Feel vs Chops..which do you prefer or think is more important?

[Ellery]

I realize there isn't an easy way to answer this, but give the choice between a chops player and a guy without amazing chops but great feel, I'll take the feel player any day.

I had a chance to play with a drummer recently who is touring with a national act, and it was really one of the more interesting experiences I've had recently.

Biggest thing I noticed about the guy is that his playing style was not technical at all, it seemed very simple and rudimentary to me but he did enough stuff to keep it interesting.

The groove we had going on was really something else as well, it's rare that I lock into a drummer the way he and I locked into each other. Lots of other guys I play with are more technical in their playing, which I think sometimes makes for a lesser groove.

If one does not have feel... can they even HAVE chops?

 

[MJ_Sotti]

jaco didn’t have feel

edit: albeit he had an emotional disease/disorder

Have you ever heard any of the Wayne Cochran and the CC Riders stuff with Jaco in it? You're wrong.

 

[Rebel Rocker]

Feel first, always... then chops, used wisely.

In the past year I've learned lots of tunes I never would have even heard or listened to, if I weren't getting paid to play them. What I'm discovering is that there are a lot of bassists out there these days that really know how to get a balance of chops and feel going. Most of em are playing country music, too. The new R&R, IMO.

For some reason this song really jumped out at me... if you listen closely (to the whole song), this guy can play, but never gets carried away. He stays totally in the mix throughout. He also builds as the song goes on. This is the kind of bass line writing I work towards. And FWIW, the playing in my FAIK video (in my sig) was intentionally self indulgent. I never play that way.



PS. I LOVE playing this song.

That's James Cook that guy is a bad boy on bass. James has toured/recorded/performed with Tracy Byrd, Steve Wariner, The Doobie Brothers, Jason Aldean, Jace Everett, Jedd Hughes, Matt King, Rhett Akins, Brad Martin, Sarah Buxton, Al Perkins, Sam Bush, Victor Wooten, Josh Thompson, Thompson Square, Easton Corbin, Rodney Crowell, Vince Gill, Joanna Cotten, James Burton, Howard Shaft, and The Box Tops to names a few.

 

[juggahnaught]

Are we talking about drummers specifically, as in your initial comment?

If so, chops. Chops all day.

Feel is subjective and it's more of a band thing than a singer player thing (although, admittedly, a musician on a trap set is arguably playing many instruments, and they all work together).

Give me a technical player with chops who understands music and I'm likely to take him or her because that player will be able to articulate rhythmic ideas and play in different styles. A technical player with chops can likely play jazz, bossa, latin rhythms, calypso-style afro stuff, disco, rock, country, you name it. (I'm aspiring to this position myself - can't play jazz for poopie and my chops are lacking.) That versatility allows for a lot of musical expression when playing existing material, but they also bring more to the table when they write music because they have the vocabulary to do so. By working together, you can establish feel if they understand music and actively listen.

This is assuming that they're musicians, not just instrument players. You know what I mean. If they're just instrument players all bets are off.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Nope, that's because of "feel".



All of this still relates to "feel".

"Chops" is a combination of harmony/theory knowledge and technical skill (ie double dumb/double pluck, 16th notes at 200 bpm, etc.)

You may choose to define it differently, but that is how the vernacular is used by 99% percent of the musical community.

The all time greats like Jamerson and Jaco had high levels of both feel and chops.

I like your comments but I tend to disagree this comment.
Feel without technical backup is just that big bird in the sky.
We say that drummer has good chops because the drummer showed us a certificate about completion of some solid Harmony courses/theory classes.drool

 

[Kmonk]

thank you!

since when did chops only refer to fast and technical playing? i used to hear it used to mean skill.

I didn't say chops "only" refers to playing fast.

 

[dennis james]

90% feel, 10% chops. or maybe it's 95-5. maybe 99-1...…………(insert appropriate emoji)

 

[pcake]

I didn't say chops "only" refers to playing fast.

no but some of the posts in this thread seem to indicate that it does.

 

[Vertigo Jones]

I realize there isn't an easy way to answer this, but give the choice between a chops player and a guy without amazing chops but great feel, I'll take the feel player any day.

I had a chance to play with a drummer recently who is touring with a national act, and it was really one of the more interesting experiences I've had recently.

Biggest thing I noticed about the guy is that his playing style was not technical at all, it seemed very simple and rudimentary to me but he did enough stuff to keep it interesting.

The groove we had going on was really something else as well, it's rare that I lock into a drummer the way he and I locked into each other. Lots of other guys I play with are more technical in their playing, which I think sometimes makes for a lesser groove.

I think it’s a false dilemma. Put it this way, you just typed a few paragraphs expressing how you feel about technical drummers. You couldn’t have done that had you not first learned the rules of grammar, spelling, punctuation, verb conjugation, subject/predicate, conjunction junction...what’s your function?

I’m certain as you were typing you weren’t thinking about phonics or grammatical rules....you simply expressed yourself.

It’s not an either or proposition AFAIC.

 

[Stewy Lj]

My vote is feel and groove, locking in. Only mentioning for the sake of the subject, but I was selected over a player who had better chops than me and I know the cat...killer player. But, I was able to lock in and groove and catch the improv stuff, which got me the gig. And who doesn't love locking in with a killer drummer and laying down a groove.

 

[Acoop]

Sorry to say but, 50% of all bassist have no groove. ... Saying that, 10% are natural and are great players. .. But, the other 40% can catch the changes and repeat it but, they can't groove. ... Goove is a real hard commitment. ... You're born with the groove, plan and simple. ... It's in the way you walk and in the way you talk. ... The rest is really, really hard work. ... You can achive it but, you're going to have to work for it. ... Step one, change the way you walk and talk. ... Be commited and have compassion in what you say and what you do. ... Choose the things in your life you care for and don't leave them to chance. ... Then, maybe, one day, when you're on stage and someone turns to you and smiles then, you'll know you are on to something. ... Achivement is our choice.

 

[TheDominoKid]

I like apples and oranges equally but depending on the day one wins out.

 

[TheDominoKid]

Lack of chops won't kill a song.

Lack of feel will.

I think that’s the winning comment.

 

[dennis james]

I would like to continue with my premise that “chops” are not scales.
Let’s look at that quarter note.
Immediately, I see it as minimum four 16ths while I am trying to articulate it based on my/required “feel”.
Sometimes, I need that quarter note be “2/16ths and 1/32 long”, sometimes I need to incorporate even the 64th(what) for my “feel”.
Next, I need to be technical enough to repeat the same articulation several times, or be able to switch my next quarter note’s articulation to something different. And I am talking about just a quarter note played as Root.
Here is my question.
If I need to articulate the quarter note as “two 16ths, one 32nd, and one 64th” long, what level of “chops” should I have?
P.S. And I have not said anything about “playing behind/before the beat...” or dynamics.

huh?

 

[dennis james]

Can someone post a vid or audio clip of someone without feel and someone with feel ? So I can understand

Thanks

not going to post a video, but feel is pretty much the same thing as "dynamics". that means you feel the song your playing. you know when to attack a note a little harder or when to back off a little. subtle things that make a big difference. the whole band has to be on the same page with it. it's what keeps you from sounding like a bunch of robots.

 

[phillipkregg]

Chops. Totes for real.

If you can't slap 80 notes per second, what are you doing with your life?

/sarcasm

 

[jnuts1]

you can't have chops if you don't have feel

 

[dennis james]

Chops. Totes for real.

If you can't slap 80 notes per second, what are you doing with your life?

/sarcasm

must learn to slap 80 notes per second. how else are you going to impress people at your local GC?

 

[Big Shrek]

That's a pop tune IMO. Putting 'country' in the song title and singing about catfish and crickets doesn't make it a country song. It's a well written and produced pop song, and the bass line is good, but I think it's masquerading as country to target a specific audience.

That's the majority of "Country" lately...it's also the reason all the Oldies Country stations
are doing so very well with the 50's 60's 70's & 80's stuff.

Dang me if I don't miss George Jones getting schnockered and riding down the road
on a riding lawnmower, and then writing a song about the arrest

 

[Clef_de_fa]

not going to post a video, but feel is pretty much the same thing as "dynamics". that means you feel the song your playing. you know when to attack a note a little harder or when to back off a little. subtle things that make a big difference. the whole band has to be on the same page with it. it's what keeps you from sounding like a bunch of robots.

Then this thread is pointless you can’t do that without some technic « chop »