TL/DR 17 pages. I think it's great to see a female bassist. Especially one who can sing. Yes female bassists are not as common, which IMO makes it even better when they're doing an awesome job. I don't see any reason they couldn't dress to look the style of the music any better/worse than a guy could. And the female voice definitely adds to the potential list of songs that can be done.
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Female bassists and your thoughts...
- Thread starter Zekkis09
- Start date
I am really interested on the geographic aspect of these opinions. I have lived in three quite different cultural areas of the US.
Where I live now most of the comments about gender wouldn't even come into play. We have a great pool of super cool and talented musicians (not all of them) dedicated to creating new music. Our scene is mostly original music that stems from alt-rock to noise to hip-hop to folk. I have been in several bands over the last few years and all but one were mixed gender bands. This scene is dedicated to inclusivity of all kinds of peoples and attempts to create a supportive environment for everyone to express themselves.
Back home, the type of gigs that exist are all country/rock cover & bar scene gigs (think rural). The same kind of inclusiveness wasn't as prevalent. As I was allowed to go to bars regularly for music at a very young age and I was supported when I decided to follow that route; none of my female peers were in that same position, not one. The cultural understanding there was that girls weren't allowed to be in seedy dive bars at mid-night, but us boys could be.
Well, not sure the point but you better believe that my daughter is right there at all the shows, watching all these awesome women kick ass and spark inspiration!
ps. her brother is right up front with her too, and they both can't wait to get their shot on stage.
Where I live now most of the comments about gender wouldn't even come into play. We have a great pool of super cool and talented musicians (not all of them) dedicated to creating new music. Our scene is mostly original music that stems from alt-rock to noise to hip-hop to folk. I have been in several bands over the last few years and all but one were mixed gender bands. This scene is dedicated to inclusivity of all kinds of peoples and attempts to create a supportive environment for everyone to express themselves.
Back home, the type of gigs that exist are all country/rock cover & bar scene gigs (think rural). The same kind of inclusiveness wasn't as prevalent. As I was allowed to go to bars regularly for music at a very young age and I was supported when I decided to follow that route; none of my female peers were in that same position, not one. The cultural understanding there was that girls weren't allowed to be in seedy dive bars at mid-night, but us boys could be.
Well, not sure the point but you better believe that my daughter is right there at all the shows, watching all these awesome women kick ass and spark inspiration!
ps. her brother is right up front with her too, and they both can't wait to get their shot on stage.
I'm so regretting for necroposting this thread. I have never thought that my reply will lead to ugly fight between two sides of evil - sjw's and "woman is a problem"-guys. THE ONLY reason I replied is to defend in-band romance and freedom of musical communications, that's it!
Try to understand me, please.
If you want to play - go and play
If you're a male or female - for music there's no difference
If you're not "pretty chick" or "pretty boy" - go and play, that "chicks" at most cases can't play good, you'll beat em!
Music has no gender, beauty or toughness boundaries, the only boundary - is your skills and ability to do something
If you want to marry\date someone in your band - go for it, if you not - you loose guaranteed, cuz it will make you suffer more than if you go ahead.
End of the story.
BUT, for all those sjw ladies I have to say: where is the difference between sexism and normal sexuality? We are living in not puritan society! Men like women and vice versa, what's the problem? How came, saying "that girl on the scene is hot" makes me a sexist? Also, every person DO objectificating other people, always. If I see "hot" woman, I will like her as a woman, and not always I will think about her spirituality. And other people actually see me as 'bearded man', or "physical object" or 'sexual/ugly guy' - this is OK. Why I can't?
And why the hell if men enjoying women's sexuality is "dirty" or "disgusting"? Sanctimony as it is... I'll wonder if women not do the same things.
About amounts of men\women in metal music - do you think, it's because of restrictions or something? No, if girl likes metal - she will be good accepted by the community, but it's too few of them, and we really desire more of them here, but... they don't want. Just they not listen to it at most. No reason to blame men in this situation.
Try to understand me too:
If audience likes you because you are pretty or sexy - it's OK!
If you are using this to band image - great, that's aperchiated (but, if u can't play\sing - all your chickness or sexuality won't help you avoid shame)
If somebody gathering a band with own principles - ok. It might be girl band or boys band or mixed, just find yours
Stop to blame all men, stop to butthurt on men like women etc.
Otherwise, you should ban sexuality and love at all, no romances, no falls-in-love, no gender images, just serious place, where some people gathered to play and listen music. Wearing same suits.
Really, Jo Bench playing bass in death metal band since 80's, when there was no women at all in extreme metal. Why you can't? I know one of female bass players, there, in Moscow, she is awesome, and she's never was criticized because she's a woman! Maybe, it's time to stop offending and start to practice and searching a band? Look at all these youtube cute female bassists - they playing good, they not crying, they working. You want to populate music with women - go and play. Or inspire 10 women to do it. But, please not for proving something to all men, not for gender wars, just for music itself and your dreams.
All is very simple: you have a dream\wish - you go and work on it.
Try to understand me, please.
If you want to play - go and play
If you're a male or female - for music there's no difference
If you're not "pretty chick" or "pretty boy" - go and play, that "chicks" at most cases can't play good, you'll beat em!
Music has no gender, beauty or toughness boundaries, the only boundary - is your skills and ability to do something
If you want to marry\date someone in your band - go for it, if you not - you loose guaranteed, cuz it will make you suffer more than if you go ahead.
End of the story.
BUT, for all those sjw ladies I have to say: where is the difference between sexism and normal sexuality? We are living in not puritan society! Men like women and vice versa, what's the problem? How came, saying "that girl on the scene is hot" makes me a sexist? Also, every person DO objectificating other people, always. If I see "hot" woman, I will like her as a woman, and not always I will think about her spirituality. And other people actually see me as 'bearded man', or "physical object" or 'sexual/ugly guy' - this is OK. Why I can't?
And why the hell if men enjoying women's sexuality is "dirty" or "disgusting"? Sanctimony as it is... I'll wonder if women not do the same things.
About amounts of men\women in metal music - do you think, it's because of restrictions or something? No, if girl likes metal - she will be good accepted by the community, but it's too few of them, and we really desire more of them here, but... they don't want. Just they not listen to it at most. No reason to blame men in this situation.
Try to understand me too:
If audience likes you because you are pretty or sexy - it's OK!
If you are using this to band image - great, that's aperchiated (but, if u can't play\sing - all your chickness or sexuality won't help you avoid shame)
If somebody gathering a band with own principles - ok. It might be girl band or boys band or mixed, just find yours
Stop to blame all men, stop to butthurt on men like women etc.
Otherwise, you should ban sexuality and love at all, no romances, no falls-in-love, no gender images, just serious place, where some people gathered to play and listen music. Wearing same suits.
Really, Jo Bench playing bass in death metal band since 80's, when there was no women at all in extreme metal. Why you can't? I know one of female bass players, there, in Moscow, she is awesome, and she's never was criticized because she's a woman! Maybe, it's time to stop offending and start to practice and searching a band? Look at all these youtube cute female bassists - they playing good, they not crying, they working. You want to populate music with women - go and play. Or inspire 10 women to do it. But, please not for proving something to all men, not for gender wars, just for music itself and your dreams.
All is very simple: you have a dream\wish - you go and work on it.
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A final addition from me, I think, it should be said.
All this thread is painful to read for all - men, women, anyway)
Let's not consider women as a problem or just sexy chick and nothing more.
Let's not consider men as "hungry dirty machos" just because they like sexuality, which is healthy, and all women do exactly the same.
We should play bass and respect each other. You want to play? Go and play, this is only that is needed. Sex, style, beauty, weight - no matter. Weight is unhealthy, tho, but... cmon, it's not matter for music.
Before this thread I didn't thought that problem exists - I play with 2 females in a band, I know female bassist, female guitarist and female drummer personally (yeah, girls heavy metal band), my vocal teacher is female (also, she is owner of this school) - maybe, here is not a problem at all.
All this thread is painful to read for all - men, women, anyway)
Let's not consider women as a problem or just sexy chick and nothing more.
Let's not consider men as "hungry dirty machos" just because they like sexuality, which is healthy, and all women do exactly the same.
We should play bass and respect each other. You want to play? Go and play, this is only that is needed. Sex, style, beauty, weight - no matter. Weight is unhealthy, tho, but... cmon, it's not matter for music.
Before this thread I didn't thought that problem exists - I play with 2 females in a band, I know female bassist, female guitarist and female drummer personally (yeah, girls heavy metal band), my vocal teacher is female (also, she is owner of this school) - maybe, here is not a problem at all.
I don't agree with the statement "a girl in the band just wouldn't look right". In fact, I want to see more of them.
Uhm.... Seems, in your world, men are stinky maggots, that search for female musicians only for "make them play root notes" or "get the chicks". So, if they don't want to take a girl in a band - it's bad. If they wants to take a girl in a band - it's bad.
Men are so ugly dirty losers, they can't done right not only the thing in their lives.
By the way, I actually prefer play roots and simple grooves in 70% cases, cuz they're pwns.
I treat them as humans, but why the hell I can't be... okay, not amazed (nothing unusual in female bassists now), but delighted by girl musician, because of I like women biologically? Seems, the word "misogynic" nowdays used as multitool for everything, that men do. Why you don't consider this as misandric crap?
Okay, is subscriptions on female bassist's youtube channels misogynic? I DARE like them, because I love bass guitar and women. And yes, I will do so even if majority of bass players will be females, because they're 1) good players 2) I like to look at women.
Who cares, that I treat them as humans also, MISOGYNIC! Could we breath without being treated as "abusers"? It becomes unbearable.
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sorry, I'm not sure I get the point) I'm not "enlightened", lolSome day we will be as enlightened as yourself.
Okay, is a woman, who looks at male musician and finds him attractive or sexual misandric? Is girls band, that searches male bassist for image (and good bass, sure) misandric? Don't think so.
Oh, btw, if my texts looks little strange or illiterate - I just learnong English, so, my apologies to those, who read it
As I mentioned before (countless of times) - I'm literally surrounded by female musicians, for me it's not a big deal. Maybe, in Moscow there's not a problem, I don't know, how female musicians treated in provincial towns.Some day we will be as enlightened as yourself.
If all that you wrote above is truth, then whole genre of "female fronted metal" is misogynic. But it isn't, and all that beauties get a lot of respect.
So, maybe, problems there still exists, and that's why women react SO painful on everything about hiring in bands, but... I didn't saw this in my social circles.
If the band has a specific image and doesn't want a female member, that's their choice. There are plenty of all female bands that don't want male members too. It's really a band image choice. This is entertainment, not an equal opportunity hive job. You have to be pretty thick skinned regardless of your gender if you want to survive in entertainment industry.
The funniest thing about this - is that you don't need thick skin. One should treat this as just "image issues", not "gender issues" and just relax and keep searching further, that's enough. How many nerves would be saved.)
I can see the PC crowd coming out of the woodwork....*rolls eyes*....bands are private organizations/partnerships. They can hire whom they wish. They have the right to hire whom they don't wish to hire for WHATEVER reason. That's life.
Nah. When people are bringing something as archaic and ridiculous as the 'Billy Graham Rule' into anotherwise civilised discussion then you need some sort of robust counterpoint.
Agreed with both of you now. Billy Graham rule is silly, but I can't deny that QORC is right in last reply. Bands may do whatever they want, it's not an office job and appearance MAY be important, may be not.
That is a good point. The more my band get involved in producing an album, promoting it, getting gigs the more it feels like a job! We're a UK band, and were contemplating signing up for PRS (etc) to get a trickle of money back every time and obscure Internet radio station play one of our tunes...
Only there isn't an HR department, any sort of union and no industrial tribunal if you get fired. No anti-discrimination hiring policy either. It is a world where you can say "you're too fat/too old/too ugly/too good/you suck/you don't suit our image/you don't take enough drugs" and these are legitimate arguments for not hiring a bassist.
A family member is a professional classical musician, and it is the exact same story. Lesser musicians are recruited into orchestras depending on who they are sleeping with, who their father is or how they look onstage... people are silently blacklisted for petty, personal reasons. Again, an orchestra doesn't have an HR department, and if you complain too much you basically poison your own well.
I think I'm basing my own thoughts too much on the sort of bassist gigs I would personally get, which is either through the local grapevine or from Craigslist/Gumtree listings. I doubt Pino, JMJ, Bobby Vega have to go through these hoops.
If you can't keep your Billy Graham in your pants, then it might be a good rule for you.
Honestly, this sentence is too dogmatic to be correct) What if you don't mean occasional sex or changes, but real romance? You just can't deny this side of humans, and this is not the reason to not hire a woman.
Otherwise, you should do everything in your life, avoiding contact with women, except woman that you married. Music is not a monastery. And there are thousands of great examples of romances\couples in music or other arts\businesses. Our guitarist and keyboardist are married on each other, I was married on our vocalist, and band still exists with no problems.
There's no rules in handling relationships in band, and this is great.
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>Only there isn't an HR department, any sort of union and no industrial tribunal if you get fired.That is a good point. The more my band get involved in producing an album, promoting it, getting gigs the more it feels like a job! We're a UK band, and were contemplating signing up for PRS (etc) to get a trickle of money back every time and obscure Internet radio station play one of our tunes...
Only there isn't an HR department, any sort of union and no industrial tribunal if you get fired. No anti-discrimination hiring policy either. It is a world where you can say "you're too fat/too old/too ugly/too good/you suck/you don't suit our image/you don't take enough drugs" and these are legitimate arguments for not hiring a bassist.
A family member is a professional classical musician, and it is the exact same story. Lesser musicians are recruited into orchestras depending on who they are sleeping with, who their father is or how they look onstage... people are silently blacklisted for petty, personal reasons. Again, an orchestra doesn't have an HR department, and if you complain too much you basically poison your own well.
I think I'm basing my own thoughts too much on the sort of bassist gigs I would personally get, which is either through the local grapevine or from Craigslist/Gumtree listings. I doubt Pino, JMJ, Bobby Vega have to go through these hoops.
And that's the best part!) Morals only valuable if comes from your inner decisions. Band is not the "job", where you can just don't give a dck about people around, because they are just functions. Band - is totally different - you should like all it's members and be friends or couples, and there may be some image things and personal tastes, which is ok.
Otherwise, all that flood of rules and issues, that comes from sjw lynch mob remains approach of Dolores Ambridge (epic sanctimonic red-tape character from Harry Potter) - too many rules and "moral" pressure.
Orchestra is deeply different - it's something similar to regular work with chiefs, salary etc. And there we can consider all this as discrimination. Band is completely different game.
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Haha, typical old conservative BS.
Me: "Women don't exist solely to be objects of sexual arousal for men. They should be treated as equals and held to the same standards as men. Especially considering they make up more than half of the population. Treat them like humans and not sex dolls."
Old conservatives: "THIS PC CULTURE IS DESTROYING AMERICA!"
Me: "Women don't exist solely to be objects of sexual arousal for men. They should be treated as equals and held to the same standards as men. Especially considering they make up more than half of the population. Treat them like humans and not sex dolls."
Old conservatives: "THIS PC CULTURE IS DESTROYING AMERICA!"
