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fEARful™ Part Ten (10)

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#962
rpsands said:
Go simulate some stuff in winisd. doubling wattage does NOT double excursion.
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Yeah, I did not mean wattage (power) but double the voltage. So it's 4 times the wattage.
P=U*I --> P´=2U*2I=4*P

he 2510II is >2db more sensitive at 100hz than the Oberton driver you reference. Have you compared them modeled in cabinets? My guess is that this sensitivity advantage will extend on down to the -3db point of the Deltalite -- about 45hz in the alignment i mentioned earlier.

The only sensitivity chart for the 10b200 is in a 30l box tuned to 60hz. Modeled like that the deltalite bitchslaps the Oberton by 3db or better.
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You can't assume that the sensitivity numbers each manufacturer shows are comparable. The bassresponse that Oberton shows in the 30 liter cab is very realistic for a 10" woofer.

Also, when I see the simulated graphs from eminence they are mostly 6dB higher then the ones simulated in Boxsim. The ones in Boxsim or AJhorn come very close to the reality (and I have seen lots of examples that show that). It seems to me that the simulated eminence graphs are half space instead of fullspace. If they are fullspace they are very optimistic.

Did you measure them against each other or compare with the ear test?
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To be honest I compared them by ear. The 2510 II is indeed louder in the mids, the bass response is comparable in a 30 liter test box tuned to 50hz, both are pretty much as loud. But, I could easily make the 2510 II fart with my 100watts amp. I could not do that with the 10B200, the amp switched off instead. Even without a box the 10b200 can take a lot of beating.
 
#963
us.st.yimg.jpg
 
#964
:smug:
Well, we should not argue about the "ten's" here on the fEarful thread.
We were actually searching for a non-neo replacement for the 3015lf. I came up with three options and to really know if they can measure up with the 3015 is to compare them in real life.
So, as long the 3015lf is available for a reasonable price there's not much to gain with a non-neo driver.
 
#968
rpsands said:
Didn't know the community was that big, had a chance to glance a little. Looks neat.

How are you using your minidsp?
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I'll post in the thread in the effects forum again soon, I promise. Been fighting a cold, ears no workee. I finally got back to some tests today, working on effects mixing schemes mostly. I'm planning on going back to a stereo rig soon (also clean/dirty through separate stuff), I've really missed that.

Most of my objections went away when they broke out the last software revision. It's now quiet enough for my (extremely) picky practice habits, and plenty good enough to gig with, in my rig at least. Works really well with my toob line driver to control where the toobiness becomes evident. If you want total control over HPF config, this'll do it. Hope it works for you RP. ;)
 
#969
Arjank said:
Also, when I see the simulated graphs from eminence they are mostly 6dB higher then the ones simulated in Boxsim. The ones in Boxsim or AJhorn come very close to the reality (and I have seen lots of examples that show that). It seems to me that the simulated eminence graphs are half space instead of fullspace. If they are fullspace they are very optimistic.QUOTE]

I have found Eminence's specs and curves to be more reliable than those of at least one big-name manufacturer whose prices are quite a bit higher here in the US. I'll tell you who they are in a private message, but not in public.

In my opinion it is really not so surprising that a shorting-ring-equipped Oberton woofer outperformed a no-shorting-ring Eminence woofer having a shorter voice coil at high levels. Anything different would have been surprising.

If you are setting yourself up to become commercially involved with Oberton, it's bad form to go around bashing your future competitor on a public forum.
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#970
kringle77 said:
If you stack a pair of identical 12/6 cabs on top of each other the mids would be roughly 15-20 inches apart vertically but aligned horizontally. This should mess up the vertical dispersion more than having the mids right on top of each other right? The horizontal dispersion should not be effected right?
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Could someone please answer the question I asked?
 
#971
kringle77 said:
If you stack a pair of identical 12/6 cabs on top of each other the mids would be roughly 15-20 inches apart vertically but aligned horizontally. This should mess up the vertical dispersion more than having the mids right on top of each other right? The horizontal dispersion should not be effected right?
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Right on both counts.

One possible argument in favor of the conventional stacking you describe is, the upper mid driver is closer to ear level. Not being a bass player, I can't tell you whether that's a significant factor in this case. Probably less so than with most cabs.
 
#973
kringle77 said:
Thanks Duke! I really appreciate how you answer the exact question asked and do it so well. And never with a hint of attitude. Class act!
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The big determiner of how high you need the mid driver to be is how far you can stand away from the cabinet. With the 15/6's mid driver height I only need to be a couple feet out in front of it.
 
#974
rpsands said:
The big determiner of how high you need the mid driver to be is how far you can stand away from the cabinet. With the 15/6's mid driver height I only need to be a couple feet out in front of it.
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I flip my 15/6 so the mid is at about 3ft. Otherwise I turn it down too much since it's blasting in my ear at 6ft.
 
#976
cableguy said:
Once I get the speaker for my 12/sub I might try that. With the 12/6 stacked on the empty 12/sub it seems my mid is crazy loud. I'm hoping that with the additional low of the extra 12 it will even out a bit. That 18 sound does blast.
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Are you using the suggested padding/resistor values with your cabinet? It also may be that you're just not used to hearing this much mid after being 'conditioned' by regular bass cabs.
 
#977
My 15/6/1 just arrived.I had Leland build it as I have too much going on right now to take on another project.

I have about an hour on it and so far Ill have to confirm everything Ive read on these.My initial thoughts.

First off,build quality is great.Leland did a great job.Thanks for that!Second,this thing is in fact loud.With out having it on a gig yet its a bit hard to tell,but I cant imagine running it full out.My walls have been shaking.The low end is beautiful,just what I was wanting.Very even sound-I have been EQ my M9 pretty much flat but Im playing with that.I can see bumping the low mids a bit come gig time.

Really not much new to ad that hasnt been said already.I have 2 gigs this weekend and one is outside.Ill get to open it up a bit.Cant wait.

Two minor things-Im not sure I like where the handles are located.Seem a bit low.Im not sure if it was necessary in the design,if its not Id have had them raised a bit.The other,it doesnt sound like I needed the tweeter.I turned it all the way off and I like it just fine-plenty of top end.Again though I have not had it on a gig and have very limited time on it.
 
#978
bassjam said:
My 15/6/1 just arrived.I had Leland build it as I have too much going on right now to take on another project.

I have about an hour on it and so far Ill have to confirm everything Ive read on these.My initial thoughts.

First off,build quality is great.Leland did a great job.Thanks for that!Second,this thing is in fact loud.With out having it on a gig yet its a bit hard to tell,but I cant imagine running it full out.My walls have been shaking.The low end is beautiful,just what I was wanting.Very even sound-I have been EQ my M9 pretty much flat but Im playing with that.I can see bumping the low mids a bit come gig time.

Really not much new to ad that hasnt been said already.I have 2 gigs this weekend and one is outside.Ill get to open it up a bit.Cant wait.

Two minor things-Im not sure I like where the handles are located.Seem a bit low.Im not sure if it was necessary in the design,if its not Id have had them raised a bit.The other,it doesnt sound like I needed the tweeter.I turned it all the way off and I like it just fine-plenty of top end.Again though I have not had it on a gig and have very limited time on it.
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Cooool. I'm looking forward to hearing how it worked for you on the stage. Its almost impossible to really test drive these cabs in home/apartment settings. I don't find myself missing the 1" either, but I've never played one with it either.
 
#979
bassjam said:
My 15/6/1 just arrived.I had Leland build it as I have too much going on right now to take on another project.

I have about an hour on it and so far Ill have to confirm everything Ive read on these.My initial thoughts.

First off,build quality is great.Leland did a great job.Thanks for that!Second,this thing is in fact loud.With out having it on a gig yet its a bit hard to tell,but I cant imagine running it full out.My walls have been shaking.The low end is beautiful,just what I was wanting.Very even sound-I have been EQ my M9 pretty much flat but Im playing with that.I can see bumping the low mids a bit come gig time.

Really not much new to ad that hasnt been said already.I have 2 gigs this weekend and one is outside.Ill get to open it up a bit.Cant wait.

Two minor things-Im not sure I like where the handles are located.Seem a bit low.Im not sure if it was necessary in the design,if its not Id have had them raised a bit.The other,it doesnt sound like I needed the tweeter.I turned it all the way off and I like it just fine-plenty of top end.Again though I have not had it on a gig and have very limited time on it.
Click to expand...

Cool. One thing you might find (I did anyway) is that you may end up playing a bit louder than usual. Not because you'll feel like turning it up to hear better, but because it just will sound so damn nice and clear. I doubt anyone will complain though.

You might also find that unlike almost every other cab out there, you'll be able to turn up the low end a bit more and it will still have great clarity. You may also find that you won't need to rely on mids as greatly to "cut through the mix" because these fEARfuls just sit so well in the mix throughout the bass' spectrum.

Not sure if anyone else feels this way about it, but if you've previously tilted your cabs back or put them up on something to hear them better, you may wanna leave this puppy right on the floor (not tilted back). The mid is so present that I can even hear it standing behind my cab! Seriously, the mid sounds tremendous anywhere you stand. And it is plenty loud...so much so that tilting or up on a stand may be too much. Others may feel differently.

One word of caution...it may take a couple of weeks to get the smile off your face. :D

Can't wait to hear your review!

P.S. - The handle location was to balance it better and make it easier to carry against your chest without banging your knees.
 
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