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Fender Lame-o American design experience Fail

#221
MarkoYYZ said:
It's like if Ford told you that your Fusion can't be made in CAR, when they have a CAR Mustang sitting right in the dealer's showroom.

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See, this is exactly the thinking that I am talking about! Sure the Mustang is available in CAR, but thinking that the Fusion should also be available in CAR, when the Fusion is made in a totally different factory half a country away is just plain wrong!
 
#222
mdogs said:
See, this is exactly the thinking that I am talking about! Sure the Mustang is available in CAR, but thinking that the Fusion should also be available in CAR, when the Fusion is made in a totally different factory half a country away is just plain wrong!
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First off, we know that Fender's DE products will be made in the same factory. Not an issue. Secondly, it's. just. a. can. of. paint. The factory location is irrelevant. No special tooling or production line requirements are needed like other differences might require (frames, motors, etc...). It's not like asking for a 5.0L Mustang motor in the Fusion.

Speaking in definitive terms like "just plain wrong" is very small minded thinking IMO. What's the point of Fender investing any time or energy into the Design Experience at all if the slightest bit of inconvenience - which they are charging extra for - makes everyone throw their arms up and say "screw that, it's too hard!" (when it's really not).
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#225
MarkoYYZ said:
Hah, thanks.

Others do have a point about not dictating to Fender how to run their business, I'm just illustrating that once you spend the money to implement the Design Experience in the first place - which they obviously have done - then limiting the options to the extent that they have is kind of counterintuitive.
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@MarkoXYZ - Good point - even though we both know nobody here is dictating how Fender should run their company. Because nobody here can. And not that it would make any difference if anybody thought they were regardless.

Fender is free to do what it wants to do. Without needing to clear it with anybody either. So when people start getting all rah-rah, and "how dare you!," and "guys like you are the whole problem with America," something is seriously wrong somewhere. Especially when Fender has repeatedly stated it welcomes all comments, criticism, and suggestions. And Fender doesn't insist you approach on bended knee, or with due homage towards Leo Fender's great contribution to the world of music when you do so. Got a problem? Got a suggestion? Think we can do better? Tell us what's on your mind! seems to be how they operate.

Nothing an individual can say can ever be a problem for them because it provides them with important feedback. And they can always ignore the crazies or people who are being unreasonable. Because Fender is under no obligation to do anything. Even though they are also smart enough to know no company can just completely ignore actual and prospective customers and go do whatever it likes. And that's something some self-appointed Fender apologists don't seem to understand.

Oh well. These days a lot of people seem to feel the need to become righteously indignant at the drop of a hat. Even about things nobody is actually saying - or even suggesting. Seems there are a lot of people who just can't resist introducing the 'straw man' plus other logical fallacies along with propaganda techniques into a discussion. Even if they're not consciously aware they're doing it. You see that happening everywhere on the web these days.


So it goes.:cool:
 
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#226
EclecticLady said:
Random thought: I wonder if they would have more of a hit offering something like this with CV/VM Squier-level parts. Semi-customized and not $1000+ out of the gate.
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This.

Increased site traffic and sales volume would give them a better statistical sampling of what the market is looking for, and by opening up the options, they might find untapped areas of demand.

For instance, if I could get the reverse Jaguar in a 34" scale, I might have to bite -- just because it would look so much like an Entwistle "Fender-Bird".
 
#227
MarkoYYZ said:
Hyperbole is a pretty weak way to make a strong response.

"every whim" is not what's being suggested here AT ALL.
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You guys should listen to yourselves whining about the most superfluous, inconsequential tempest-in-a-teapot. This thread has gotten so far away from any sense of reality, that at this point a little hyperbole may actually help some of you to snap out of the fugue you seem to be living in.

I mean really? I can't get a Fusion in the same color as a Mustang? The Fender DE plaything doesn't please me? Outrage!

If that's not whimsical I don't know what is. (not that there's anything wrong with that) ;)
 
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#228
You guys should listen to yourselves whining about the most superfluous, inconsequential tempest-in-a-teapot. This thread has gotten so far away from any sense of reality, that at this point a little hyperbole may actually help some of you to snap out of the fugue you seem to be living in.

I mean really? I can't get a Fusion in the same color as a Mustang? The Fender DE plaything doesn't please me? Outrage!

If that's not whimsical I don't know what is. (not that there's anything wrong with that) ;)
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@ MarkoXYZ - This (above) is an example what I meant by introducing logical fallacies into a thread. There's straw man, ad hominem, petitio principii ...:laugh:
 
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#229
40Hz said:
@marko - Good point - even though we both know nobody here is dictating how Fender should run their company. Because nobody here can. And not that it would make any difference if anybody thought they were regardless.

Fender is free to do what it wants to do. Without needing to clear it with anybody either. So when people start getting all rah-rah, and "how dare you!," and "guys like you are the whole problem with America," something is seriously wrong somewhere. Especially when Fender has repeatedly stated it welcomes all comments, criticism, and suggestions. And Fender doesn't insist you approach on bended knee, or with due homage towards Leo Fender's great contribution to the world of music when you do so. Got a problem? Got a suggestion? Think we can do better? Tell us what's on your mind! seems to be how they operate.

Nothing an individual can say can ever be a problem for them because it provides them with important feedback. And they can always ignore the crazies or people who are being unreasonable. Because Fender is under no obligation to do anything. Even though they are also smart enough to know no company can just completely ignore actual and prospective customers and go do whatever it likes. And that's something some self-appointed Fender apologists don't seem to understand.

Oh well. These days a lot of people seem to feel the need to become righteously indignant at the drop of a hat. Even about things nobody is actually saying - or even suggesting. Seems there are a lot of people who just can't resist introducing the 'straw man' plus other logical fallacies along with propaganda techniques into a discussion. Even if they're not consciously aware they're doing it. You see that happening everywhere on the web these days.


So it goes.:cool:
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This whole post is righteously indignant!
 
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#231
I once again refer to the dictionary...

upload_2015-7-10_15-4-30.png


This describes the behavior of the OP and many others complaining about the unfairness of Fender's services, and yes it has resulted in many more indignant responses by others...including myself.
 
#237
I think I only saw one (or at most two) posts that brought up anything even faintly resembling a question about the issue of "fairness." Most of the negative responses on that topic merely claimed somebody was crying "unfair!" - but didn't refer back to a specific post or posts. Instead, they only gave responses to their to their own assertions that most if not all the people who were questioning Fender's implementation of the DE were also saying that the DE was somehow unfair.

That's called a straw man argument. It's when you create a non-existent opponent with a weak argument; then easily shoot them down - and then - claim victory.

------------------------

Example:

John: I think we need to reform US immigration laws.

Mary: Oh! So you'd prefer to see children die because we deported them back to places they were attempting to escape from in order to lead a normal life here? Well I don't think anybody with a shred of humanity and decency would go along with you on that!

John: I didn't say anything about deporting children...

Mary: Yes you did! That's what all you people who supposedly just want to 'reform' immigration are trying to do. Kill helpless and innocent little children!

Crowd: You tell 'em Mary!
 
#239
I liked it better when you were just defending your position and trying to prove your point rather than analyzing other's statements and breaking them down with this annoying pseudo-intellectual dissection of arguments.

If you are referring to being accused of saying Fender is misleading their customers ... you were indeed implying just that. I don't see how any other interpretation is possible, so to that the straw man principle doesn't apply anyway.

[/indignant rant]
 
#240
Double E said:
Blah blah blah...I love how you are now applying internet argument terminology. Don't you realize that calling someone out for the straw man fallacy is in fact committing the straw man fallacy.
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*Sigh!*

I don't even know where to begin responding to that one. Are you being serious - or just trolling right now?

If you're being serious right now, you seriously don't understand what a straw man is. Hint: it has nothing to do with "Internet terminology" (whatever you mean by that), nor did it originate there. It's actually been around long before there even was an Internet. (You really do need to start checking your facts a little better.)

If you'd like to learn more about things like rhetoric, drop me a PM and I'll be happy to send you some links, including one to a very good (and free) course on how to construct an intelligent argument.

If you're just trolling, that's cool too. But you still might like those links.

Later!
 

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