fEARful™ Part Ten (10)

[Coolhandjjl]

.....you know both Passinwind and I have always contemplated the fEARful as a biamp rig with SS on the woofer for the bottom, and all tubes on the mid driver.....

Greenboy, I've read Passinwind mention that before. What's the reasoning behind that instead of tube power amps for both?

 

[Sundogue]

Greenboy, I've read Passinwind mention that before. What's the reasoning behind that instead of tube power amps for both?

I'd venture a guess that it has to do with keeping the low end clarity, but allowing that warm buttery overdriven break-up tubes do so well, but only in the midrange driver.

Personally I'd think maybe the mid would be crossed over lower in that case, but that's just an assumption.

 

[Passinwind]

I'd venture a guess that it has to do with keeping the low end clarity, but allowing that warm buttery overdriven break-up tubes do so well, but only in the midrange driver.

Personally I'd think maybe the mid would be crossed over lower in that case, but that's just an assumption.

Yep. In my case I am using a horn-loaded mid driver, which lets me cross lower and also rolls off in a pleasing fashion when using distortion.

You can easily make a case for using the tube section in either band, just depends what you're going for. I love tube 'verb on the harmonics, but none where it would just muddy things up, for instance. Just in terms of weight and cost, only using tubes for the highs makes a lot of sense too IMHO.

 

[Mjury02]

Sundogue, It's been a few weeks since I put mine together, but the boards are ~4"x6"... There's plenty of room to istall them on the shelf.

I went through and hot glued the mid coil, the capacitors, after I installed and tested, because they were getting a little vibration.

Also don't make the same mistake I did and think you had extra parts. The big iron coil takes a screw in either end, as well as the corner screws. I didn't use the spacers on the woofer board, but did use the spacers on the mid board because of the heat issues.

Hope this helps out.

Matt.

 

[greenboy]

A lot of tube heads sound kind of mushy below 100-125 Hz too (transformer demand issue as well as maybe damping and tone stack which is actually nice to bypass). Compared to even 300 watts of dedicated SS pro power amp, they are weak below 100 Hz using an active crossover. The SS delivers direct immediate punch down there if all else is right, and if you have ever tried such a setup with a low-tuned bass it is immediately obvious.

Then too, a tube amp tends to shift energy upwards an octave and more. So that detracts from the bottom.

 

[Sundogue]

Sundogue, It's been a few weeks since I put mine together, but the boards are ~4"x6"... There's plenty of room to istall them on the shelf.

I went through and hot glued the mid coil, the capacitors, after I installed and tested, because they were getting a little vibration.

Also don't make the same mistake I did and think you had extra parts. The big iron coil takes a screw in either end, as well as the corner screws. I didn't use the spacers on the woofer board, but did use the spacers on the mid board because of the heat issues.

Hope this helps out.

Matt.

Thanks. Yes, it does help. I ordered the pre-built one...not just the parts for it. I'm assuming it's the two boards completed, but I don't know for sure.

I have some 1/4" rubber spacers I was going to put under the boards at each mounting point to reduce any vibration issues to the parts.

Anyone have pics? I've tried a search, but with ten thousand fEARful threads, each with hundreds of thousands of posts , it's hard to find crossover pics only...especially if they are the pre-built ones.

 

[Sundogue]

A lot of tube heads sound kind of mushy below 100-125 Hz too (transformer demand issue as well as maybe damping and tone stack which is actually nice to bypass). Compared to even 300 watts of dedicated SS pro power amp, they are weak below 100 Hz using an active crossover. The SS delivers direct immediate punch down there if all else is right, and if you have ever tried such a setup with a low-tuned bass it is immediately obvious.

Then too, a tube amp tends to shift energy upwards an octave and more. So that detracts from the bottom.

I'm guessing that's why an Ampeg SVT head sounds so good through the 810 cab...because there really isn't much content around/below 100Hz with that cab?

 

[Coolhandjjl]

Thanks Greenboy, Passinwind, and Sundogue. Right now, I have 2 Mesa/Boogie Strategy 400 stereo tube power amps, and one SAE SS stereo power amp (similar to the ones Pink Floyd used for their Wall tour). Both the SAE and Mesa/Boogie are the same size, those big black rack mount amps with the big beefy handles. They look really cool. Maybe I'll sell one of my Mesa/Boogie Strategy tube power amps after I try some bi-amping.

 

[greenboy]

Find out first. Especially with tube power amps. Without tone stacks they are already ahead of the game. Big transformers win too. Realize that with a standard-tuned bass this stuff is not as apparent, and that my time with a couple of tube heads and a fEARful have been positive, though for non-biamping I lean toward say a Reeves or that Peavey VB-3 because I want less sag. With say a 100 watt guitar amp it's a marvelous sound - but it ain't my sound because the very lowest content tends to collapse or mud out too early.

 

[philter25]

Just want to say Im lovin what Im seein on speakerhardware.com. I have good woodworking skills, but the crossover has scared me away from this option so I like seeing the option to buy a CBG prebuilt crossover based on your speaker choice.

My only question.... I saw a deluxe kit for the 12/6/1 with the Alpha/Alpha 6a, but is there a deluxe 12/6/1 kit with the 18 sound mid driver and crossover option?

 

[lelandcrooks]

Midrange 6nd board and a lowpass. Standoffs and screws are included.

Hookup is exactly as described earlier. They're both the same board, just one is modified to accommodate the midrange components. So they're both marked W+ and W-. But the one with the big iron coil is for the woofer. You parallel to the boards from the amp in on the speakons.

My only question.... I saw a deluxe kit for the 12/6/1 with the Alpha/Alpha 6a, but is there a deluxe 12/6/1 kit with the 18 sound mid driver and crossover option?

There is now.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

I had a Fender Bassman 300 briefly. At 75 pounds, it was just too much for me.

If I get the Peavey, how do I get the cool 'eye' logo on it?

 

[greenboy]

My only question.... I saw a deluxe kit for the 12/6/1 with the Alpha/Alpha 6a, but is there a deluxe 12/6/1 kit with the 18 sound mid driver and crossover option?

There is now.

Needs the l-pad switch and breakpoints in circuit traces ; }

 

[Sundogue]

Midrange 6nd board and a lowpass. Standoffs and screws are included.

Hookup is exactly as described earlier. They're both the same board, just one is modified to accommodate the midrange components. So they're both marked W+ and W-. But the one with the big iron coil is for the woofer. You parallel to the boards from the amp in on the speakons.

My only question.... I saw a deluxe kit for the 12/6/1 with the Alpha/Alpha 6a, but is there a deluxe 12/6/1 kit with the 18 sound mid driver and crossover option?

There is now.

Thanks so much Leland for the pics and explanation...and really for everything you've done for me! You da man!

 

[lelandcrooks]

Needs the l-pad switch and breakpoints in circuit traces ; }

It's there when I build that particular crossover for the 12/6. Took a while to figure out how to cut the board. Hidden underneath those massive resistors you specified.

 

[greenboy]

Incidentally, in the spirit of Sundogue's layered painting style, I'm thinking standard black DuraTex is a great protective and textural base for running away with cheap latex paint on top. One can always do touch ups when it's obviously needed, or just change up their treatment completely.

 

[BurningSkies]

It's there when I build that particular crossover for the 12/6. Took a while to figure out how to cut the board. Hidden underneath those massive resistors you specified.

With great power, comes great resistors...or so someone famous once said.

Incidentally, in the spirit of Sundogue's layered painting style, I'm thinking standard black DuraTex is a great protective and textural base for running away with cheap latex paint on top. One can always do touch ups when it's obviously needed, or just change up their treatment completely.

That would be cool. AND one could work with either black or white Duratex without the cost of the custom colors in gallon quantity.

BTW, thanks for the response on the amp thing...I originally posted before we exchanged emails on such things...and well before wcriley and I discussed (actually had a nice weekend long talk about things). I would think that the Carvin would be great as a stand-alone bass head or if you had a pre that you loved as a power amp.

My Kern IP-777 showed up today (everyone was serious about this being built like a brick-*-house). For now I'm going to try an ultralight power amp and see how it works out...if that's not my sweet spot, I'll do some shuffling...

 

[greenboy]

I liked the Kern. Didn't have as much EQ as I favor or a second channel, but I bet it'll be great for you, it seems like a bass shelf / plateau voicing is baked in rather than a bump or a GK climbing response (though it's been awhile since I played one). So by default, it's a rich yet detailed sound. Kinda reminiscent of a studio tone for a lot of song-oriented albums too.

 

[Passinwind]

Incidentally, in the spirit of Sundogue's layered painting style, I'm thinking standard black DuraTex is a great protective and textural base for running away with cheap latex paint on top. One can always do touch ups when it's obviously needed, or just change up their treatment completely.

I had great fun with tinting white Duratex purple or orange and using that as an undercoat. Just waiting on nicer weather to revisit that with my bigger top box. The place I bought my metallic stuff from sells all kinds of other cool acrylics that will work great over Duratex.

 

[Sundogue]

I've considered Duratex, but in all the years of building cabs and cases (and being a muralist) I've found that unlike the properties of Duratex (which can, depending on how it is applied I would guess, scratch other objects while its doing its job of protecting the cab itself) multiple layers of paint followed up by a couple of coats satin poly is extremely durable without doing any damage to anything else one might hit or rub with the cab.

I've used the sponge painting technique using just black only, and by using thick paint, followed by the satin poly...and then using a scotch brite pad to dull the dried finish, many people have asked where I got the textured tolex from. Looked like tolex, as durable as Duratex, but so easy to work with and have I mentioned CHEAP? and, of course one can use a variety of techniques for even wilder appearances...faux leather for example. I was thinking of doing one that looked like snake skin. Google faux finishing techniques and you'll find a ton of ideas for non-traditional cab finishing.

The thick sponge painting adds texture to hide flaws and scrapes and the poly adds a very durable top coating. One can even add paint beads for even larger texture if one desires. I have two cabs done in black this way and after years of abuse they haven't needed a single touch up.

When I have the time I am going to redo this cab in a dark blood red, and paint the bottom of the cab (as well as the port openings) to look like hot coals and do a tru-flame coming up the cab and grill cloth from that. It will look like its on fire.

Similar to this bike tank I did (sans skeleton) or the violin (I posted that earlier...sorry for the large image)...

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