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Fender Lame-o American design experience Fail

If you want a Fender, buy a Fender. If you want something Fender isn't offering, you don't want a Fender. That's like saying "I want a Ford, but I want it with pink paint, and with the chrome bumpers they offered in 1962" - it ain't happening.

Parts bass using designs, technology and materials that haven't changed in decades ≠ automobile with designs, technology and materials that change yearly.

Guitar - car analogies rarely work.

All has been stated numerous times in this thread, the parts options are there in the factory, right now. Paint options are really no big deal if they charge to cover the labor involved. Fender has just chose to take a gorrd idea and do a half-assed implementation. Yeah, if we don't like it, go elsewhere - simple solution. But the criticism is still justified.
 
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I don't see it that way, unless you consider five models to be too many. They have the Precision, Jazz, Jaguar, Mustang, and Dimension. Of those, two have been selected for the Design Experience. I view that as a reasonable choice, since the vast majority of their bass business involves those two models. Everything beyond that is just parts and paint.

Last I checked, Fender had at least 18 Ps, Js, and Strats each. That's insane.
 
IMO, Fender Custom Shop and Fender are two different companies. When someone says they want a "Fender", they are not talking Custom, they are talking about what they can order from Sweetwater or a music store. Fender Custom Shop is just that - custom.
Fair point, except they are, of course, the same company. Different divisions would be a better analogy.
 
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Last I checked, Fender had at least 18 Ps, Js, and Strats each. That's insane.
What's insane about it? Looking through the Jazz basses, I count five different body types (which includes 5-string and lefty versions) with three different pickup routes available, three types of bridges, two types of tuners (one of which has two color options), etc. The whole point of having a mix-&-match design is to be able to mix and match. Is it really that difficult or insane for Fender to put together many basses using essentially the same components, but getting them from different bins in accordance with a checklist?

And if it is not difficult or insane for Fender to be able to offer many different specific versions of the same basic model, why is it unreasonable to expect them to mix and match a broader selection of their available parts and paint, since they are charging extra for that privilege anyway?
 
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Fair point, except they are, of course, the same company. Different divisions would be a better analogy.
I think you understand my point. You can't compare the custom shop to the off the rack stuff.

What's insane about it? Looking through the Jazz basses, I count five different body types (which includes 5-string and lefty versions) with three different pickup routes available, three types of bridges, two types of tuners (one of which has two color options), etc. The whole point of having a mix-&-match design is to be able to mix and match. Is it really that difficult or insane for Fender to put together many basses using essentially the same components, but getting them from different bins in accordance with a checklist?

And if it is not difficult or insane for Fender to be able to offer many different specific versions of the same basic model, why is it unreasonable to expect them to mix and match a broader selection of their available parts and paint, since they are charging extra for that privilege anyway?

Because the more they do this, the more stock they have to have. Again, Fender is not a custom shop - they don't built to order - you order to what they build.

I agree that the Design Experience was oversold (and I think it is a pile of PR, and nothing more). But the fewer models they offer, the cheaper then can build up stock, and should be able to build and sell better quality for less money - think Five Guys over McDonalds. Do a few things, and do it well.
 
Because the more they do this, the more stock they have to have. Again, Fender is not a custom shop - they don't built to order - you order to what they build.

I agree that the Design Experience was oversold (and I think it is a pile of PR, and nothing more). But the fewer models they offer, the cheaper then can build up stock, and should be able to build and sell better quality for less money - think Five Guys over McDonalds. Do a few things, and do it well.

I agree with you about the pile of PR. But the whole point of the Design Experience is to put together a "personalized" bass, to "turn your own vision into reality", and that means they DO build to order, to an extent. Your Five Guys example is a great one, but not for the reasons you think. They have a certain number of burgers on the menu, but your choice of extras is only limited by what they have in the restaurant, and you can have any combination of them your heart desires, and they don't charge any more until you want extra meat or cheese.

Fender allows themselves 90 days for a Design Experience build. That means they don't have to keep any extra stock of anything on-hand. The order just goes in the que, and then the Design Experience body just gets included in the next run of blue paint, and assembled using parts from the next shipment, etc.
 
You obviously have a hard time managing reader expectations because it seemed from your first post and your continued rants, that you believe that Fender is misleading folks by misrepresenting their services. Ergo - deceiving or, as I said, duping the customers.

You maintain that a person using the American Design Experience isn't designing anything. Frankly, that is your opinion...choosing the color scheme, hardware and accessories is absolutely and aspect of the final design of an instrument. You don't have to be an inventor or engineer to design an aesthetic, all you need is personal preference and a list of choices.

@Double E - Ok, this is starting to get funny now.

I'll just add a few more things and then bow out of this discussion because I've already said everything I have to say on the actual topic.

A) On the subject of my so-called "continued rants."

You may want to look up the actual definition of the word 'rant' (and especially what it means when it's applied to posting on the Internet) before you throw it at somebody here.

inigo-montoya_that-word.jpg



B) Again, I never once said Fender was misrepresenting their Design Experience offering. Nor have I accused (or ever thought) that they were engaged or attempting to engage in "deceiving" or "duping" their customers. Those are your words ergo your interpretation. Not mine.

C) I don't think Leo Fender (or much anybody else who claims to have legitimately designed something) would consider picking things from a list to be anything remotely like the process designers go through when they're actually designing things. Leo certainly didn't.

Note: as far as "designing an aesthetic" goes, I have no idea what the point you're trying to make is - nor even a single clue what it is you're saying. Are you talking about design aesthetics? Because if so, I can't see how that applies to picking options from a list, no matter how hard I try. Visual or design aesthetics certainly do apply to the process of product design. But as far as I understand the term you don't just sit down and "design an aesthetic." (A good paper on that can be found [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] if you want to explore some of the more current thinking on the subject.)

D) I appreciate your calling attention to the fact that what I've previously posted is "frankly" my opinion. I'm in complete agreement with you on that point since I never thought what I said was anything else. Nor would it ever be taken as anything but my own personal opinion. Which is something I stated in my original and second posting if you'll recall. (That little "Or so it seems to me." is sort of the giveaway.)

I do like to think the opinions I expressed were reasonably well thought out, free from any obvious factual errors, and contained no blatant misrepresentations of fact - or other people's words. (Which is a bit more than I can say for some of the responses it got back.)

I will, however, agree with you I may have done a poor job in managing my own reader's expectations. Or some readers at least. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I do tend to write the way I'm thinking - rather than think about how to write something. I'll have to pay more attention to that going forward and try to do a better job next time.

Later!:)
 
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Ok, this is starting to get funny now.

I'll just add a few more things and then bow out of this discussion because I've already said everything I have to say on the actual topic.

A) On the subject of my so-called "continued rants."

You may want to look up the actual definition of the word 'rant' (and especially what it means when it's applied to posting on the Internet) before you throw it at somebody here.

inigo-montoya_that-word.jpg



B) Again, I never once said Fender was misrepresenting their Design Experience offering. Nor have I accused (or ever thought) that they were engaged or attempting to engage in "deceiving" or "duping" their customers. Those are your words ergo your interpretation. Not mine.

C) I don't think Leo Fender (or much anybody else who claims to have legitimately designed something) would consider picking things from a list to be anything remotely like the process designers go through when they're actually designing things. Leo certainly didn't.

Note: as far as "designing an aesthetic" goes, I have no idea what the point you're trying to make is - nor even a single clue what it is you're saying. Are you talking about design aesthetics? Because if so, I can't see how that applies to picking options from a list, no matter how hard I try. Visual or design aesthetics certainly do apply to the process of product design. But as far as I understand the term you don't just sit down and "design an aesthetic." (A good paper on that can be found [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] if you want to explore some of the more current thinking on the subject.)

D) I appreciate your calling attention to the fact that what I've previously posted is "frankly" my opinion. I'm in complete agreement with you on that point since I never thought what I said was anything else. Nor would it ever be taken as anything but my own personal opinion. Which is something I stated in my original and second posting if you'll recall. (That little "Or so it seems to me." is sort of the giveaway.)

I do like to think the opinions I expressed were reasonably well thought out, free from any obvious factual errors, and contained no blatant misrepresentations of fact - or other people's words. (Which is a bit more than I can say for some of the responses it got back.)

I will, however, agree with you I may have done a poor job in managing my own reader's expectations. Or some readers at least. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I do tend to write the way I'm thinking - rather than think about how to write something. I'll have to pay more attention to that going forward and try to do a better job next time.

Later!:)
Wow, and here I thought all along you were posting opinions you plagiarized from someone else! :roflmao:

"Come now, we are men of action, lies do not become us!"
"Well said, sir!" (thud)
:laugh:
 
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You're not building a "custom" bass. Any custom shop will make you anything you want - for the right price, of course. The fender design experience is so you can have an American standard the way you want it within limitations of cost. Like many other have said before, go to warmoth or carvin for a cheaper custom build.
Point taken, and I'd like someday to own a five string red jazz bass with a black perilod pick guard.
 
@Double E - Ok, this is starting to get funny now.

I'll just add a few more things and then bow out of this discussion because I've already said everything I have to say on the actual topic.

A) On the subject of my so-called "continued rants."

You may want to look up the actual definition of the word 'rant' (and especially what it means when it's applied to posting on the Internet) before you throw it at somebody here.

inigo-montoya_that-word.jpg



B) Again, I never once said Fender was misrepresenting their Design Experience offering. Nor have I accused (or ever thought) that they were engaged or attempting to engage in "deceiving" or "duping" their customers. Those are your words ergo your interpretation. Not mine.

C) I don't think Leo Fender (or much anybody else who claims to have legitimately designed something) would consider picking things from a list to be anything remotely like the process designers go through when they're actually designing things. Leo certainly didn't.

Note: as far as "designing an aesthetic" goes, I have no idea what the point you're trying to make is - nor even a single clue what it is you're saying. Are you talking about design aesthetics? Because if so, I can't see how that applies to picking options from a list, no matter how hard I try. Visual or design aesthetics certainly do apply to the process of product design. But as far as I understand the term you don't just sit down and "design an aesthetic." (A good paper on that can be found [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] if you want to explore some of the more current thinking on the subject.)

D) I appreciate your calling attention to the fact that what I've previously posted is "frankly" my opinion. I'm in complete agreement with you on that point since I never thought what I said was anything else. Nor would it ever be taken as anything but my own personal opinion. Which is something I stated in my original and second posting if you'll recall. (That little "Or so it seems to me." is sort of the giveaway.)

I do like to think the opinions I expressed were reasonably well thought out, free from any obvious factual errors, and contained no blatant misrepresentations of fact - or other people's words. (Which is a bit more than I can say for some of the responses it got back.)

I will, however, agree with you I may have done a poor job in managing my own reader's expectations. Or some readers at least. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I do tend to write the way I'm thinking - rather than think about how to write something. I'll have to pay more attention to that going forward and try to do a better job next time.

Later!:)
Seems to match exactly your posting style:
upload_2015-7-8_14-55-55.png
 
B) Again, I never once said Fender was misrepresenting their Design Experience offering. Nor have I accused (or ever thought) that they were engaged or attempting to engage in "deceiving" or "duping" their customers. Those are your words ergo your interpretation. Not mine.

You may not have used the same terms exactly, but it is unmistakable that the spirit of your post is that you feel that Fender's use of the word design in not applicable and therefore misleading. I doubt anyone reading your post would disagree with that interpretation.

C) I don't think Leo Fender (or much anybody else who claims to have legitimately designed something) would consider picking things from a list to be anything remotely like the process designers go through when they're actually designing things. Leo certainly didn't.

Note: as far as "designing an aesthetic" goes, I have no idea what the point you're trying to make is - nor even a single clue what it is you're saying. Are you talking about design aesthetics? Because if so, I can't see how that applies to picking options from a list, no matter how hard I try. Visual or design aesthetics certainly do apply to the process of product design. But as far as I understand the term you don't just sit down and "design an aesthetic." (A good paper on that can be found [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] if you want to explore some of the more current thinking on the subject.)

I am attempting to point out that your narrow and, IMHO, incorrect definition of "design". I don't think that word means what you think it means!

I'll go back to the dictionary for that:
upload_2015-7-8_15-7-27.png