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Fender Japan : Hollowbody Jazz

#41
landau roof said:
That's like saying the brakes on your car don't "cure" the inertia of it moving.
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That's like claiming because you took pain killers and can't feel it anymore your leg isn't really broken.
A strap is like an aspirin.
Maybe it's all you need.
Maybe it's the only solution you have available.
It won't ever make your leg not broken though.
If a strap keeps the headstock pointing in playing position when your hands are off the neck, what else is there to care about?
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The added real weight on your shoulder that a neck diving instrument produces is something to care about. Weight is a big deal to a lot of people and I'm not sure some understand how many extra pounds (yes pounds) of pressure on your shoulder can be applied through leverage of a neck heavy bass.

I appreciate that a strap may solve the issue for some people and I'm not saying it won't. The only problem I have is when you say it will solve the problem for everyone when it clearly that just isn't true.
 
#42
The correct strap can solve the problem of neck dive for anyone. The weight on the shoulder is a separate issue. People who are that sensitive will unfortunately have to be more selective with the balance of their instruments. Or they might have to roll with a harness.
 
#43
landau roof said:
The correct strap can solve the problem for neck dive for anyone. The weight on the shoulder is a separate issue. People who are that sensitive will unfortunately have to be more selective with the balance of their instruments.
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After many years, many basses and using just about every kind of strap you could imagine (and a couple you probably couldn't) I'm calling BS. A sticky strap only does so much but if you take your hands off a neck heavy bass after a few minutes under most circumstances it will slide...and depending on the shirt or jacket you're wearing it may slide emmediately. So how does it not slide when you're playing? You're holding it up by applying extra force with your right forearm or worse cradling it with your left hand.

And the added weight is NOT a separate issue. A sticky strap that passes the leverage onto the shoulder does not necessarily "solve" the problem. Sometimes it just transfers it. I can never figure out why guys like you insist on telling us all about what works for everyone when clearly your experience is limited to what works for you. I'm not telling you a wide, sticky strap won't make some neck diving basses playable for some people. So why are you telling me that a wide, sticky strap will make all neck diving basses playable for all people? Think about it.
 
#45
The added weight is a separate issue, even if necessarily related. It's just that some are more sensitive to it than others.

But I'm willing to concede for the most part, here. I can't argue that you haven't found a solution that fits you.
 
#47
landau roof said:
The added weight is a separate issue, even if necessarily related. It's just that some are more sensitive to it than others.

But I'm willing to concede for the most part, here. I can't argue that you haven't found a solution that fits you. You've probably already, but try a harness, ZZ Top style.
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I can agree to disagree about the weight.

You mean the ZZ Top belt style on they do the spins on? I looked at that but I play way to high for that to work for me. These days I just use instruments that are balanced. If I'd been smart enough to figure that one out a few years earlier I wouldn't have so damned much experience ****ing around with straps...or so many opinions about them. ;)
 
#50
landau roof said:
Well, that's the part you're completely wrong about. If the bass stays in playing position, then neck dive is cured. If it causes your shoulder to hurt...
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[sigh}
Aw, man....really???
How many basses and straps combos are you directly experienced with? It sounds like your arguments are more theory based than experience based. I guarantee you that no strap will 100% cure the neck dive in every bass like you're claiming. Thinking it will is a fantasy.
 
#51
jeffbonny said:
[sigh}
Aw, man....really???
How many basses and straps combos are you directly experienced with? It sounds like your arguments are more theory based than experience based. I guarantee you that no strap will 100% cure the neck dive in every bass like you're claiming. Thinking it will is a fantasy.
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I concede that there may be a guitar, strap, human, clothing combo that can't find harmony. It's you're inability to separate the fundamentals that is flawed. The post you initially questioned was specifically about neck dive.
 
#52
landau roof said:
I concede that there may be a guitar, strap, human, clothing combo that can't find harmony. It's you're inability to separate the fundamentals that is flawed.
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My ability to see the mechanical reality of a situation is perfectly sound. I may not be an engineer but in addition to being sensitive to neck heavy basses my day gig deals with weight, friction and leverage to the point that screwing it up would easily kill people. If anything is flawed it's your ability to understand the problem is more complex than just friction.

And you totally dodged my question. I'm assuming your strap theory is based on a couple of straps and maybe a half dozen basses.
 
#53
jeffbonny said:
My ability to see the mechanical reality of a situation is perfectly sound. I may not be an engineer but in addition to being sensitive to neck heavy basses my day gig deals with weight, friction and leverage to the point that screwing it up would easily kill people. If anything is flawed it's your ability to understand the problem is more complex than just friction.

And you totally dodged my question. I'm assuming your strap theory is based on a couple of straps and maybe a half dozen basses.
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My "strap theory" is based on that if a bass neck dives, there is a strap out there that will keep it in place. You're right. It's based on friction, and I didn't account for ill-fitting, shoulder-pad blazers, weird body shapes, etc. And so, I'm willing to admit it was too simple.

Your inability to understand that two separate problems, however related, are two separate problems is what I still disagree with.
 

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