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Fender Lame-o American design experience Fail

#241
40Hz said:
*Sigh!*

I don't even know where to begin responding to that one. Are you being serious - or just trolling right now?

If you're being serious right now, you seriously don't understand what a straw man is. Hint: it has nothing to do with "Internet terminology" (whatever you mean by that), nor did it originate there. It's actually been around long before there even was an Internet. (You really do need to start checking your facts a little better.)

If you'd like to learn more about things like rhetoric, drop me a PM and I'll be happy to send you some links, including one to a very good (and free) course on how to construct an intelligent argument.

If you're just trolling, that's cool too. But you still might like those links.

Later!
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The straw man theory is the most popular way to try and win an internet argugment...just claim that the other guy is putting words in your mouth...boom...straw man. I know it didn't originate on the internet but literally no regular person knew about the term until the internet came around. Now it seems like every time two people disagree it's the straw man's fault.

Forget about trying to actually rationalize your argument or *gasp* admit you are wrong...or better yet, agree to disagree. There's a term that's popular on the internet but is lost in principle.
 
#242
MarkoYYZ said:
First off, we know that Fender's DE products will be made in the same factory. Not an issue. Secondly, it's. just. a. can. of. paint. The factory location is irrelevant. No special tooling or production line requirements are needed like other differences might require (frames, motors, etc...). It's not like asking for a 5.0L Mustang motor in the Fusion.

Speaking in definitive terms like "just plain wrong" is very small minded thinking IMO. What's the point of Fender investing any time or energy into the Design Experience at all if the slightest bit of inconvenience - which they are charging extra for - makes everyone throw their arms up and say "screw that, it's too hard!" (when it's really not).
.
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My point is, you or anyone else on this board had any idea what is easy or difficult when it comes to Fender's production. If you really believe it is "just a can of paint," I understand why you don't get it.,
 
#243
Double E said:
I liked it better when you were just defending your position and trying to prove your point rather than analyzing other's statements and breaking them down with this annoying pseudo-intellectual dissection of arguments.

If you are referring to being accused of saying Fender is misleading their customers ... you were indeed implying just that. I don't see how any other interpretation is possible, so to that the straw man principle doesn't apply anyway.

[/indignant rant]
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Nothing pseudo or intellectual about it. I'm saying that what you're saying doesn't hold water. It's called an intelligent argument. Or an adult conversation. Grown-ups don't feel threatened by things like that.

And again - I was implying? Says who? Show me what you're seeing to support that other than your own take which you admit it's impossible for you to see any other way. I don't see where anybody else thinks I'm saying Fender is misleading people. You seem to be doing a mental mash-up of a few other poster's comments with my own and attributing your misunderstanding to me.

Sorry. Your argument doesn't hold water, and your accusation doesn't apply to anything I actually said - or "inferred." If I thought they were I would have said so. I'm not in the habit of pulling punches when it comes to things like that. And I also didn't think Fender was doing anything along those lines to begin with - so I didn't. If me calling you on that complete mischaracterization - and saying you're talking through your hat right now is a pseudo-intellectual dissection of your 'arguments' - I'll only dispute the "pseudo" characterization. Stop trying to put words into my mouth. It doesn't work.
 
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#247
40Hz said:
*Sigh!*

I don't even know where to begin responding to that one. Are you being serious - or just trolling right now?

If you're being serious right now, you seriously don't understand what a straw man is. Hint: it has nothing to do with "Internet terminology" (whatever you mean by that), nor did it originate there. It's actually been around long before there even was an Internet. (You really do need to start checking your facts a little better.)

If you'd like to learn more about things like rhetoric, drop me a PM and I'll be happy to send you some links, including one to a very good (and free) course on how to construct an intelligent argument.

If you're just trolling, that's cool too. But you still might like those links.

Later!
Click to expand...

Good one!

A False Dilemma, Ad Hominems, couched in a Red Herring distraction, all headed for a Circular Argument.

Bravo! ;)

53c42aa8-44ad-4ff5-87fd-c23e791d6ef2_zpsnbil9nbu.gif
 
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#248
@40Hz...from your post:
40Hz said:
2) From a pure marketing, company credibility, and "customer experience" perspective, take extreme care to be sure what you are offering can't be misinterpreted or misconstrued insofar as it's humanly possible. Because while you may well not be violating any laws, having disgruntled and unhappy customers is never in the best interests of the company or its business. This includes not having your own definitions for commonly used and understood terms such as "free" or "guaranteed for life."
Click to expand...

In the next quote, you identify the term you feel they are misusing in the way described above.

40Hz said:
Not to knock Fender (too much :rolleyes: ) but in the case of their "design" offering, they're really not letting you 'design' anything.
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I still contend that choosing the color combination, body style, neck and hardware specification is an aspect of design so on that we may be at odds. However, regardless of whether you and I agree on anything, it is perfectly clear that you think that Fender's use of this term is misleading even though you did not use that exact word. Will anyone disagree?

40Hz said:
In short - you get to have them bolt together the equivalent of a FrankenBass or FrankenGuitar. Even the 'custom' shop is a bit of a misnomer in that regard. It's 'tinker-toy manufacturing.' Not custom crafting.
Click to expand...

Here is another point you make that, yes, implies that you feel Fender is using the wrong terminology and potentially misleading their customers.
 
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#249
Double E said:
The straw man theory is the most popular way to try and win an internet argugment...just claim that the other guy is putting words in your mouth...boom...straw man. I know it didn't originate on the internet but literally no regular person knew about the term until the internet came around.
Click to expand...

Um...not true. It used to be taught during sophomore year in high school composition classes in most school systems in this great land of ours. Even if people promptly forgot about it after their final exam. Apparently they stopped teaching it somewhere along the line if what you are saying about "no regular person" is true.

Now it seems like every time two people disagree it's the straw man's fault.
Click to expand...

You and I must spend the bulk of our time in very different places on the Internet if that's the case.

Forget about trying to actually rationalize your argument or *gasp* admit you are wrong...or better yet, agree to disagree. There's a term that's popular on the internet but is lost in principle.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to rationalize my argument. I'm making one. (Maybe 'rationalize' is another definition you need to look up?)

I'm also a little confused. Are you offering me some sort of plea deal here? As far as "admitting you are wrong goes," provide me with a convincing and logical argument (even a "pseudo-intellectual" one) and I'll consider it. Until then, my original position stands. Feel free to disagree if you like. You don't need my permission to do so.
 
#253
Iridescentone said:
You guys should listen to yourselves whining about the most superfluous, inconsequential tempest-in-a-teapot.

I mean really? I can't get a Fusion in the same color as a Mustang?
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My girl, familiar with Talk Bass through my recounting of the shenanigans here, sat me down and showed me a chat site dedicated to shoes and the women who love them.
The topics were uncannily similar to Talk Bass: which products are the best, where to get them, wish-list colors, shopping on the internet, how many is too many, feeling indignant
when someone disses your preferred manufactured item of preference...
Parallel universe?
 
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#258
gln1955 said:
Ya know what happens? The marketing people at Fender read things like the above exchange on TB and just shake their head and say "Screw 'em all. Give 'em burst and tort P basses and be done with it."
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LOL! I couldn't say I'd blame them if they did.

Fortunately for me, I really like their burst with tortoiseshell. So no worries.
 

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