Fearful Part 14: one better than 13!

[BurningSkies]

MontanBassDude and BurningSkies... you're both working with single mids and without horns..... how goes it? Thinking about adding anything?

Not at all. The 18 Sound mid is a high sensitivity, high volume SCREAMER. With one speaker, you need to pad it back with two it's just fine without a pad. I think if you check the plan for the two mid 1515/66 you'll see that the speakers are padded back together.

 

[smeet]

Not at all. The 18 Sound mid is a high sensitivity, high volume SCREAMER. With one speaker, you need to pad it back with two it's just fine without a pad. I think if you check the plan for the two mid 1515/66 you'll see that the speakers are padded back together.

Do you have a switch for the pad, or do you have it hardwired for no pad?

Also, I realize this is really a question for the fEARful forum, but why not have just a single unpadded mid in the design for the 1515/66 rather than two padded?

 

[BurningSkies]

Do you have a switch for the pad, or do you have it hardwired for no pad?

I have a switch. It looks like this:
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I've put up the wiring diagram for it as well a few times, but can't seem to come up with it right now, although greenboy has it on his site now too.

 

[RNV]

Hey Montana and Burning sky, I'm getting ready to order the same cabs you have but I have a concern. How stable are they stacked that way? I was thinking of going for the 15/6 Tube cab and turning the sub on its side for a more similar width between the two when stacking. Thanks in advance for your opinions. \m/

 

[MontanaBassDude]

If you opt for those corner protectors, they intrude inward enough that you've gotta position the rubber feet inward even further about an inch each, (which makes an even smaller footprint). But despite that, mine is totally stable (haven't even given it a thought. I can't speak on behalf of BurningSkies).
That said, when we have to set up on those cheesy banquet room folding risers, and when we're jumping, and the amps and cymbals are swaying, I'll be watching the Tower Of Terror, no doubt about it.

 

[BurningSkies]

I've been on a few of those bouncy stages too, and I actually do tend to move around, jump and hop a bit and I've never been concerned. The 15sub is actually deeper than the 15/6, so it makes a firm bass for the top cab:

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[RNV]

Thank you so much guys. It was nice to wake up and have a answers here waiting for me. I should get my check on the 28th and I'll be ordering supplies on the 29th!!! Then I'll be trading my BX1500 and BRX410 for a tube head.

 

[monsterthompson]

If you're standing right near your cab (within a few feet) you're getting a whole lot of that mid right in your ear. I found that what I was hearing in a small room (our practice room) or a tight stage was way more mid forward than what the cabinets were presenting further out. As I was standing at the cab to EQ what I was hearing, I was attenuating my mids needlessly, then not getting what I wanted out in the room.

These days, I play quite a bit in my living room at moderate volumes, and the mid-driver on the fEAR has me wondering if I will end up hearing the mids as being very present and having to tweak the EQ a bunch (the M6 isn't super flexy with the EQ options). When I tried Baer's ML112, I found the mid-driver made it harder to get the right balance of thicker bass sounds at lower volumes with my M6 and Dingwall ABZ5. When playing through my PH 115, the low volume low end is pretty easy to dial in. The M6 is obviously built to play with the PH cabs, and isn't the most powerful/flexy of EQ machines.

 

[BurningSkies]

These days, I play quite a bit in my living room at moderate volumes, and the mid-driver on the fEAR has me wondering if I will end up hearing the mids as being very present and having to tweak the EQ a bunch (the M6 isn't super flexy with the EQ options). When I tried Baer's ML112, I found the mid-driver made it harder to get the right balance of thicker bass sounds at lower volumes with my M6 and Dingwall ABZ5. When playing through my PH 115, the low volume low end is pretty easy to dial in. The M6 is obviously built to play with the PH cabs, and isn't the most powerful/flexy of EQ machines.

Well, there are options, I tells ya, options! You can get a cabinet with a switchable LPad for the mid. I know there's one builder out there who's done a 0/-3/-6 switching LPad for a cab or two. Or you could choose a pad of a greater value than the standard 3db. Or you could just EQ your mids down from your amp.

Having a prominent mid in your living room is a different situation than having one on stage or in a room when you're working with a handful of other people dependent upon your sound out in the room vs. near field.

 

[rpsands]

If you opt for those corner protectors, they intrude inward enough that you've gotta position the rubber feet inward even further about an inch each, (which makes an even smaller footprint). But despite that, mine is totally stable (haven't even given it a thought. I can't speak on behalf of BurningSkies).
That said, when we have to set up on those cheesy banquet room folding risers, and when we're jumping, and the amps and cymbals are swaying, I'll be watching the Tower Of Terror, no doubt about it.

Trick I learned from Leland on corners...

You can use the same screw to hold rubber feet and the corner protector's bottom hole. At least with the metal cab corners. This worked great on my 1515/66

 

[rpsands]

These days, I play quite a bit in my living room at moderate volumes, and the mid-driver on the fEAR has me wondering if I will end up hearing the mids as being very present and having to tweak the EQ a bunch (the M6 isn't super flexy with the EQ options). When I tried Baer's ML112, I found the mid-driver made it harder to get the right balance of thicker bass sounds at lower volumes with my M6 and Dingwall ABZ5. When playing through my PH 115, the low volume low end is pretty easy to dial in. The M6 is obviously built to play with the PH cabs, and isn't the most powerful/flexy of EQ machines.

There are definitely some challenges getting the right heft on all of the strings with the midrange driver + high excursion woofer cabinets.

Alex Claber explains this a lot in his article here:
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I found that I had to go over my setup with a fine tooth comb, especially with the Dingwall. The stock Dingwall string gauges are a bit off for a balanced sound--the E string needs a bit more and so does the D/G. The A and B strings seem perfect.

You can try to correct some of this with pickup height but honestly I think what is needed is internal magnet height adjustment on the Dingwall pickups, or using a balanced set of strings.

I've started assembling my own custom gauges of Ken Smith strings and will report out on how that works soon.

 

[monsterthompson]

Well, there are options, I tells ya, options! You can get a cabinet with a switchable LPad for the mid. I know there's one builder out there who's done a 0/-3/-6 switching LPad for a cab or two. Or you could choose a pad of a greater value than the standard 3db. Or you could just EQ your mids down from your amp.

Having a prominent mid in your living room is a different situation than having one on stage or in a room when you're working with a handful of other people dependent upon your sound out in the room vs. near field.

Pad options sound useful. I agree that the living room vs stage values are different. In tems of pro/con, and being broad-stroke general, let us say:
Tone A (low volume, small setting): PH115 > ML112
Tone B (high volume, big setting): PH115 < ML112
I found that the value and usefulness of the ML112 Tone B win was by a small margin and the ML112 Tone A loss was by a big enough margin that on an overall-value I'd take the PH115. No slam against the Baer, as even Roger will tell you that his design for the ML112 was for a good sounding portable rig, while the PH is just built to sound HUGE without considering portablity. Since I'm looking for a light cab that will do duty in my living room practice sessions and in a full stage setting, I've been thinking about mid-driver cabs like fEARful and Baer vs Audiokinesis and Barefaced without mid-divers. I'm willing to sacrifice a little in each setting, and don't think I can go horribly wrong with any of the choices I'm looking at. I'm also quite happy with my M6 head, but aware that it isn't the most flexy of EQ devices, so the less radical I need to be with knob adjustments, the better.

There are definitely some challenges getting the right heft on all of the strings with the midrange driver + high excursion woofer cabinets.

Alex Claber explains this a lot in his article here:
Link Removed

I found that I had to go over my setup with a fine tooth comb, especially with the Dingwall. The stock Dingwall string gauges are a bit off for a balanced sound--the E string needs a bit more and so does the D/G. The A and B strings seem perfect.

You can try to correct some of this with pickup height but honestly I think what is needed is internal magnet height adjustment on the Dingwall pickups, or using a balanced set of strings.

I've started assembling my own custom gauges of Ken Smith strings and will report out on how that works soon.

Interesting observation. Do you find using a compressor helps the balance? Also interested in your string-theory results

 

[rpsands]

I use a compressor and it helps some, but it's not the best compressor. Adding the DHA VT-2 actually balanced my strings more than anything has so far.

I've had some talks with Sheldon about the strings and I believe he is beefing up the E-strings by .05 in the newer Dingwall sets, but I could be wrong.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

Instead of building 2- 15/6 cabs, I decided on the 15/6/1 + 15/6 sub. The x-over/lo pass for the sub is so that 15" driver reproduces same frequencies, rolls off at the same 750Hz or so as the 15" driver in the 15/6?
Also, I just need to make a toggle to take the mid pad out of the circuit when using both cabs based on what I just read.

 

[greenboy]

Before getting carried away with padding switches and multiple resistor banks, as always I suggest (and pretty much what Alex is suggesting), ditch whatever EQ habits you think work with this that or the other cab and start fresh with your EQ approach.

Know your head/preamp EQ facilities, and experiment. And acclimatize to a new cab's basic voicing for awhile at varying locations before getting carried away too much. A couple days really playing in on a different box begins to shift your listening markers somewhat.

 

[rpsands]

And don't forget your bass setup. Honest cabs really expose a bad bass setup.

 

[shoot-r]

I know there's boutique cabinet builders that are offering Greenboy's Earfull designed cabinets, and Avatar's "close" design...
I was wondering if any of the major cabinet manufacturers, (Genz-Benz, Gallien-Krueger, Eden, Ampeg, ect., ect.), are expressing any interest in offering this design?

 

[wcriley]

And don't forget your bass setup. Honest cabs really expose a bad bass setup.

Last saturday I bought a new/old stock bass guitar that had been in the store for 2 years. I played it and a bass I'd brought from home through a Trace combo to compare the sound. Sounded fine to me.

Took the new bass home, played through my fEARful and heard distortion that wasn't apparent in the store. After a moment of panic (thinking something was wrong with my rig) it dawned on me: The battery was several years old and needed replaced, something I hadn't noticed through the amp in the store.

 

[canadian*eh]

Just had to share a pic of my "66" setup on stage during the black history month concert in Edmonton here last weekend!! Had an 810 last year and I have to say that 810 did not hold a candle to the fEARful. It was truly a pleasure for both me, the other players and for the sound men mixing the sound on stage. So clean and even sounding no matter where one stood on stage!! Never played through such a punchy clean cab with a bottom end that does not fart out!! I gave every other bass player there the fEARful fEVEr. Feel kinda guilty for making them all dissatisfied with their bass cabs. But hey I guess it just means that many more bass players looking into fEARful what could be wrong with that???

 

[rpsands]

Last saturday I bought a new/old stock bass guitar that had been in the store for 2 years. I played it and a bass I'd brought from home through a Trace combo to compare the sound. Sounded fine to me.

Took the new bass home, played through my fEARful and heard distortion that wasn't apparent in the store. After a moment of panic (thinking something was wrong with my rig) it dawned on me: The battery was several years old and needed replaced, something I hadn't noticed through the amp in the store.

Yep, you can take this story and repeat it with about 10 different common setup flaws that get hidden by the distortion in a typical bass cab. Pole pieces too high, action out of whack, pickup too low/high, trim pot on the preamp too low or high, dead battery, buzzing fret, dead string, dead spot, etc.

Lots of people say things like "bad technique becomes obvious with XX amp/cab" but that's also true of fEarfuls. If your right hand technique is inconsistent, it will pop up. If your left hand technique is sloppy, you'll hear it (unless you scoop out 800/1200/1600/2500 enough).

IME, lots of folks have developed compensatory right hand technique to make up for the differences in tension in strings and the differences in sensitivity in different regions of cabinets, that needs to be revisited.