fEARful™ Part Ten (10)

[Sundogue]

Great job!

Thanks. It's similar to my dual 110/6 dolly/cart system, which has been incredibly easy to navigate my way through anything. Having a dolly and hand cart in one system solves the problems in using either. The only thing is when I encounter steps. Though the 15/6 isn't all that heavy and I could carry it up some stairs if need be. But sometimes I come across curbs or really bad parking lots, etc. where a dolly won't cut it, so all I have to do is tilt it back and use it as a handcart.

I usually have some band case to put my cabs on, but I can use the cart now as a tiltback stand if need be. Remains to be seen if the cart will rattle at high volumes as I don't have the cab loaded yet. But I did add all the extra bracing per greenboy's suggestion so I don't anticipate much vibration issues.

 

[edwinhurwitz]

This may have been discussed already so I may have missed it.

What are you guys powering your 15/6 cabs with?? I have a Mesa Carbine M9 which is rated 450 watts at 8ohms.Anyone else using the M9.Im just wondering if 450 watts is enough to really drive one of these.Im reading these cabs love more power.

Crown XTi 4000. I found the limit! It's pretty high.

 

[bassjam]

A 15/6 will be LOUD with 450 watts. Mine is very loud with a Yorkville YB400 putting 300 watts into 8 ohms. (That didn't stop me from buying a Carvin BX1500 that will punch 900 watts into 8 ohms.)
These cabs don't NEED lots of power to be loud, but they can TAKE lots of power as long as you pay attention.

Thanks-Yeah sounds right.Really more of what Im reading indicates these cabs shine with more power.I know 450 will drive it,just concerned if it will take it to that "wow" place!

How does the Carvin sound through it-lke to try one those one day.

 

[bassjam]

Markbass SD1200; 750W into 8 ohms.

I wish someone around here had one of those-Thats the amp Ive been dying to try.I still have my LMII and still love it.

 

[bassjam]

Crown XTi 4000. I found the limit! It's pretty high.

Dang dude you aint messin around.

 

[dug dog]

I haven't had the chance to crank the Carvin yet. Drummer sick, other drummer away with his family for spring break and so on.

I'm really looking forward to it, though.

 

[bassjam]

I haven't had the chance to crank the Carvin yet. Drummer sick, other drummer away with his family for spring break and so on.

I'm really looking forward to it, though.

Yeah report back.I looked into the BX500 a while back-looked nice and great price.

 

[Sundogue]

This may have been discussed already so I may have missed it.

What are you guys powering your 15/6 cabs with?? I have a Mesa Carbine M9 which is rated 450 watts at 8ohms.Anyone else using the M9.Im just wondering if 450 watts is enough to really drive one of these.Im reading these cabs love more power.

Both the 3015LF and 18Sound mid are very high sensitivity drivers, so they should not require a lot of power to get loud (ala Acme LowB cabs). It's just that unlike most cabs, the displacement limitation of the fEARfuls are darn near the thermal rating, meaning you could literally use almost all the watts the 3015LF is rated for. Most cabs are displacement limited to about half the speaker's wattage rating (where the voice coil melts).

That's why it's really important to be careful with how much power you throw at it because the point at which it will fart out is also close to the point where the voice coil will melt.

It can take a lot of power and get deafeningly loud, but all that power isn't needed to get very loud. 450 watts is A LOT of power with the right speakers (which these are).

I'll be powering mine with a Carvin BX1200 (800 watts into 8 ohms, 1200 watts into 4 ohms, bridged). I doubt I could even tolerate the volume throwing even half that amount into a fEARful. I haven't even loaded my cab yet, but the specs already tell me what to expect.

 

[Sundogue]

Anyone here get a pre-built crossover from Leland? If so, do you have any pics and how easy was it to wire up?

I'll be wiring mine up to parallel speakons, so if anyone has any tips for me, I'd appreciate it. I've never wired up speakons before but they look rather self explanatory. Still, I'm not sure with having the mid and 3015 being wired up to the crossover if both +1/-1 and +2/-2 get used on the speakons? Everything I've read suggested using that for bi-amping. Is that the case with this crossover?

I don't know what the layout of the speakerhardware pre-built crossover looks like.

Anyone?

 

[Sundogue]

Yep. If the 3012LF would have been available at the start, the 1212/6 would be my "loud gigs" cab instead of the 15/6. The extra sensitivity and full SPL potential with thermal limits closer to mechanical limits, along with the 6" more height and ease of transport with tilt-back wheels and handle - it's so frickin' cooool.

Even if it DOES weight 75 pounds.

Yeah, I was really torn between a 15/6 and a 1212/6. I could not make up my mind. Funds became the determining factor. I felt the 15/6 was the best bang for the buck ("bang" in the literal sense ).

 

[bassjam]

Both the 3015LF and 18Sound mid are very high sensitivity drivers, so they should not require a lot of power to get loud (ala Acme LowB cabs). It's just that unlike most cabs, the displacement limitation of the fEARfuls are darn near the thermal rating, meaning you could literally use almost all the watts the 3015LF is rated for. Most cabs are displacement limited to about half the speaker's wattage rating (where the voice coil melts).

That's why it's really important to be careful with how much power you throw at it because the point at which it will fart out is also close to the point where the voice coil will melt.

It can take a lot of power and get deafeningly loud, but all that power isn't needed to get very loud. 450 watts is A LOT of power with the right speakers (which these are).

I'll be powering mine with a Carvin BX1200 (800 watts into 8 ohms, 1200 watts into 4 ohms, bridged). I doubt I could even tolerate the volume throwing even half that amount into a fEARful. I haven't even loaded my cab yet, but the specs already tell me what to expect.

Thank you much for the info!Thats what the specs were telling me but all the reports of "loads of power" scared me a little.Im coming from a 410 with the Mesa and thats 900watts into 4ohms.I sure dont want anything "less loud"-we still [play too loud.

I considered going with the 212/6 but the 15/6 should do great for most of my gigs-I hope.

Edit-I wrote this before I read others talking 212/6.Guess Im on the right track.

 

[greenboy]

I currently have a 15/6 tube with 18sound mid and I plan on building a 12/6..

If I choose an alpha mid, when using both cabs as a stack, will the different mids play well together?

Yep. They have similar drop-off characteristics (which is why the "LeJeune" HF highpass section fits either cab). And passband FR is equivalent due to driver choices and the LF-MF crossover designs that are used for each. Just get the baffle orientations right.

This stuff actually all got thought about for ages, which made it a lot tougher to present a huge lineup of cabs. It actually required some second revisions in designs to get it even better, so that they all played together well... The way most cab manufacturers do their cab lineups is to NOT think about any of this stuff at all, and just make them in boxes with the same dimensions, and then encourage players to mix cabs nilly willy.

Strange but true.

 

[bassjam]

Yeah, I was really torn between a 15/6 and a 1212/6. I could not make up my mind. Funds became the determining factor. I felt the 15/6 was the best bang for the buck ("bang" in the literal sense ).

Me too-Still go back a forth.The 212/6 looks awesome and only 6in taller.

 

[Sundogue]

Thank you much for the info!Thats what the specs were telling me but all the reports of "loads of power" scared me a little.Im coming from a 410 with the Mesa and thats 900watts into 4ohms.I sure dont want anything "less loud"-we still [play too loud.

I considered going with the 212/6 but the 15/6 should do great for most of my gigs-I hope.

Edit-I wrote this before I read others talking 212/6.Guess Im on the right track.

I would wager that the Mesa 410 was displacement limited to about half it's speaker wattage rating. Wattage rating is the spec ALL manufacturers use, but the one that is the most misleading as almost all cabs are displacement limited well below the thermal (wattage) rating.

So even though the Mesa head could put out 900 watts into 4 ohms, if the cab was rated at 900 watts, it was really probably limited to 450 watts anyway.

Also, bear in mind that the fEARful designs maximize clarity and depth that a 410 really sucks at (having two pairs of tens side by side). What the 410 masked, the fEARful will reveal, and you may very well not even need to be as loud as you were with the 410 to hear yourself as well with the fEARful.

 

[Sundogue]

...The way most cab manufacturers do their cab lineups is to NOT think about any of this stuff at all, and just make them in boxes with the same dimensions, and then encourage players to mix cabs nilly willy.

Strange but true.

Not all that strange really, is it? Strange if they cared about more than the bottom line I guess, but we all know the bean counters play way too big a part in cab design.

 

[bassjam]

Frankly I think you've been going around in circles ; } ... I recommended 1212/6 to you on the phone, based on your gear and your description of your gigs and career. I still think it would be the best fEARful for you.



And it rolls too ; }

Haha-and you are right.Ive gone back and forth.Thanks for being a patient man.

But...can it roll itself??

 

[greenboy]

Invalid Link Removed {...}

Hilarious how many thoughts we both tend to share. I've told people I often strap my cab to the same handcart (shown/linked on the fEARful website, folks) and don't even bother to unstrap it at a jam/gig. I find you really don't need the dolly.

...Way way back when Alex and I first started talking about enclosure designs to Mark of Accugroove, before his company had any cabs for general sale, I remarked that I had considered some kind of handcart actually bolted to the cab to provide all of the back panel bracing externally. That eventually seemed more practical otherwise since tiltback wheels and handles have become easily available, but back then they were not.

Also, way back in the early eighties when I played electric sax and synths primarily, my rig was a Fender 75 all-tube amplifier and a small mixer made into a homebuilt headcase, and latched to a custom built cab with the same rack-latch hardware seen here or on Leland's site. Had casters on the bottom, about as tall as the 1212/6. Junior Walker on psychotropics kinda.

Your cabs as always look much the way I had envisioned doing mine were I not so lazy. Nice work!

 

[bassjam]

I would wager that the Mesa 410 was displacement limited to about half it's speaker wattage rating. Wattage rating is the spec ALL manufacturers use, but the one that is the most misleading as almost all cabs are displacement limited well below the thermal (wattage) rating.

So even though the Mesa head could put out 900 watts into 4 ohms, if the cab was rated at 900 watts, it was really probably limited to 450 watts anyway.

Also, bear in mind that the fEARful designs maximize clarity and depth that a 410 really sucks at (having two pairs of tens side by side). What the 410 masked, the fEARful will reveal, and you may very well not even need to be as loud as you were with the 410 to hear yourself as well with the fEARful.

Thanks again and great point- actually GB and I discussed this very thing.(really he informed me-I learned)Funny thing was this was the first 410 cab I owned in years-I was using 12's and 15's for quite a while and picked up this 410 not long ago.I liked id but missed so much about my other cabs and grew to realize it wasnt what I liked.

But overall Ive been dissatisfied with so many speaker cabs over the years that Im very excited to try this.

 

[bassjam]

You need the optional skateboard motor.

Officially Sold!!!!Im in!!!

 

[Sundogue]

Hilarious how many thoughts we both tend to share. I've told people I often strap my cab to the same handcart (shown/linked on the fEARful website, folks) and don't even bother to unstrap it at a jam/gig. I find you really don't need the dolly.

...Way way back when Alex and I first started talking about enclosure designs to Mark of Accugroove, before his company had any cabs for general sale, I remarked that I had considered some kind of handcart actually bolted to the cab to provide all of the back panel bracing externally. That eventually seemed more practical otherwise since tiltback wheels and handles have become easily available, but back then they were not.

Also, way back in the early eighties when I played electric sax and synths primarily, my rig was a Fender 75 all-tube amplifier and a small mixer made into a homebuilt headcase, and latched to a custom built cab with the same rack-latch hardware seen here or on Leland's site. Had casters on the bottom, about as tall as the 1212/6. Junior Walker on psychotropics kinda.

Your cabs as always look much the way I had envisioned doing mine were I not so lazy. Nice work!

Thanks greenboy. I like the dolly option (instead of just a handcart) because there are way too many gigs where my rig needs to be rolled a long distance. One place we have to load in up a very long sidewalk/ramp just to get to the building itself, and then once inside it has to be rolled ALL the way to the other side of the building through various hallways. It's nice to just roll it without also having to support it while doing so (as when its tilted).

The reason for latching the headcase to the cab is because no matter how I've had gear on a hand cart, parts of the rig would inevitably move when hitting bumps or what have you. Latching not only secures it for moving, the handle on the headcase becomes the handle for the "cart" and when tilting back the cab there is no worry about the head not staying on while playing (obviously).

Having the dolly platform also keeps the cab more stable on the cart because the stock cart platform is rather small and doesn't make contact with the bottom of the cab because of the cab feet (until its tilted far enough back). The platform makes it very secure for moving. Adding the platform and wheels to make it a dolly just makes it more convenient and it still folds up completely.