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Fender Lame-o American design experience Fail
- Thread starter Kirk Bryant
- Start date
You got my hopes up. Thought I could finally get a 19mm SR5. But not in black...
Yes. But by the same token there's also something called "managing customer expectations" which wise companies pay careful attention to doing.
Managing customer expectations takes two forms:
1) Don't offer - or appear to be offering - something you are unable or unwilling to deliver. Failure to do so can expose you to possible legal sanctions if a court or government regulatory agency determines that a reasonable person, without expertise in the finer points of your business or industry, would draw the wrong conclusion, or make a bad decision for themselves based on what you are advertising.
......
Not to knock Fender (too much) but in the case of their "design" offering, they're really not letting you 'design' anything. They're offering a fairly small and fixed number of personalization options. You aren't for one second designing anything through their service. You're effectively walking through their stockroom, looking in their part bins, and picking components from their existing inventory of already designed and manufactured parts. And those choices don't include every part they sell, or option they offer. Just a fairly focused subset.
In short - you get to have them bolt together the equivalent of a FrankenBass or FrankenGuitar. Even the 'custom' shop is a bit of a misnomer in that regard. It's 'tinker-toy manufacturing.' Not custom crafting.
.......
Custom luthier shops and botique designers can do that. Fedora comes very close to doing it. Fender does not.
Maybe I'm being a little short with Fender. But I also worked for Fortune 500 (number 5 to be precise) and have run my own business for close to 30 years now. And as both an employee of someone else's company - and owner/president of my own - I'm painfully aware of how important it is not to play semantic games - either intentionally or (even more importantly) unintentionally - with one's customers.
Fender needs to clarify. And tone down some of their claims about "design" and "custom" offerings. Because it's not only the right thing to do. It's the smart thing to do.
Or so I think anyway.
Please get over the corporate credentials. Big deal. You worked for Apple (if we're looking at the current rankings). In the past decade plus I've worked for companies in the Top 10 and Top 50 of the Fortune 500. And I've seen plenty of people who didn't belong in those corporations manage to hang onto careers. Large manufacturing corporations of that scale are not comparable to a MI manufacturer like Fender because of the fact that Fender is manufacturing products that are for a narrow market like musicians.
You maintain that Fender has misled customers. How? Where in Fender's presentation for the American Design Experience are they using the word CUSTOM? This seems to be the big disconnect that some are clearly misunderstanding. Just look at the copy from the Fender American Design Experience page:
Did they use the word CUSTOM at all? I certainly don't see it in there. In fact, the only real custom option is at the end of the process, where the customer is asked if they want a custom engraving in the neck plate of the instrument. And why is that? Because Fender has another division called THE FENDER CUSTOM SHOP, where you can get an actual CUSTOM instrument. I suspect that this line of discussion about the Fender American Design Experience is happening because there are people who REALLY, REALLY want a Fender Custom Shop instrument but don't have the coin to make that happen. And let's face facts: not a lot of people have $4K or so sitting around for a custom instrument. So did these dreamers want the ADE to be the vehicle for their own Fender Custom Shop instrument at half the price? I suspect that's the subtext here. People want something great for far less money than it's actually worth, or people want to take part in America's new national pasttime: being outraged for no good reason.
What Fender IS doing is taking advantage of a market segment that has existed in their shadow for decades. There have been companies offering Fender licensed products for years which have enabled musicians to put together their own dream instruments. Anyone ever hear of Stew Mac, Mighty Mite, AllParts or Warmoth? Those companies have been at the heart of the parts instrument phenomenon for years, with some offering Fender licensed necks and bodies. And the business of those companies has been largely focused on aftermarket parts for Fender style instruments. Fender has stood by idly on the sidelines for years watching this all happen, effectively leaving a lot of money on the table. And musicians have lost out in that process because of any of a number of factors. Some aren't handy or knowledgeable enough to do their own modifications. That lack of knowledge or experience with instrument mods may result in an instrument that's not in line with their expectations. And traditionally these parts instruments have been financial losers for anyone who builds one. Warmoth instruments may be nice and very well tailored to the customers wishes. But do they have good resale value? A quick perusal of the classifieds will illustrate that's just not the case. With a Fender ADE instrument you might stand a better chance of recouping some of your investment because it's an officially recognized Fender instrument.
And while we're at it, trying to compare the Fender American Design Experience to a true master bass building shop like Fodera is ludicrous as well as insulting to Vinnie Fodera and Joe Lauricella. Fodera is a very small shop with incredible standards that are not the norm in the MI industry. And to even compare Fodera to the Fender Custom Shop isn't a fair comparison. And it's spelled FODERA, not Fedora.
Wow! That's quite a comeback even if I don't see where it's relevant or even accurate!
For the record, I don't have any "corporate credentials" to get over. I only mentioned my own life experience to give whoever was reading what I said some idea of the background I was coming from, and the things that influenced some of my thinking. Apparently you completely misunderstood my intent. I'm sorry you're annoyed with that part of my post because you did so.
(BTW...it wasn't Apple. If I felt the need to drop its name I would have done so. But the 'who' wasn't relevant to the post for the reason just previously given - so I left it out. If you personally feel the company name is important for some point you’re trying to make, just message me and I'll be happy to let you know which company it actually was.)
I can't know how because I never said Fender was misleading anybody. Nor did I accuse them of engaging in deceptive practices or anything remotely resembling them. So please extend me the courtesy of not trying to put words in my mouth.
The only place where I mentioned the issue of deception was early in the post where I was discussing the reasons for why managing customer expectations was so important to a business. And by "a business " I mean any business - not just Fender. It was to provide a general framework for some of the thinking found in the rest of the post. Since you missed what I was saying there I'll summarize it again:
1) There is this thing called "managing customer expectations." It's nothing new except maybe for the name. Smart businesses have been doing it forever.
2) It's important for any business, big or small, to do.
3) Because if you, as a business, make an offer that gets widely misinterpreted or misunderstood, there can be legal hassles and possible consequences if some regulatory agency decides it's deceptive, or was done with the intent to deceive. (Note: if a regulatory agency decides to go after you for something like that, it's important to remember that while it may be their interpretation of what you said - it's your problem. And a big one usually.)
4) Regardless of any legalities, if any what you're saying can be misinterpreted - it often will be.
5) If that happens, you really need to manage it.
I did look. And I didn't see it either. And I also didn't say they did.
I said that the "design experience" actually doesn't let you design anything - when I was speaking of that. Later on I said that the Custom Shop, in a similar manner, doesn't actually build custom instruments in the usually understood sense of the phrase "custom instruments." I said I felt it would really be much more accurate to say they personalize instruments rather than custom build them.
More a 'personalized' or 'custom-ized' instrument from where I'm sitting. But we can let that go.
It's just the green-eyed monster at work? Seriously? I don't think that's much a part (if any) of it as far as this particular forum thread goes. But I can't read minds, or peer into people's souls, like some people apparently can so all I can say is: If you say so.
I don't know where you're getting that from...but ok. If you say so.
Are you sure? There is such a thing as sticking to your core competencies and not branching off to pursue sub-business opportunities that could distract you from more completely focusing on your main business. Many companies made that mistake and paid dearly for it. Maybe Fender decided that the additional effort and risk wasn't worth it up until now?
What I really think it is is that with CNC machinery and advances in manufacturing technology it's now become possible to build a heavily personalized modular musical instrument without breaking too much a sweat - while still being able to sell such an instrument at a premium.
So I don't think Fender woke up one day and said "Hey! We're giving business away!!" I think it went something more like this:
-------------------------------------
Bob: Y'know...we can crank out all these parts at a consistently high quality level with this new machinery. And there's people that want something just a little bit different from our regular models. So why don't we let them mix & match their choice of components. Many are already doing it for themselves so there's a definite market there. And we have excess capacity on those new wood milling machines. Part of the day they just sit there.
Andy: But wouldn't we have to assemble it for them? Why not just sell them all the parts.
Bob: Well...we have to assemble our own product anyway. And we already do different versions of everything we make, so what difference should that make? The assemblers don't care if it's going to a specific customer - or on a palette of 100 going to Guitar Center. They take pride in their work and do it right regardless. And we're selling parts already so that market segment is taken care of.
Andy: So it would be like getting a custom guitar?
Bob: Oh man! Don't say "custom guitar." We have the Custom Shop for that sort of thing. We don't want to cannibalize our own business there! So nix on the word 'custom.' Besides, we won't be offering them every option we have available. That would get way too complicated. We'll basically give em' a few really nice choices in things like necks, bodies, and electronics. Three or four each at most. And a half dozen or so finish choices cherry picked from the most popular finishes we usually do. We can schedule those special orders in at the end of our regular production runs in the paint shop if we do it that way. The finisher won't even have to clean their spray gun first.
Andy: But if it's custom...but it's not really custom...
Bob: Stop saying the word custom please! The Custom Shop does custom. Period.
Andy: So what do we call it? Special order?
Bob: Nah! Not sexy enough. Lacks that special frisson we're trying to generate with this concept. Any ideas anybody?
Jennifer: How about calling it <meaningful pause>... The Design Experience!
Bob: I like it!
Andy: Except the customers won't actually be designing anything...
Jennifer: That's why we should call it "an experience" and come down hard on that. Because it's not like you're doing actual design. But you get to feel sort of like you are. It's really a perception thing. And personal perception is 99% of what constitutes reality for most people.
Andy: I'm still a little confused.
Bob: I'm not. Get Sam from production in here. We can refine and tweak things down the road if we need to. I want to roll with this baby!
----------------------
Which brings us back to the question of what it is Fender is actually selling here. If what you're saying is correct, the unique sales proposition Fender is making to the customer is their name on that decal they put on the headstock.
That almost makes sense. Otherwise (ignoring the bozos that can't properly assemble a guitar from parts) there's really no difference between what Fender and anybody else is doing with this. Except maybe offering the customer fewer options?
To me that seems almost like the Wizard of Oz: That bass of yours is absolutely perfect for you and sounds like a dream... but the only thing lacking is - a proper decal!
While we're at it? At what? I thought we were having a discussion. I didn't realize I was being given a lecture and a scolding. Sorry for not picking up on that earlier.
And I'm neither being ludicrous (good word!) nor insulting. I'm making a legitimate observation within the larger context of what was said before. If you choose to interpret it as being insulting or silly so be it. But if Vinnie Fodera or Joe Lauricella (who is that btw?) had cause to feel somehow insulted, wouldn't it be their prerogative to call me on it rather than yours?
Hmm...maybe I'm not the only one here that allegedly needs to get over something?
Yeah. I know that. You know that. We all know that.
It's an obvious typo caused by me staring too long at a tiny iPhone screen and not remembering to turn off it's overly presumptuous auto-correct spelling feature. I'd give you a prize for spotting it. But somebody else already did. And it's since been corrected in my earlier post. But thank you just the same.
Happy now?
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You get a little fabric love heart to shove inside the electrics bay* before they screw the cover down
.*That's what I'm gonna call it, unless you guys know otherwise
.You obviously have a hard time managing reader expectations because it seemed from your first post and your continued rants, that you believe that Fender is misleading folks by misrepresenting their services. Ergo - deceiving or, as I said, duping the customers.
You maintain that a person using the American Design Experience isn't designing anything. Frankly, that is your opinion...choosing the color scheme, hardware and accessories is absolutely and aspect of the final design of an instrument. You don't have to be an inventor or engineer to design an aesthetic, all you need is personal preference and a list of choices.
Why do some folks get so bent out of shape when we criticize Fender's business practices? We're armchair CEOs. It's what we do here on TB and we're very, very good at it. We've could make Fender billions of dollars if they would just listen to us.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
If you want a Fender, buy a Fender. If you want something Fender isn't offering, you don't want a Fender. That's like saying "I want a Ford, but I want it with pink paint, and with the chrome bumpers they offered in 1962" - it ain't happening.
No, they're not. That's the whole point. You are correct about the market segment that has existed in their shadow for decades. But does the Design Experience take advantage of that market? No. There is only one small subset of people who will ever buy anything from Fender via the Design Experience (well, two, if you include stupid people) -- musicians who love Fender and Fender parts and want a Fender instrument, and know exactly which parts they want, and can find all those parts within the limited selection offered within the Design Experience, and are willing to pay extra to get those parts.
It is hardly "taking advantage" of the existing market when (A) the variety of parts available from Fender pales in comparison to the variety of parts available from companies that actually do take advantage of that market segment, and (B) Fender doesn't even offer the full complement of parts available within their own walls right now. I don't know why some people view it as an acceptable answer, when objections like these are raised, to effectively say "If you want an instrument using parts Fender has but doesn't offer in the Design Experience, just go to the Custom Shop." They are already charging a couple hundred dollars extra in the Design Experience to get what limited parts combinations the offer there, and we're supposed to pay a couple thousand dollars extra just to get a slightly-broader-but-still-limited range of options?
It's beyond my comprehension how some people can actually think it is a reasonable argument to buy a bass with a bunch of options I don't really want, because the resale value is likely to be higher than a bass made of options I do really want. Is that what Fender is counting on?
Honestly, I can't tell if Fender's decision to limit their Design Experience options to such pathetic levels is the result of arrogance or stupidity. But what I can say with certainty is that the Design Experience is decidedly not taking advantage of a market segment that has existed in their shadow for decades.
That statement is not rational. You just want a special Ford - having a pink VW for example won't satisfy you. If you want something Fender isn't offering in their current production line, there is a solution to your problem; that is, Fender Custom Shop.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
No - people want something that Fender is not currently producing - both as to options and colors. Exactly what I brought up. Yes, you can go Custom Shop.
I don't understand the complaining - Fender has models (probably too many). If you don't want what they offer, then by definition, you don't want a Fender.
I continue to disagree - it is not a boolean statement. Fender is not only their production line, I consider their Custom Shop to be a part of Fender. If the bass/guitar you want cannot be offered by Fender (Production Line + Custom Shop) by any means, yes, then and only then you don't want a Fender. If you can get exactly what you want through Fender's Custom Shop but don't have the cash for it, you can't afford that particular Fender - but that doesn't mean you don't want a Fender in the first place.
You're not building a "custom" bass. Any custom shop will make you anything you want - for the right price, of course. The fender design experience is so you can have an American standard the way you want it within limitations of cost. Like many other have said before, go to warmoth or carvin for a cheaper custom build.
I don't see it that way, unless you consider five models to be too many. They have the Precision, Jazz, Jaguar, Mustang, and Dimension. Of those, two have been selected for the Design Experience. I view that as a reasonable choice, since the vast majority of their bass business involves those two models. Everything beyond that is just parts and paint.
