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Explain me the 'Fender is God' thing

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Gosh. Fender instruments are what they are, their qualities are obvious to those that have played them - some like them, the others don't. Why all the fervour?

From Carol Kaye's own mouth, in passim: the fender bass worked for what I played back then - I'd get them professionally set up and never bother with changing strings... it was quicker to buy a new one already set up... Not at a level of my Epiphone Emperor jazz guitar (Epiphone used to be more appreciated than Gibson way back then) but it worked. I'm sure we'll get the thread locked now that I dragged Carol in, right? Chuck Rainey recorded 'Aja' on a P Bass - he then went on to use a Ken Smith 6, which he felt was a superior instrument (at thrice the cost, it had better be!). But he'd play whatever the producer demanded. etc etc - you can take any old time cat and they played Fenders because that worked in the studio (and live). And recording was their job. Stating that Fenders were used for any other reason than that they delivered the goods is deluded or ignorant. The price was of course a bonus for musicians.

Leo Fender saw an opportunity, designed a product that enabled him to take advantage of that opportunity, end of story. He was a very talented designer who wasn't stuck in his ways, that much is obvious to anyone who looks at how his designs evolved from Fender to Music Man to G&L. Fender the company pioneered economies of scale in musical instrument production --> decent overheads at prices well undercutting Epiphone and Gibson. Fender the man understood the need to optimize quality/cost and did just that. Like any talented designer. I'm fairly sure that as the economical impetus for an affordable, amplified bass that guitarists could double on was there, sooner or later we'd have had a profusion of slab-bodied electric basses. There was money to be made, and the invisible hand of the market would have ensured that something would've emerged. And we'd consider that something 'the standard' now.

It isn't rocket science, it's electrical engineering.

Fender amps are derivative of RCA schematic book designs. They work. Someone else would have stumbled on the same designs, eventually. The classic recordings may have sounded a little different, but in the end, amplifying a signal can only be done in so many ways.

To attribute the birth of electric bass and rock'n'roll bass tone's whole existence to Leo Fender is folly - it's called 'the great man theory of history' in historical scholarship. World War II was not fought because Hitler and Stalin were evil men in power, but because the circumstances in Europe virtually guaranteed an armed conflict. To only look at Hitler and Stalin is to miss the context precludes any real understanding of historical events. Great Man theory of history is thoroughly bunked, this is political science 101 stuff here. Fender the company created and marketed products that delivered the goods then. As of today, hand-made instruments are available at prices directly competitive with high-end assembly line products, and it's never been better for the shopping musician. Buying Fender is the safe, and by safe I mean socially acceptable, choice, but for attention to detail and QC, my money is better spent elsewhere. I personally do not think Fenders sound remarkably, or at all, better than, say, G&Ls and cannot stand the 50's aesthetics of Fender's main line of instruments, much as I reject the 50's American design as a whole and the modernist progressive narrative that is to blame for much of the world's current ills.

Yes, I've spent a lot of time at a university.
 
Gosh. Fender instruments are what they are, their qualities are obvious to those that have played them - some like them, the others don't. Why all the fervour?

From Carol Kaye's own mouth, in passim: the fender bass worked for what I played back then - I'd get them professionally set up and never bother with changing strings... it was quicker to buy a new one already set up... Not at a level of my Epiphone Emperor jazz guitar (Epiphone used to be more appreciated than Gibson way back then) but it worked. I'm sure we'll get the thread locked now that I dragged Carol in, right? Chuck Rainey recorded 'Aja' on a P Bass - he then went on to use a Ken Smith 6, which he felt was a superior instrument (at thrice the cost, it had better be!). But he'd play whatever the producer demanded. etc etc - you can take any old time cat and they played Fenders because that worked in the studio (and live). And recording was their job. Stating that Fenders were used for any other reason than that they delivered the goods is deluded or ignorant. The price was of course a bonus for musicians.

Leo Fender saw an opportunity, designed a product that enabled him to take advantage of that opportunity, end of story. He was a very talented designer who wasn't stuck in his ways, that much is obvious to anyone who looks at how his designs evolved from Fender to Music Man to G&L. Fender the company pioneered economies of scale in musical instrument production --> decent overheads at prices well undercutting Epiphone and Gibson. Fender the man understood the need to optimize quality/cost and did just that. Like any talented designer. I'm fairly sure that as the economical impetus for an affordable, amplified bass that guitarists could double on was there, sooner or later we'd have had a profusion of slab-bodied electric basses. There was money to be made, and the invisible hand of the market would have ensured that something would've emerged. And we'd consider that something 'the standard' now.

It isn't rocket science, it's electrical engineering.

Fender amps are derivative of RCA schematic book designs. They work. Someone else would have stumbled on the same designs, eventually. The classic recordings may have sounded a little different, but in the end, amplifying a signal can only be done in so many ways.

To attribute the birth of electric bass and rock'n'roll bass tone's whole existence to Leo Fender is folly - it's called 'the great man theory of history' in historical scholarship. World War II was not fought because Hitler and Stalin were evil men in power, but because the circumstances in Europe virtually guaranteed an armed conflict. To only look at Hitler and Stalin is to miss the context precludes any real understanding of historical events. Great Man theory of history is thoroughly bunked, this is political science 101 stuff here. Fender the company created and marketed products that delivered the goods then. As of today, hand-made instruments are available at prices directly competitive with high-end assembly line products, and it's never been better for the shopping musician. Buying Fender is the safe, and by safe I mean socially acceptable, choice, but for attention to detail and QC, my money is better spent elsewhere. I personally do not think Fenders sound remarkably, or at all, better than, say, G&Ls and cannot stand the 50's aesthetics of Fender's main line of instruments, much as I reject the 50's American design as a whole and the modernist progressive narrative that is to blame for much of the world's current ills.

Yes, I've spent a lot of time at a university.
So... Precision or Jazz?

:D
 
wow, after i just completely disproved that lame "it was all that was available" argument, you go and use it just a few posts later? uber lame! you're not a very good arguer.

I think the argument is more along the lines of....if Foderas, F Basses, Alembics, etc were available in the 60's, would James Jamerson have still have used a Fender. The answer, of course, is a resounding, 'Who cares!!' Interesting fodder for a bassist's luncheon, perhaps---or perhaps not---but very little bearing on the real world.

-------------------------------------------------

I've said it before--probably in this thread--but, everyone has different needs. You could play a vintage Fender in a modern merengue band, but it isn't the 'best' choice.

I do like my Fender basses. They get the job done when that is what is needed. Sometimes, they aren't the best choice....in which case, I take something else. No biggie. No need to argue.
 
When its the best brand thats available to them at the time, what would you suggest?

Look there were other models of guitars and basses those greats could of played at the time. Does the player make the bass or the bass make the player? The player is the key of course...why Fender? I dont know? Why didnt Hendrix, SVR and Clapton use les Pauls? Go ask them :smug:Ask Marcus Miller and Geddy lee and Steve Harris why they use old 70's Fenders...they are all crap. If you like Fender ...and some of us do for those keeping score..great! If you dont, I'm not going to crawl in a corner and weep over it.
 
i personally think it has to do with them being the original in commercially available SB electric basses. it's the whole, they were hear first so lets compare everything to them mentality. I'm not saying that they are bad instruments (though I have yet to play one that i actually enjoyed) but they are the old standard for most
 
Adam?
 

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I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you've never been hired to do a recording session or backing gig for someone else.

Because if you had you wouldn't be so baffled about this.

Walk into a dance rehearsal wearing combat boots instead of toe shoes...

Walk onto a construction site wearing a beret instead of a hardhat...

Walk into a biker bar wearing a tutu instead of a leather jacket...

See if it makes things easier, or harder :)

Yeah, I'm with the OP, this post is a pile of balls.

I do session work, and backing playing for other people a fair bit these days, and I have a quest-MD and a Modulus Q5. And a Markbass. Noone EVER says "Why don't you have a Fender?" after I've started playing. Jazz, Funk, old school Blues, Classic Rock. It's all about how you play, and how you set your gear up. If you go to a recording studio with REAL musicians (I was at, admittedly not playing at, just watching, a session with Clem Cattini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clem_Cattini If you cba to read it he's played on 44 number 1's turned down joining Zeppelin, was in the Tornados and recently played on Paul Wellers new album), Ray Fennick, the guitarist from The Ian Gillan Band, and Spencer Davis group, and Mike Hurst, singer and Guitarist from The Springfields, Mark Bolan, and Cat Stevens producer. The bassist (Terry Pack) turned up with 2 Ibanez's and a Markbass Combo. They accepted that he knew what he was doing and was a pro, so didn't question his gear. REAL musicians don't need to see a Fender to trust people.
 
this post is a pile of balls.

I'd like to borrow that phrase once in a while. I love it!

BTW, while I agree with you, I don't think I'll be showing up to a biker bar in a tutu. At some point, common sense has to take over. I mean, I might not get my ass kicked for not showing up on a Harley, but Harley or no Harley, the tutu is an open invitation for a beating.
:D
 
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