being pressed. This is my go to after many times being caught flat footed.

If you're feeling playful you could always offer up some deeply personal medical excuse involving hemorrhoids, STD's and/or menstruation that would make the interrogator regret sticking his nose into your private life.

 

[hernameisrio]

Bro, if your boss calls you, and you and says, "hey do you want some overtime tomorrow?" But you don't need the money, and want to watch the game, or go to a movie with your kids. So you say, no. That makes you unreliable? Sorry, but no.

I'm not putting more energy into not taking gigs than getting them. It pisses me off that you would say that. Look at my résumé. Not short on heavy jazz gigs. But if you get as many calls as I do, you get calls you don't want sometimes and have to graciously turn some down.

Bottom line is, you're not making any sense. Saying no to the occasional gig is in NO way a precursor to failing to fulfill commitments...unless you have problems that go way beyond professional ones.

Okay, fine. You're right and I'm wrong because yeah, life is really that simple and after all, this is the Internet.

 

[hernameisrio]

Also, I don't have kids and my job is really stingy about overtime. I also don't play jazz.

So I guess in short, I can't relate.

 

[thepontif]

Okay, fine. You're right and I'm wrong because yeah, life is really that simple and after all, this is the Internet.

What kind of a smart assed response is that?

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Bro, if your boss calls you, and you and says, "hey do you want some overtime tomorrow?" But you don't need the money, and want to watch the game, or go to a movie with your kids. So you say, no. That makes you unreliable? Sorry, but no.

I'm not putting more energy into not taking gigs than getting them. It pisses me off that you would say that. Look at my résumé. Not short on heavy jazz gigs. But if you get as many calls as I do, you get calls you don't want sometimes and have to graciously turn some down.

Bottom line is, you're not making any sense. Saying no to the occasional gig is in NO way a precursor to failing to fulfill commitments...unless you have problems that go way beyond professional ones.

Looks like you were just wanting to justify your actions with this thread

To be fair, you aren't wrong. If you are getting more subbing offers than you can possibly swing, and if playing or not playing a gig won't put you on the street, then you have every reason to decide not to play if you don't want to.

That said, there are a lot of other guys out there who depend on each and every gig because they can't always be certain when and where the next one will be coming from. They need to make every dollar they can, while they can, because their source of gigs isn't as stable as yours seems to be. That, and they need to take these gigs so that they're known as reliable, go-to guys who can be counted on. Them saying no to a gig will seemingly affect them much more than saying no would affect you.

 

[thepontif]

You sound as if you're taking the position that my turning down a gig is somehow wrong. What action do you think I'm trying to justify? I don't feel the need to justify anything, as I've said before in this thread, if someone calls me for a gig I don't want I just say no. I don't make any apologies for it nor should I have to. I'm just curious how other people handle these situations. Seems to me plenty of other people get into the situation and have posted in a very reasonable way in this thread.

I think anyone that would criticize someone else for turning down a gig just weird.

 

[thepontif]

No worries. The interwebz be serious bizznezz.

I avoid giving explanations. Let your yes be yes and your no be no, I recall being taught.

If pressed, saying something like "I've got a family thing" usually takes care of it. Of course it's always easier to come up with something if you're not being pressed. This is my go to after many times being caught flat footed.

If you're feeling playful you could always offer up some deeply personal medical excuse involving hemorrhoids, STD's and/or menstruation that would make the interrogator regret sticking his nose into your private life.

Like, sorry but I recently misplaced my lucky gig thong. That usually gets them.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

The issue is that you're trying to paint this to be a black or white sort of thing. Perhaps in your case it is, but for (I dare say) most working musicians it's not. I can't turn down subbing gigs unless I have a really good excuse because if I become known as a guy who is unreliable then I'm going to stop getting calls. For a guy like me who isn't a big name, but who still makes 100% of his income from gigging, that's a big deal because it directly affects my ability to eat and pay rent.

Perhaps something you should realize is that most members of this forum don't have a resume that even comes close to mimicking your own. You have a name that lends credibility to yourself and any decision you might make in relation to music, whereas a guy like me is still working on building that resume just to get my name on the radar. I know you think your stance makes 100% sense (and it does from your POV), but from others like myself (and especially to those who don't know you) it actually comes off as naive, if not even slightly inane.

To sum it up, neither of you are wrong, but neither of you are completely right, either. Like most things in life, it simply comes down to your experiences and your personal situation. When it comes to discussing points on the internet it's important to remember that there are often two ways to skin a cat.

 

[Pacman]

Because in my eyes, it's the same thing. If you perceive gigs as being different from a day job, that's your business. But to me, even though it's fun, it's still work. So when someone calls me for a one-off gig, I treat it just like I'm being booked for a job.

So yeah. Turning down one gig could potentially become a landslide of being the no-show and thus, being unreliable..because who's to say it wouldn't become a habit? It's one thing to pick and choose work, but you're putting more energy and time into figuring out how to get OUT of a gig, than just playing it in the first place.

Obviously we disagree and have different viewpoints as to what constitutes reliability and professionalism, and that's fine. I kinda don't really feel like getting into it.

You really seem to be missing a crucial point here. Turning down a gig and backing out of a gig are two completely different things. Turning down a gig because you've got other commitments is never a reputation killer. (Although, you sometimes run the risk of the "don't call him - he's always booked" syndrome. Usually fixed by putting the word out that you're looking for gigs.)

Backing out of a gig can hurt you, and bad.

 

[capnsandwich]

I'd just tell the guy that you'd just be getting in from being out of town and you need some downtime to relax at home. You're not telling him it's a vacation so he'd probably think you were doing a gig and give you the benefit of the doubt. It's not lying because you were gone.

 

[bolophonic]

I would turn down any gig I didn't want/couldn't do and offer "prior commitments" as the reason why. We take serious vacations around here, so I keep my schedule extremely light in the days preceding and following a trip.

For all these ham-fisted responses about "reliability," being unavailable is not the same as being unreliable. Professionals can certainly elect to decline a gig anytime they see fit without having to justify themselves.

 

[thepontif]

The issue is that you're trying to paint this to be a black or white sort of thing. Perhaps in your case it is, but for (I dare say) most working musicians it's not. I can't turn down subbing gigs unless I have a really good excuse because if I become known as a guy who is unreliable then I'm going to stop getting calls. For a guy like me who isn't a big name, but who still makes 100% of his income from gigging, that's a big deal because it directly affects my ability to eat and pay rent.

Perhaps something you should realize is that most members of this forum don't have a resume that even comes close to mimicking your own. You have a name that lends credibility to yourself and any decision you might make in relation to music, whereas a guy like me is still working on building that resume just to get my name on the radar. I know you think your stance makes 100% sense (and it does from your POV), but from others like myself (and especially to those who don't know you) it actually comes off as naive, if not even slightly inane.

To sum it up, neither of you are wrong, but neither of you are completely right, either. Like most things in life, it simply comes down to your experiences and your personal situation. When it comes to discussing points on the internet it's important to remember that there are often two ways to skin a cat.

I'm sorry, but I cannot comprehend the notion that saying no to a gig makes you in any way unreliable. To me being unreliable means you say you're going to do something and then you don't follow through with your commitment. That would definitely be unreliable.

I would like to know specifically how it is that you feel that I'm trying to paint this to be a black-and-white issue. Maybe you could give me some Details on where you're coming from with that statement.

And to bring this full circle, the fact is that my original post says if you're someone who gets a call that you don't want to take how do you handle it? If you are not one of those people, why bother post a response?