Fender Lame-o American design experience Fail

[40Hz]

Seems to match exactly your posting style:
View attachment 648182

Seriously?

You see it as impassioned? Shouting? Wild? Angry?

Amazing. Is that how you usually read something you might not agree with or want to hear?

Can't help you there. Sorry.

Suggestion. It's getting old. Why don't we both call it a day before we start annoying the others trying to have a conversation here? I'll leave you to put the last word in and call it your 'win' if you're the sort that feels the need.

It's been real.

Do svidaniya

 

[mdogs]

As long as you don't call it pizza (although I like your deep dish). Come to New Haven and I'll show you what real pizza tastes like.

drool

Well, I have been to New Haven a number of times, can't imagine that I ever had pizza though. I have a had a standing rule for probably 35 years, don't eat pizza outside of Chicago. The problem you have is that your credibility is shot because you referenced 5 Guys vs. McDonald's, as if 5 Guys is better than McDonald's.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Well, I have been to New Haven a number of times, can't imagine that I ever had pizza though. I have a had a standing rule for probably 35 years, don't eat pizza outside of Chicago. The problem you have is that your credibility is shot because you referenced 5 Guys vs. McDonald's, as if 5 Guys is better than McDonald's.

Google "Pepe's" "pizza" " New Haven". Be prepared to wait at least an hour for a table, longer on weekends.

 

[BigBigGuy44]

Google "Pepe's" "pizza" " New Haven". Be prepared to wait at least an hour for a table, longer on weekends.

Incredibly good pizza. I like Five Guys. Not so much for the meat but for the toppings and bucket of fries.

 

[Shaunpski]

I like Five Guys.

My 15 year old son's favorite restaurant--because of the fires.

 

[BlueTalon]

Seems to match exactly your posting style:

Are you perhaps confusing 40Hz with the OP? I just read through 40Hz's posts, and didn't really see anything ranty about them. I thought he made valid points about how the words "definition" and "custom" are used, but since the scope of his observations was rather narrow, I also understand why people disagree with him about it.

The OP, on the other hand, was definitely ranty.

 

[mdogs]

Google "Pepe's" "pizza" " New Haven". Be prepared to wait at least an hour for a table, longer on weekends.

Long waits don't necessarily equate to good!!

 

[buldog5151bass]

Long waits don't necessarily equate to good!!

This one does. Thin crust, baked in coal fired oven. Their white clam pizza is fantastic.

 

[Iridescentone]

Long waits don't necessarily equate to good!!

Sure it does. If you wait long enough....even the cardboard box tastes good.

 

[Kirk Bryant]

Having just read thorough this whole thread, I believe that for the most part 40hz, blue talon, myself and several others concur on the "experience". There I finally spelled it right for the TB spelling cops. I don't always use spellcheck, sorry. It was good fun. I guess I hadn't realized how I would rile some people up with the caps. I'm sure at some point I'll buy a new Fender bass again but as so many people are modding them for themselves much along the same lines as I would do for myself I think there are and will continue to be plenty enough on the used market That I would find worth owning. Although I do currently have 2 Fender Jazz basses now, a MIM J with SD pickups, solid Brass bridge, custom old stock Tort guard and J-Retro pre., and a MIJ Power Jazz Bass Special all stock, they are both too heavy for me now with my back issues. The PJBS will be sold and the other MIM parts bass will probably be recycled into new "Custom Shop" type projects. In regards to my original post I will probably eventually just get a Sting bass inspire of my dislike for the "Stinglay" Oh and I just changed my Avatar to show one of my basses. Not the greatest shot of it but it's the genuine 60s Fender P body with Gotoh bridge, SD PU, Fender Lic. Jazz Neck, Audere 4band EQ, White Pearloid PG, all Gold hardware and a Shell Pink nitro finish with matching headstock. So as you see I have no need for the "experience" I'm just amused by the weak attempt at an opportunity to bring more buyers into the fold that might not want the run of the mill offerings that were available there. Oh and I am happy, I went to my Mindfulness, meditation and Yoga class and I am at one with world. Peace, Kirk out!

 

[MarkoYYZ]

I really don't understand the opposition that the OP has faced here either.

To carry over the burger comparison... it's like wanting to buy a cheeseburger, but being told that once you have cheese, you can't have lettuce any more - even though you can see it sitting right there. You can have bacon, but forget mayo, that only comes on the double burgers - even though you can see it sitting right there.

If all the parts are interchangeable, then there should simply be a pull down menu with the options for each item. If you're pulling down a menu for option on the bridge, there should be more than one bridge, you know?

Here's how you do it:

Body Type: 50's single coil Precision / Precision / P-J / Jazz 60s spacing / Jazz 70s spacing / (others if they like)
Body Wood: Alder / Ash
Body Finish: (however many they want in here, though some non-standard colors make sense considering the concept)
Neck Type: Precision 1.625" / Precision 1.75" / Jazz 1.5"
Fretboard: Rosewood / Rosewood w Blocks & Binding / Maple / Maple w Blocks & Binding
Headstock Finish: Natural / Black / Match Body
Pickguard: (however many they want in here)
Pickups: (however many they want in here, with the list based on the body chosen)
Electronics: Passive / Active (note preamp avail)
Hardware Bridge: Standard bent plate / Vintage 50's style / AmStd Hi Mass / Badass style Hi Mass
Hardware Tuners: Standard clover leaf / Vintage clover leaf (reverse) / Vintage lollipop / Hipshot Ultralight
Hardware Strap Buttons: Standard type / Straplocks
Hardware Finish: Chrome / Black / (brass if they like)
Strings: Rounds type 1 / Rounds type 2 / Flatwounds (however many they like)
Case: Gig Bag / Molded case / Leather hard case / Vintage Tweed
Accessories: Tool kit / Cleaning Kit / Strap

There, in 15 minutes I have created their model to work from.

(full disclosure, that took only 15 mins to type, but concede that I have worked through a similar concept fully with something else I am working on)

Fender only needs to offer the items they have in stock. There's no reason that you couldn't have 3 choices of bridges, for example, when they have at least that many already in house. There's no reason that a P or J should limit any of the finish options, though electronics and hardware would obviously have to match the chosen body type. Nobody is asking for an Aerodyne body or a heartfield neck here... just a more thorough set of the basic options.

It's an a-la-carte system, that does not complicate matters any more than the existing Design Experience already entails (aside from maybe the black hardware option).

Do these relatively standard check-box type options really need to be forced through the Custom Shop, when the Design Experience has been built specially to handle this sort of thing? If you want a flamed maple top over an ash body and a special neck profile, then you go to Custom Shop, otherwise anything that is more mix-n-match in terms of bolt-on assembly should be able to go through the Design Experience.

IMO, and all that.
.

 

[bholder]

I really don't understand the opposition that the OP has faced here either.

To carry over the burger comparison... it's like wanting to buy a cheeseburger, but being told that once you have cheese, you can't have lettuce any more - even though you can see it sitting right there. You can have bacon, but forget mayo, that only comes on the double burgers - even though you can see it sitting right there.

If all the parts are interchangeable, then there should simply be a pull down menu with the options for each item. If you're pulling down a menu for option on the bridge, there should be more than one bridge, you know?

Here's how you do it:

Body Type: 50's single coil Precision / Precision / P-J / Jazz 60s spacing / Jazz 70s spacing / (others if they like)
Body Wood: Alder / Ash
Body Finish: (however many they want in here, though some non-standard colors make sense considering the concept)
Neck Type: Precision 1.625" / Precision 1.75" / Jazz 1.5"
Fretboard: Rosewood / Rosewood w Blocks & Binding / Maple / Maple w Blocks & Binding
Headstock Finish: Natural / Black / Match Body
Pickguard: (however many they want in here)
Pickups: (however many they want in here, with the list based on the body chosen)
Electronics: Passive / Active (note preamp avail)
Hardware Bridge: Standard bent plate / Vintage 50's style / AmStd Hi Mass / Badass style Hi Mass
Hardware Tuners: Standard clover leaf / Vintage clover leaf (reverse) / Vintage lollipop / Hipshot Ultralight
Hardware Strap Buttons: Standard type / Straplocks
Hardware Finish: Chrome / Black / (brass if they like)
Strings: Rounds type 1 / Rounds type 2 / Flatwounds (however many they like)
Case: Gig Bag / Molded case / Leather hard case / Vintage Tweed
Accessories: Tool kit / Cleaning Kit / Strap

There, in 15 minutes I have created their model to work from.

(full disclosure, that took only 15 mins to type, but concede that I have worked through a similar concept fully with something else I am working on)

Fender only needs to offer the items they have in stock. There's no reason that you couldn't have 3 choices of bridges, for example, when they have at least that many already in house. There's no reason that a P or J should limit any of the finish options, though electronics and hardware would obviously have to match the chosen body type. Nobody is asking for an Aerodyne body or a heartfield neck here... just a more thorough set of the basic options.

It's an a-la-carte system, that does not complicate matters any more than the existing Design Experience already entails (aside from maybe the black hardware option).

Do these relatively standard check-box type options really need to be forced through the Custom Shop, when the Design Experience has been built specially to handle this sort of thing? If you want a flamed maple top over an ash body and a special neck profile, then you go to Custom Shop, otherwise anything that is more mix-n-match in terms of bolt-on assembly should be able to go through the Design Experience.

IMO, and all that.
.

That would be nice. Fender has chosen not to offer that. Others do. I still am not "getting it". I guess perhaps I just rather expect the marketing behavior of any large corporation to tend towards being "Lame-o".

 

[40Hz]

I really don't understand the opposition that the OP has faced here either.
.
.
.
Do these relatively standard check-box type options really need to be forced through the Custom Shop, when the Design Experience has been built specially to handle this sort of thing? If you want a flamed maple top over an ash body and a special neck profile, then you go to Custom Shop, otherwise anything that is more mix-n-match in terms of bolt-on assembly should be able to go through the Design Experience...

This!

Gets right to the point of what I was trying to say using 1/10th the words - and without getting caught up in a discussion about business philosophy too!

Hey MarkoYYZ? You're good!

 

[mdogs]

I really don't understand the opposition that the OP has faced here either.

To carry over the burger comparison... it's like wanting to buy a cheeseburger, but being told that once you have cheese, you can't have lettuce any more - even though you can see it sitting right there. You can have bacon, but forget mayo, that only comes on the double burgers - even though you can see it sitting right there.

If all the parts are interchangeable, then there should simply be a pull down menu with the options for each item. If you're pulling down a menu for option on the bridge, there should be more than one bridge, you know?

Here's how you do it:

Body Type: 50's single coil Precision / Precision / P-J / Jazz 60s spacing / Jazz 70s spacing / (others if they like)
Body Wood: Alder / Ash
Body Finish: (however many they want in here, though some non-standard colors make sense considering the concept)
Neck Type: Precision 1.625" / Precision 1.75" / Jazz 1.5"
Fretboard: Rosewood / Rosewood w Blocks & Binding / Maple / Maple w Blocks & Binding
Headstock Finish: Natural / Black / Match Body
Pickguard: (however many they want in here)
Pickups: (however many they want in here, with the list based on the body chosen)
Electronics: Passive / Active (note preamp avail)
Hardware Bridge: Standard bent plate / Vintage 50's style / AmStd Hi Mass / Badass style Hi Mass
Hardware Tuners: Standard clover leaf / Vintage clover leaf (reverse) / Vintage lollipop / Hipshot Ultralight
Hardware Strap Buttons: Standard type / Straplocks
Hardware Finish: Chrome / Black / (brass if they like)
Strings: Rounds type 1 / Rounds type 2 / Flatwounds (however many they like)
Case: Gig Bag / Molded case / Leather hard case / Vintage Tweed
Accessories: Tool kit / Cleaning Kit / Strap

There, in 15 minutes I have created their model to work from.

(full disclosure, that took only 15 mins to type, but concede that I have worked through a similar concept fully with something else I am working on)

Fender only needs to offer the items they have in stock. There's no reason that you couldn't have 3 choices of bridges, for example, when they have at least that many already in house. There's no reason that a P or J should limit any of the finish options, though electronics and hardware would obviously have to match the chosen body type. Nobody is asking for an Aerodyne body or a heartfield neck here... just a more thorough set of the basic options.

It's an a-la-carte system, that does not complicate matters any more than the existing Design Experience already entails (aside from maybe the black hardware option).

Do these relatively standard check-box type options really need to be forced through the Custom Shop, when the Design Experience has been built specially to handle this sort of thing? If you want a flamed maple top over an ash body and a special neck profile, then you go to Custom Shop, otherwise anything that is more mix-n-match in terms of bolt-on assembly should be able to go through the Design Experience.

IMO, and all that.
.

Of course, none of this takes into account what this does to the production lines at Fender, which none of us know anything about. Everything is easy when you don't have to take into account any of the details...

 

[TMARK]

Of course, none of this takes into account what this does to the production lines at Fender, which none of us know anything about. Everything is easy when you don't have to take into account any of the details...

Exactly. Things looks simple from the outside, but my experience working for a large multinational is that ANY change or "business process redesign" is incredibly difficult. It can take over a year to implement a change in process, and there are so many cooks in the kitchen who are protecting their turf that the friction created in immense. I can imagine that the design experience involves different groups: neck assembly, suppliers, IT, body assembly, paint shop, inventory management, accounting, and more IT for inventory management and accounting. The production people might have quotas and metrics they are trying to meet, and extra work painting, extra necks, final off production line assembly digs into each department's turf and affects their metrics. So there is probably plenty of resistance from the individual departments, and upper management may not be able to smooth it. Just thinking about it stresses me out.

 

[MarkoYYZ]

This!

Gets right to the point of what I was trying to say using 1/10th the words - and without getting caught up in a discussion about business philosophy too!

Hey MarkoYYZ? You're good!

Hah, thanks.

Others do have a point about not dictating to Fender how to run their business, I'm just illustrating that once you spend the money to implement the Design Experience in the first place - which they obviously have done - then limiting the options to the extent that they have is kind of counterintuitive. The whole point of the program is to give the user an assortment of options to allow them to customize their instrument uby accessing an existing catalog of standard Fender finishes and components.

It's like if Ford told you that your Fusion can't be made in CAR, when they have a CAR Mustang sitting right in the dealer's showroom.

Of course, none of this takes into account what this does to the production lines at Fender, which none of us know anything about. Everything is easy when you don't have to take into account any of the details...

Exactly. Things looks simple from the outside, but my experience working for a large multinational is that ANY change or "business process redesign" is incredibly difficult. It can take over a year to implement a change in process, and there are so many cooks in the kitchen who are protecting their turf that the friction created in immense. I can imagine that the design experience involves different groups: neck assembly, suppliers, IT, body assembly, paint shop, inventory management, accounting, and more IT for inventory management and accounting. The production people might have quotas and metrics they are trying to meet, and extra work painting, extra necks, final off production line assembly digs into each department's turf and affects their metrics. So there is probably plenty of resistance from the individual departments, and upper management may not be able to smooth it. Just thinking about it stresses me out.

Of course we're making some basic assumptions - nothing wild - but the fact that THEY HAVE ALREADY IMPLEMENTED ALL THESE SYSTEMS in order to launch the Design Experience in its current state, means that these things are no longer barriers to making the program better for the customer.

It's not like you're introducing any real disruptions to the production lines where "rush items" would disrupt the flow. The DE components would already be scheduled for production with known when cetain items will be run (ie: 3rd Monday of every month is CAR paint day). It doesn't require anything to be custom made outside of their existing "standard" products, as the options given are all items that would typically be in Fender's ongoing production cue and/or inventory. This is where the genuine Custom Shop operates, where everything is essentially "one off" and more time consuming.

For example... the DE program accumulates orders for 30 days. These are aggregated with orders that retailers are placing, and then however many LPB bodies or maple Jazz necks or high mass bridges are needed, these are added to the next production batch of those very same items which are always in the production forecast. Perhaps in takes even 120-180 days to finish the instrument - anything special ordered always comes with a lead time window - but it's really just catalog "option" shopping of stuff that they already have.

No one is asking Ford to start stocking VW rims or anything.
.

 

[TMARK]

Hah, thanks.

Others do have a point about not dictating to Fender how to run their business, I'm just illustrating that once you spend the money to implement the Design Experience in the first place - which they obviously have done - then limiting the options to the extent that they have is kind of counterintuitive. The whole point of the program is to give the user an assortment of options to allow them to customize their instrument uby accessing an existing catalog of standard Fender finishes and components.

It's like if Ford told you that your Fusion can't be made in CAR, when they have a CAR Mustang sitting right in the dealer's showroom.



Of course we're making some basic assumptions - nothing wild - but the fact that THEY HAVE ALREADY IMPLEMENTED ALL THESE SYSTEMS in order to launch the Design Experience in its current state, means that these things are no longer barriers to making the program better for the customer.

It's not like you're introducing any real disruptions to the production lines where "rush items" would disrupt the flow. The DE components would already be scheduled for production with known when cetain items will be run (ie: 3rd Monday of every month is CAR paint day). It doesn't require anything to be custom made outside of their existing "standard" products, as the options given are all items that would typically be in Fender's ongoing production cue and/or inventory. This is where the genuine Custom Shop operates, where everything is essentially "one off" and more time consuming.

For example... the DE program accumulates orders for 30 days. These are aggregated with orders that retailers are placing, and then however many LPB bodies or maple Jazz necks or high mass bridges are needed, these are added to the next production batch of those very same items which are always in the production forecast. Perhaps in takes even 120-180 days to finish the instrument - anything special ordered always comes with a lead time window - but it's really just catalog shopping of stuff that they already have.

I agree that is should be simple, but it never is. I suspect they have feet of clay due to the changes at the top. Maybe some hesitancy at putting in the time and effort, putting a neck on the line when there was uncertainty about the direction of the company. maybe they have a really crappy culture. Who knows? Perhaps they can dig in now that they have new blood, because as you've pointed out, it shouldn't be too difficult.

 

[MarkoYYZ]

I agree that is should be simple, but it never is. I suspect they have feet of clay due to the changes at the top. Maybe some hesitancy at putting in the time and effort, putting a neck on the line when there was uncertainty about the direction of the company. maybe they have a really crappy culture. Who knows? Perhaps they can dig in now that they have new blood, because as you've pointed out, it shouldn't be too difficult.

I'm actually hoping they don't drag their feet out of the clay - it leaves the door open for others to do it instead.


.

 

[gln1955]

Of course, none of this takes into account what this does to the production lines at Fender, which none of us know anything about. Everything is easy when you don't have to take into account any of the details...

True. That's why this kind of thing requires a significant bump in price compared to the regular production line bass. Just not a Custom Shop bump in price, because you're not getting the Custom Shop attention to detail. premium wood selection, etc. Another thing to consider is that if this became the dominant way people buy MIA Fenders, there would be an economy of scale in the process that should lower that needed price bump.

 

[Stevorebob]

The Fender Design Experience does not work for me, but I can't see any reason to get worked up about it. I'll just get what I want another way.